⚡️💻 [Official] README First! 2025 SG ISP Comparison & Latest Promo Deals! ✨

[xiaofan]

I just got the Viewquest 2GBPS plan (1+1). I'm playing with it for now, but I'm a bit frustruated. When I connect 2 PCs and do speedtest at the same time, I do got 2GBPS download, but only 1GBPS upload.
I was thinking I could do 2GBPS Download AND upload.
Looks like not. I'll contact the service client to check

That is normal, Viewquest 2Gbps and SingTel 2Gbps are quite similar, they are the aggregated 2Gbps plan and the upload limit is 1Gbps.

SingTel 2Gbps FAQ.
https://www.singtel.com/content/dam/singtel/eshop/faq/2Gbps-Singtel-Fibre-Broadband-FAQs.pdf
Underline technical reason: this is the limit of the GPON technology.

The most common GPON standard permits a capacity on each “trunk” line of 2.488 Gb/s on the downstream, and a maximum upstream capacity of 1.244 Gb/s.

 

[lobukong]

Thanks for the info.
I used to be very proud of SG internet speed. Then only recently, after some bad experiences, I realized the speed test is like doing iperf test with ISP router only. It's important to get it right, but the experience still depends on the ISP. Be it good or bad, need to stuck with it for 2 years.
Then if sign up broadband from 2 ISP, does anyone know how to configure the router to choose optimum ISP based on destination? Or is there no need for this configuration, 2nd ISP only function as fallback or load balancing?

 

[xiaofan]

Thanks for the info.
I used to be very proud of SG internet speed. Then only recently, after some bad experiences, I realized the speed test is like doing iperf test with ISP router only. It's important to get it right, but the experience still depends on the ISP. Be it good or bad, need to stuck with it for 2 years.
Then if sign up broadband from 2 ISP, does anyone know how to configure the router to choose optimum ISP based on destination? Or is there no need for this configuration, 2nd ISP only function as fallback or load balancing?

It is just easier to use the 2nd ISP as a fallback. You can also set it up as dual WAN load balancing but there might be some issues so you may need to carry out extra settings.

Consumer routers have limited dual wan related settings. So pro-users like Brother TanKianW will advocate the use pfSense if you are really serious about dual wan.

Example configuration for Asus routers, recommended models are those with 2.5G port, like RT-AX86U and GT-AX11000 so that you can achieve >1Gbps with dual WAN load balancing with single connection. The routing rules settings are rather limited but it may be good enough for your use case.
https://www.asus.com/sg/support/FAQ/1011719/
Recent discussions:
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...-wan-question-1-5gbps-possible.6716033/page-2

 

[xiaofan]

BTW, Singapore ISPs are pretty okay, yes there are issues but in general there are no issues with Ethernet connections with either the 1Gbps plan or the 500Mbps plan.

The majority of the issues mentioned in this forum are mainly related to bad routers (espeically free routers given by ISPs like Singtel or Starhub) and wireless related issues.

 

[xiaofan]

That being said, SG government is commited to improve the broadband, So hopefully we will see cheaper true 2Gbps (current 2Gbps plans are fake ones), 5Gbps and 10Gbps plan in the next few years. Maybe FTTR can become the normal in the future BTO HDB flats along with CAT6 cabling (or better).

https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/go...e-to-be-upgraded-additional-s200m-for-digital
******************
SINGAPORE will upgrade its broadband infrastructure, with the view of increasing broadband access speeds by about 10 times over the next few years, Finance Minister Lawrence Wong said on Friday (Feb 18).

The government will also invest in future technologies such as 6G, to tap the next communications and connectivity wave.

"The use cases for such high speeds are still nascent, but there are many new possibilities for augmented and virtual reality tools, limited only by our imagination," Wong said in Parliament.
******************

 

[lobukong]

Hi xiaofan,
Thanks for the reply. I agree most of the time the internet is pretty good. Especially for websites with SG data centers.

For dual WAN config, I also used to worry 1G port being a bottleneck. Then I found out that speedtest to oversea servers only yield 10-200M, so now I think for home router 1G port is fine, as bottleneck is still at ISP.

