Need Help! Unit trust investment

[naro]

For so many years you're still talking about the same thing. I buy online using poems account, no such sale charges.

https://www.poems.com.sg/utzerofees/?utm_source=sem&utm_campaign=sem

Spoiler

check with you, does selling the unit trust incur any sales charge?

 

[antonpoh]

check with you, does selling the unit trust incur any sales charge?

If you do it online, no sale charges.

Last time I get my broker to sell all my UT in 2007 also no sale charges. Nowadays I do everything myself.

 

[final1]

It is true that some places charge 5% sale charges for unit trust investments.

It is also true that some places charge 0%.

It is factually incorrect to blanket say that everywhere charges 5% sale charge for unit trusts. It depends on the bank or brokerage. Anyone who says this is ignorant and uninformed.

 

[BBCWatcher]

It is true that some places charge 5% sale charges for unit trust investments.
It is also true that some places charge 0%.

Yes, all true. However, as a reminder, Jisoo87 said, "He’s a RM from a bank." Would you like to bet even one dollar that this Relationship Manager is going to waive the whole sales charge?

And, "So what?" All the unit trusts mentioned in this thread have high management expenses and, usually, are foreign tax inefficient. If someone wants to nominate a genuinely low cost and tax efficient unit trust sold in Singapore for consideration, great, name it. (I keep an open mind. Where's that unicorn?) But nobody has named one yet.

 

[antonpoh]

Yes, all true. However, as a reminder, Jisoo87 said, "He’s a RM from a bank." Would you like to bet even one dollar that this Relationship Manager is going to waive the whole sales charge?

And, "So what?" All the unit trusts mentioned in this thread have high management expenses and, usually, are foreign tax inefficient. If someone wants to nominate a genuinely low cost and tax efficient unit trust sold in Singapore for consideration, great, name it. (I keep an open mind. Where's that unicorn?) But nobody has named one yet.

My guess is you forgot the one i post in Sep 2014. You have the same comment about the sale charges.

I think it was 'eastspring global technology fund' which I use all my cpf OA to invest at 74cent. Now should be aro S$1.285.

 

[BBCWatcher]

Yes, and if the management fee were lower and the fund more tax efficient, any gain you've seen would be that much bigger.

Why? What's the point in paying X multiple higher management fees? Why would anybody rationally want to do that...except if you're selling high cost unit trusts?

If there's a low cost unit trust, great, name it. Provide the ISIN -- it's easy to do. And we'll all take a look. There's no mystery here.

 

[stellamara]

I bought into BlackRock multi assets income fund sgd. supposedly a Low voltalitly fund but also drop like 2-3% in recent days. Dunno wtf can drop so much considering it's 70% fixed income.

And yes it gives monthly dividend

 

[mmchaisi]

It is true that some places charge 5% sale charges for unit trust investments.

It is also true that some places charge 0%.

It is factually incorrect to blanket say that everywhere charges 5% sale charge for unit trusts. It depends on the bank or brokerage. Anyone who says this is ignorant and uninformed.

Also true that some brokers charge custody fees.

 

[Mecisteus]

With the proliferation of low costs ETFs, Unit Trusts here are also getting more competitive.

Many platforms are offering ZERO sales and redemption charges. No custody fees too. The only downside is the slightly high expense ratio.

 

[Han Shot First]

Congratulations on beating the CPF OA interest rate!

My guess is you forgot the one i post in Sep 2014. You have the same comment about the sale charges.

Where is the link to your post in Sep 2014? The fund prospectus specifies a maximum sales charge of 3% for use of CPF money. If POEMS waives sales charge, platform fees and switching fees, then how does the UT distributor make money? Do they charge a back end fee i.e. a fee when one sells off the units of the UT? POEMS advertises that there is zero fees for buying unit trusts but they did not say anything about selling unit trusts.

I think it was 'eastspring global technology fund' which I use all my cpf OA to invest at 74cent. Now should be aro S$1.285.

FYI, the Eastspring Investments Unit Trusts - Global Technology Fund underperformed its benchmark index for the last few years. A number of actively managed tech oriented funds have also outperformed your chosen tech fund. In fact, some passively managed technology funds have even doubled in price. If you had been able to choose those tech funds, you would have made even more money (at lower risk). However, can't be greedy - at least you made a profit.