I wish the ISPs have specialty like, which one is good for China connection, which one is good for US connection. Then maybe I can use dnsmasq ipset to route different traffic to different ISP to achieve good latency/packet loss? It's a bit troublesome but I don't know better ways.

However, as currently it seems all ISP are similar performances to oversea sites, I find it difficult to justify spending extra 30/month for a fallback ISP.

 

[xiaofan]

Hi xiaofan,
Thanks for the reply. I agree most of the time the internet is pretty good. Especially for websites with SG data centers.
For dual WAN config, I also used to worry 1G port being a bottleneck. Then I found out that speedtest to oversea servers only yield 10-200M, so now I think for home router 1G port is fine, as bottleneck is still at ISP.
I wish the ISPs have specialty like, which one is good for China connection, which one is good for US connection. Then maybe I can use dnsmasq ipset to route different traffic to different ISP to achieve good latency/packet loss? It's a bit troublesome but I don't know better ways.
However, as currently it seems all ISP are similar performances to oversea sites, I find it difficult to justify spending extra 30/month for a fallback ISP.

For latency issues probably the only solution is to use VPN for now.

Dual ISP is mainly for people who can not afford down time at home. For example S$30 per month may be a small investment if you are doing some business at home.

I do not see the need myself as of now as SingTel is pretty stable for me.

 

[bert64]

Thanks for the info.
I used to be very proud of SG internet speed. Then only recently, after some bad experiences, I realized the speed test is like doing iperf test with ISP router only. It's important to get it right, but the experience still depends on the ISP. Be it good or bad, need to stuck with it for 2 years.
Then if sign up broadband from 2 ISP, does anyone know how to configure the router to choose optimum ISP based on destination? Or is there no need for this configuration, 2nd ISP only function as fallback or load balancing?

The problem is that end users rely on sites like speedtest as a benchmark and comparison point, so the providers will optimize for this. Most users lack the technical knowledge to assess the connection more thoroughly, and when they have a problem they will believe whatever story the first line support give them without being able to verify it properly - first line support often have no idea themselves and make things up, if not outright lie.
In general, latency is far more important than raw throughput for most things. Latency can also severely affect throughput, depending on things like tcp window scaling etc. Then there are various protocols which are adversely affected by the presence of NAT on either end of the connection.

That's why you see 2gbps services being touted, when in reality a 100mbps connection with lower latency and better international peering would probably work better for most users. I have a system hosted on a 100mbps link in the UK which can achieve better throughput to certain locations in China and Japan than some 1gbps connections in Singapore which should on paper be faster - not only due to the higher link rate, but also being closer geographically.

On other more important metrics such as IPv6 deployment, Singapore has fallen behind China and even Myanmar:
https://stats.labs.apnic.net/ipv6/XD
Users don't know what IPv6 is or why it's important so they are not demanding it, whereas in other countries like China the government is forcing providers to roll it out.

 

[lobukong]

Hi bert64, thank you for the enlightening reply.
I find it really difficult to get relevant information when choosing ISP/plan. People pay more to get better internet, but in reality gets the same experience, only got a nice speedtest result.
For example, if M1 500M plan user speedtest using a KL server and tested bandwidth to be 200M. Will 1G plan user get a 400M result? (I guess not but I'm not sure.)
If both user get similar results, why need to pay extra for 1G plan? youtube 4k needs 20M, and I don't have 25 people concurrently watching 4k youtube at home. Let alone 2G plan for 100 people.
Hope someone can come up with an open source test software based on firesong&xiaofan's speedtest script to test connection to different servers around the world, then collect the data and generate summary based on different ISP/plans.

 

[firesong]

Hi bert64, thank you for the enlightening reply.
I find it really difficult to get relevant information when choosing ISP/plan. People pay more to get better internet, but in reality gets the same experience, only got a nice speedtest result.
For example, if M1 500M plan user speedtest using a KL server and tested bandwidth to be 200M. Will 1G plan user get a 400M result? (I guess not but I'm not sure.)
If both user get similar results, why need to pay extra for 1G plan? youtube 4k needs 20M, and I don't have 25 people concurrently watching 4k youtube at home. Let alone 2G plan for 100 people.
Hope someone can come up with an open source test software based on firesong&xiaofan's speedtest script to test connection to different servers around the world, then collect the data and generate summary based on different ISP/plans.

I believe it comes down to profits. The price differential between 500Mbps and 1Gbps is $10/mo, or $240 over a 2 year contract that the ISPs can earn for overselling. Recently, it seems that it's going the way of $15 now, not $10, so that's $360 over a 2 year period.

To sell the faster service, they play on impatience and inadequacy - "faster is better". That's why using numbers to compare is so attractive, as intuitive humans know that the bigger number is usually the better number and it's a seemingly objective comparison. But they hide many things that users will never see (hence the reason behind my initiative for an International Speed Tests thread). But everyone plays the game - router manufacturers are also guilty of promising fantastic numbers but will never tell users the truth about what they can actually get, which is nearly Gigabit speeds in almost-perfect conditions with 802.11ax. It'll never go beyond that until they improve their LAN connection to be 2.5GbE or 10GbE, so the LAN connection becomes the bottleneck even if the wireless connection is theoretically capable of about 1.1-1.2Gbps in real world use.

Of course, there are other overheads they need to consider, operating costs, staff overheads, etc... But the kicker for many people are the share dividends they have to pay out to investors and the bonuses they pay their top executives that can come to millions of dollars. They could cut back on those and keep costs manageable for people, but it makes their offerings less interesting and may not attract investment, so it's a bit of a catch-22 here. Here there's a lot of external factors interplaying, so it's a bit complicated. But to go straight to the root, it's about profits.

 

[xiaofan]

I believe it comes down to profits. The price differential between 500Mbps and 1Gbps is $10/mo, or $240 over a 2 year contract that the ISPs can earn for overselling. Recently, it seems that it's going the way of $15 now, not $10, so that's $360 over a 2 year period.

...

For M1 the difference between 1Gbps plan and 500Mbps plan is actually much less than S$240, the reason is that they give away free Asus RT-AX55 or TP-Link Archer AX72 for free with the 1Gbps plan. Usually you can fetch about S$110 if you sell the RT-AX55 away. So the difference is in reality S$130. Sometimes M1 will throw one or two month free to make the difference even less.

Same for Starhub. The list price of S$45.90 per month seems to be high but in reality the effective price is only S$36.34 per month. Then the free router is lousy so you can only get S$40 back from Carousel. But if you choose to top up S$8 for the Linksys MX4200 you actually save more as the usually price is quite a bit higher. And then 24 month of Disney+ is also worth quite some money.

Still for me I stick to Starhub 500 Mbps for my secondary connection since it is without contract at S$29.90 permanently, no need the hassle to recontract, no need the hassle to check for offers. That is more important for me.

Ref: Starhub current offer
https://www.starhub.com/personal/broadband.html24 months, 1Gbps
Limited time offer, for new sign-ups only
FREE 5 months
Disney+ on us
FREE Smart WiFi worth $199
Top up $4/month (U.P. $8/month) for Smart WiFi or $8/month (U.P. $16/month) for Smart WiFi Pro
$45.90 per month

 

[firesong]

For M1 the difference between 1Gbps plan and 500Mbps plan is actually much less than S$240, the reason is that they give away free Asus RT-AX55 or TP-Link Archer AX72 for free with the 1Gbps plan. Usually you can fetch about S$110 if you sell the RT-AX55 away. So the difference is in reality S$130. Sometimes M1 will throw one or two month free to make the difference even less.

Same for Starhub. The list price of S$45.90 per month seems to be high but in reality the effective price is only S$36.34 per month. Then the free router is lousy so you can only get S$40 back from Carousel. But if you choose to top up S$8 for the Linksys MX4200 you actually save more as the usually price is quite a bit higher. And then 24 month of Disney+ is also worth quite some money.

Still for me I stick to Starhub 500 Mbps for my secondary connection since it is without contract at S$29.90 permanently, no need the hassle to recontract, no need the hassle to check for offers. That is more important for me.