 

[antonpoh]

Congratulations on beating the CPF OA interest rate!

Where is the link to your post in Sep 2014? The fund prospectus specifies a maximum sales charge of 3% for use of CPF money. If POEMS waives sales charge, platform fees and switching fees, then how does the UT distributor make money? Do they charge a back end fee i.e. a fee when one sells off the units of the UT? POEMS advertises that there is zero fees for buying unit trusts but they did not say anything about selling unit trusts.

https://unittrust.poems.com.sg/introduction/our-advantage/

FYI, the Eastspring Investments Unit Trusts - Global Technology Fund underperformed its benchmark index for the last few years. A number of actively managed tech oriented funds have also outperformed your chosen tech fund. In fact, some passively managed technology funds have even doubled in price. If you had been able to choose those tech funds, you would have made even more money (at lower risk). However, can't be greedy - at least you made a profit.

This Global Technology Fund is now at $1.441, already close to double. Ya, can't be greedy.

 

[antonpoh]

Where is the link to your post in Sep 2014?

2014 post
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/money-mind-210/small-investment-4895841-3.html#post90389686



2017 post
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/108449835-post29.html

any recommendations?

went to local bank, they ask my mum invest in unit trust with mixed in high dividend equities and bonds when she went to withdraw money from FD. looks not bad until I realised its 5% upfront commission cost to the bank. I walked away.

I will open a philips capital account for her, but any recommendations for what she can buy? thinking some mixed equity/bond etf, just buy and dont look back (no frequent rebalancing etc), regardless of bad or good times.

No stocks, equity, bond, gold or reits can just buy and don't look back regardless of good or bad times. I don't hold many stocks. This is the only better ones i can use my CPF to buy.

Aro end of 2014 i share a unit trust in this Forum, can read more from the links below. Bought this UT at 73c in September 2014.

Eastspring Investments Unit Trusts - Global Technology Fund

http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/money-mind-210/small-investment-4895841-3.html#post90389686

http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/money-mind-210/recommend-low-risk-product-%24150k-4899281.html

Btw, exit strategy

Spoiler

for this Eastspring Investments Unit Trusts - Global Technology Fund can hold till Jun of 2017 or till it hit aro $1.40.

 

[Han Shot First]

Thank you for providing the links.

I'm extremely puzzled. If there are no sales charge, no platform fees and no switching fees, then how does PhillipCapital, the owner of POEMS, make money from these unit trusts?

Are there hidden fees e.g. an exit charge? The particular Eastspring tech fund prospectus states that there is no exit charge. But perhaps there is an exit charge imposed by the unit trust distributor i.e. POEMS.

 

[Mecisteus]

Thank you for providing the links.

I'm extremely puzzled. If there are no sales charge, no platform fees and no switching fees, then how does PhillipCapital, the owner of POEMS, make money from these unit trusts?

Are there hidden fees e.g. an exit charge? The particular Eastspring tech fund prospectus states that there is no exit charge. But perhaps there is an exit charge imposed by the unit trust distributor i.e. POEMS.

They don't impose platform fees.

Some funds have sales charges.

There is definitely no exit charge. I have never read before.

 

[blurpandasg2014]

Thank you for providing the links.

I'm extremely puzzled. If there are no sales charge, no platform fees and no switching fees, then how does PhillipCapital, the owner of POEMS, make money from these unit trusts?

Are there hidden fees e.g. an exit charge? The particular Eastspring tech fund prospectus states that there is no exit charge. But perhaps there is an exit charge imposed by the unit trust distributor i.e. POEMS.

They earn via backend trailer fee.... The fund manager will pay poems a cut of their annual fees.


Check how dollardex which also has no fees earn :
https://www.dollardex.com/sg/index.cfm?current=/contents/faqearn&contentID=1767

 

[Han Shot First]

There is definitely no exit charge. I have never read before.

Exit Charge as defined by Morningstar UK:
A fee or sales charge imposed when investors sell shares in certain unit trusts or other investment vehicles. The amount tends to decrease the longer you hold the shares, often to nothing after a set period of time, i.e. three or five years. This is typically designed to discourage investors from withdrawing their money too soon.