Ref: Starhub current offer
https://www.starhub.com/personal/broadband.html24 months, 1Gbps
Limited time offer, for new sign-ups only
FREE 5 months
Disney+ on us
FREE Smart WiFi worth $199
Top up $4/month (U.P. $8/month) for Smart WiFi or $8/month (U.P. $16/month) for Smart WiFi Pro
$45.90 per month

Probably not fair to consider Disney+ as Starhub owns the rights. They're just giving for free access to a service they control, so it doesn't cost them anything to provision. They may not earn from users, but they are definitely not "out of pocket" so to speak. It's their competitive advantage since they own the rights.

Fair point on the bundled routers, but I seriously doubt the ISPs get it anywhere near retail pricing.

 

[xiaofan]

Probably not fair to consider Disney+ as Starhub owns the rights. They're just giving for free access to a service they control, so it doesn't cost them anything to provision. They may not earn from users, but they are definitely not "out of pocket" so to speak. It's their competitive advantage since they own the rights.

Fair point on the bundled routers, but I seriously doubt the ISPs get it anywhere near retail pricing.

You have to calculate from the consumer side in this case.

Anyway, I still think 500Mbps is worth it, especially now that M1 and Starhub will continue the S$29.90 per month pricing after contract expires (M1 used to charge higher price after contract expires). I am just saying what you say about S$240 cost saving is not really correct, let alone the S$360 figure.

 

[firesong]

You have to calculate from the consumer side in this case.

Anyway, I still think 500Mbps is worth it, especially now that M1 and Starhub will continue the S$29.90 per month pricing after contract expires (M1 used to charge higher price after contract expires). I am just saying what you say about S$240 cost saving is not really correct, let alone the S$360 figure.

Fair, but you are also making the assumption the consumers will be selling their routers and commanding the prices you state, as opposed to retaining them. I am merely looking from the amount paid perspective, without considering what else the customer does to offset costs since it is not a guarantee across the board for 100% of consumers.

I think including variables that are not 100% guarantees for all consumers makes for impossible comparisons. In research this is never counted since it is not predictable. Because then you should further include variables such as customers who happen to have companies giving internet allowances in your equation.

Keeping it to the amounts customers pay for their internet service, without considering period-promotions, is probably the most objective means of assessing everything in a fair manner.

 

[rainbow99]

the starhub free disney+ think till feb 2023 and not 24 months? was considering starhub previously as well. would be a good deal if indeed 24 months.

 

[firesong]

the starhub free disney+ think till feb 2023 and not 24 months? was considering starhub previously as well. would be a good deal if indeed 24 months.

Yep - I was looking at the same too. As of now, it's until Feb 2023. Also, with the bundling, you also have to take an additional + group channel (at least $15/mo, excluding the Sports+ group) to qualify for free Disney+. For many, Entertainment+ is enough so having to take another $15 group just to get a "free" $10/mo service that doesn't run the full 24 months seems rather counterintuitive.

It was great when users signed up in April or even May 2021, but as the months pass, it becomes less value somewhat. Still, there are ways to get 12 months of D+ "free", like having one user on the 5G SIM-only plan with 12 months contract.

 

[lobukong]

I believe it comes down to profits. The price differential between 500Mbps and 1Gbps is $10/mo, or $240 over a 2 year contract that the ISPs can earn for overselling. Recently, it seems that it's going the way of $15 now, not $10, so that's $360 over a 2 year period.

To sell the faster service, they play on impatience and inadequacy - "faster is better". That's why using numbers to compare is so attractive, as intuitive humans know that the bigger number is usually the better number and it's a seemingly objective comparison. But they hide many things that users will never see (hence the reason behind my initiative for an International Speed Tests thread). But everyone plays the game - router manufacturers are also guilty of promising fantastic numbers but will never tell users the truth about what they can actually get, which is nearly Gigabit speeds in almost-perfect conditions with 802.11ax. It'll never go beyond that until they improve their LAN connection to be 2.5GbE or 10GbE, so the LAN connection becomes the bottleneck even if the wireless connection is theoretically capable of about 1.1-1.2Gbps in real world use.

Of course, there are other overheads they need to consider, operating costs, staff overheads, etc... But the kicker for many people are the share dividends they have to pay out to investors and the bonuses they pay their top executives that can come to millions of dollars. They could cut back on those and keep costs manageable for people, but it makes their offerings less interesting and may not attract investment, so it's a bit of a catch-22 here. Here there's a lot of external factors interplaying, so it's a bit complicated. But to go straight to the root, it's about profits.

Thanks, I see now. So I assume 1G and gamer plans are basically providing same service with fancier marketing and higher price. I'll go with M1 or starhub next, as they at least still provide 500M plan and all others try very hard to promote 1g or 2g plans. Plus can support ipv6 adoption.

 

[xiaofan]

Thanks, I see now. So I assume 1G and gamer plans are basically providing same service with fancier marketing and higher price. I'll go with M1 or starhub next, as they at least still provide 500M plan and all others try very hard to promote 1g or 2g plans. Plus can support ipv6 adoption.

Good choice. Main difference between M1 500Mbps and Starhub 500Mbps plan is that M1 offers free digital voice if you needs that whereas Starhub charges S$2.1 per month for digital voice. And some say M1 got beter customer service than Starhub.

I think both are good choices and it will depend on your personal preference. Digital Voice becomes useless for me now (previously it was quite useful for overseas calling). And Starhub customer service seems to improve a bit based on my recent encounter with them. And M1 seems to have more downtime compared to Starhub for the previous two years. So I will stick to Starhub 500Mbps for my secondary line.

For my main line, I will stick to Singtel 1Gbps (ONT user) as I have no issued with Singtel and it has been very stable for me (upgraded from 500Mbps to 1Gbps in Sept 2018, because of TV bundle plan changes).

I do not recommend new users to go with Singtel. But for existing Singtel users (especially users of ONT or bridged ONR), I think it is okay to stay if not encountering issues.

Same recommendation for other ISP users -- if it an't broke, don't fix it.

 

[lobukong]

Good choice. Main difference between M1 500Mbps and Starhub 500Mbps plan is that M1 offers free digital voice if you needs that whereas Starhub charges S$2.1 per month for digital voice. And some say M1 got beter customer service than Starhub.

I think both are good choices and it will depend on your personal preference. Digital Voice becomes useless for me now (previously it was quite useful for overseas calling). And Starhub customer service seems to improve a bit based on my recent encounter with them. And M1 seems to have more downtime compared to Starhub for the previous two years. So I will stick to Starhub 500Mbps for my secondary line.

For my main line, I will stick to Singtel 1Gbps (ONT user) as I have no issued with Singtel and it has been very stable for me (upgraded from 500Mbps to 1Gbps in Sept 2018, because of TV bundle plan changes).

I do not recommend new users to go with Singtel. Buf for existing Singtel users (especially users of ONT or bridged ONR), I think it is okay to stay if not encountering issues.

Same recommendation for other ISP users -- if it an't broke, don't fix it.

Thing is, how do you know if it's broken without comparison?
In an ideal world, I would like to try different plans from all ISP for one week each at home, and choose one (or two) plan that makes the most sense to me. Which is not possible, so the following combined frustrated me:
1. Inability to properly test & compare plans.
2. Having to choose based on marketing crap with little facts. (thanks to forum, now I know better)
3. Lock for 2 years.

For your Singtel choice, may I know what do you mean by stable? Why care about stable when you have a fallback ISP?

 

[xiaofan]

Thing is, how do you know if it's broken without comparison?
In an ideal world, I would like to try different plans from all ISP for one week each at home, and choose one (or two) plan that makes the most sense to me. Which is not possible, so the following combined frustrated me:
1. Inability to properly test & compare plans.
2. Having to choose based on marketing crap with little facts. (thanks to forum, now I know better)
3. Lock for 2 years.
For your Singtel choice, may I know what do you mean by stable? Why care about stable when you have a fallback ISP?

Yes this forum is a good place to know the feedbacks and comparisons.

SingTel usually does not go down. That is what I mean by stability.

I do not have a fall back.

My flat: SingTel 1Gbps (with Singtel TV)
My rented out flat: Starhub 500Mbps