The link is http://www.morningstar.co.uk/uk/glossary/98102/exit-charge.aspx

This is an excerpt from a blog post by a MAS-licensed financial advisor:
2. Exit fees: Fees charged by banks/financial advisors/brokers for when you exit a fund position, usually within a given time from investment (typically ~1% in Singapore)

A related term is Redemption Fee. I came across at least one unit trust on Morningstar website which lists a redemption fee among its other fees. This particular unit trust is also one of the funds distributed by POEMS.

 

[limster]

Exit Charge as defined by Morningstar UK:
A fee or sales charge imposed when investors sell shares in certain unit trusts or other investment vehicles. The amount tends to decrease the longer you hold the shares, often to nothing after a set period of time, i.e. three or five years. This is typically designed to discourage investors from withdrawing their money too soon.

The link is http://www.morningstar.co.uk/uk/glossary/98102/exit-charge.aspx

This is an excerpt from a blog post by a MAS-licensed financial advisor:
2. Exit fees: Fees charged by banks/financial advisors/brokers for when you exit a fund position, usually within a given time from investment (typically ~1% in Singapore)

A related term is Redemption Fee. I came across at least one unit trust on Morningstar website which lists a redemption fee among its other fees. This particular unit trust is also one of the funds distributed by POEMS.

Do you have a link to the poems or FSM website of a fund that charges exit or redemption fee? I am vested in CPF unit trusts via FSMOne and I haven't encountered redemption fees yet. I must have bought and sold 20 different funds in the past but nowadays settled on about 3-4 core funds.

Sure there might be other platforms that charge exit or redemption fees, but talking about poems and FSMOne, answer is no from my experience investing in various unit trusts.

 

[Han Shot First]

They earn via backend trailer fee.... The fund manager will pay poems a cut of their annual fees.

Check how dollardex which also has no fees earn :
https://www.dollardex.com/sg/index.cfm?current=/contents/faqearn&contentID=1767

Thank you for the very useful link. It provided a clear explanation.

Do you have an equivalent link for POEMS? I searched the POEMS website but could not find any so far (on what are their visible and hidden non-zero fees or charges). I believe a trail fee is considered as a hidden charge.

DollarDex also charges a transfer out fee (that might be waived).

DollarDex gave an example where they earn 16.67% of annual management fee as their trailer fee. However, it is typically about 3 times higher according to this excerpt of a blog post by a MAS-licensed financial advisor:
1. Trail fees: Fund managers pay the bank/financial advisor/broker who sold you the fund an annual fee, which comes out of the expense ratio of the fund and is typically around 50% of the expense ratio for funds that do pay trails.

As you seem to be familiar with both POEMS and DollarDex, which would you recommend for unit trust investing (or trading)?

 

[Han Shot First]

Do you have a link to the poems or FSM website of a fund that charges exit or redemption fee? I am vested in CPF unit trusts via FSMOne and I haven't encountered redemption fees yet. I must have bought and sold 20 different funds in the past but nowadays settled on about 3-4 core funds.

Sure there might be other platforms that charge exit or redemption fees, but talking about poems and FSMOne, answer is no from my experience investing in various unit trusts.

Thank you for sharing your experience.

If one is interested in a particular unit trust, one can search for and download the Product Highlights Sheet document of that unit trust. Then under the Fees and Charges section of the PHS, look out for related terms like Exit Charge, Redemption Fee or Realisation Charge.

For example, the PHS of Eastspring Investments Unit Trusts - Global Technology Fund shows a Realisation Charge of 0% (maximum 2%).

Would you like to share what are your 3-4 core funds?

Why do you choose to use FSMOne? I thought their platform fees impose additional costs for a unit trust investor. Would you recommend FSMOne or another unit trust distributor for unit trust investing and especially for using moneys from CPF OA?

 

[limster]

i hope you realise that the phrase "0% max 2%" means there is no exit or redemption charge. like i said, i have never encountered a unit trust in fsmone or poems that charges exit or redemption fee.

Fsmone no platform fee for cpf.

First State Greater China is one of my top holdings, I am also holding First State Bridge.