PC - HDR Gaming - Sharing Experience

[Phen8210]

Unfortunately, I feel that proper HDR for PC gaming is still way too expensive for most people. A good mini LED or OLED monitor will set one back by over 1.5K now. You can get TV for around 2K, but its too big for me to use as a monitor.

Yeah.. too expensive. Most HDR on monitors like HDR400 is actually not very impactful.

A lot of monitors will purposely dim the display in HDR mode, and make colors appear more vibrant to give the user a false impression of what HDR is, but that's not what HDR is supposed to be.

The last time I deliberately tuned a monitor HDR400 mode settings to make it look similar to its SDR mode (both colors and brightness-wise) by calibrating it based on normal content. This also includes setting the brightness balance between HDR and SDR to be neutral on windows.

After removing all these external factors, I put up HDR content and switched between HDR/SDR and realized that the difference became very subtle.

This means the difference many people see in these 'HDR400' monitors is actually mostly not an 'HDR' experience. A lot of the difference seen actually mostly has nothing to do with HDR, it was the results of other settings.

When I did the same thing on a true HDR panel, it still had a massive difference regardless.

 

[Yongkit]

Yeah.. too expensive. Most HDR on monitors like HDR400 is actually not very impactful.

A lot of monitors will purposely dim the display in HDR mode, and make colors appear more vibrant to give the user a false impression of what HDR is, but that's not what HDR is supposed to be.

The last time I deliberately tuned a monitor HDR400 mode settings to make it look similar to its SDR mode (both colors and brightness-wise) by calibrating it based on normal content. This also includes setting the brightness balance between HDR and SDR to be neutral on windows.

After removing all these external factors, I put up HDR content and switched between HDR/SDR and realized that the difference became very subtle.

This means the difference many people see in these 'HDR400' monitors is actually mostly not an 'HDR' experience. A lot of the difference seen actually mostly has nothing to do with HDR, it was the results of other settings.

When I did the same thing on a true HDR panel, it still had a massive difference regardless.

I not quite understand when you mentioned purposely dim the display?

I also curious how do you play HDR content with SDR monitor for example youtube video i share on the cyberpunk comparison?

my experience using SDR monitor, I cannot see the HDR content "light glow" or "Electric Sparkles" as compared with my current HDR 450 nits monitor.

 

[Phen8210]

I not quite understand when you mentioned purposely dim the display?

I also curious how do you play HDR content with SDR monitor for example youtube video i share on the cyberpunk comparison?

Basically, I mentioned calibrating a monitor's HDR/SDR mode appearance based on SDR content, and then testing out the differences using HDR-enabled mode + content. This is to ensure that the differences were actually a result of HDR and not external factors creating a fake HDR effect.

My experiment shows that many non-true HDR monitors are actually generating fake HDR effects, and the majority of the differences seen in their HDR mode are not from a result of HDR, but from external factors. Once, I rid of those external factors, the 'HDR' mode doesn't have that big of a difference anymore. This shouldn't even be a surprise anyway.

Also, the youtube video you linked is bogus HDR. That is because the elements of HDR don't show up under SDR playback but there were differences between the left and right sides, this means that a filter was applied.

This is a pic from the video you linked when playback in SDR. It says HDR on the left, and SDR on the right. The lens flare effect was disabled on the right side btw.


I enhanced the colors from the top right image to create the image on the bottom left. Then, I used the bottom left image to create the image on the bottom right by doing -100 brightness and -10/-15 contrast.

I also made it super vibrant on the left picture as well as adjusting the shadows to reveal the details on the left sides of both images.

As I mentioned, if HDR was doing any work, then the only time you should see a difference is with an HDR-enabled monitor and content, nothing else.

For non-true HDR monitors, there can be differences seen after calibrating/disabling all the color enhancement/filters on the content/monitor but the difference becomes much more subtle than before, they do play a very big part.

Obviously, whether the user like it or not has nothing to do with me, I am just sharing .

 

[Yongkit]

Basically, I mentioned calibrating a monitor's HDR/SDR mode appearance based on SDR content, and then testing out the differences using HDR-enabled mode + content. This is to ensure that the differences were actually a result of HDR and not external factors creating a fake HDR effect.

My experiment shows that many non-true HDR monitors are actually generating fake HDR effects, and the majority of the differences seen in their HDR mode are not from a result of HDR, but from external factors. Once, I rid of those external factors, the 'HDR' mode doesn't have that big of a difference anymore. This shouldn't even be a surprise anyway.

Also, the youtube video you linked is bogus HDR. That is because the elements of HDR don't show up under SDR playback but there were differences between the left and right sides, this means that a filter was applied.

This is a pic from the video you linked when playback in SDR. It says HDR on the left, and SDR on the right. The lens flare effect was disabled on the right side btw.
View attachment 37623

I enhanced the colors from the top right image to create the image on the bottom left. Then, I used the bottom left image to create the image on the bottom right by doing -100 brightness and -10/-15 contrast.
View attachment 37622
I also made it super vibrant on the left picture as well as adjusting the shadows to reveal the details on the left sides of both images.

As I mentioned, if HDR was doing any work, then the only time you should see a difference is with an HDR-enabled monitor and content, nothing else.

For non-true HDR monitors, there can be differences seen after calibrating/disabling all the color enhancement/filters on the content/monitor but the difference becomes much more subtle than before, they do play a very big part.

Obviously, whether the user like it or not has nothing to do with me, I am just sharing .

Many thanks for sharing your vision of HDR and now I am more clear what you meant in earlier comment and I do appreciate the details explanation.

I do have an interesting article to share regarding to FAKE HDR in view so many reviewer was giving their own vision of HDR

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/focus.php?id=1602751285&subaction=showfull

 

[Phen8210]

Many thanks for sharing your vision of HDR and now I am more clear what you meant in earlier comment and I do appreciate the details explanation.

I do have an interesting article to share regarding to FAKE HDR in view so many reviewer was giving their own vision of HDR

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/focus.php?id=1602751285&subaction=showfull

Yeap, in the article some parts are right.. it is not about adding stuff to things that are not supposed to be there. By using filters and effects it obviously adds stuff that is not supposed to be there.

The main problem with the article is that the writer doesn't seem to know anything beyond brightness and nits and also has no idea how proper HDR is produced and displayed.

Who talks about HDR without mention of local dimming..
https://www.displayninja.com/what-is-led-local-dimming
It's literally the reason that true hdr panels look so natural

 

[Yongkit]

Yeap, in the article some parts are right.. it is not about adding stuff to things that are not supposed to be there. By using filters and effects it obviously adds stuff that is not supposed to be there.

The main problem with the article is that the writer doesn't seem to know anything beyond brightness and nits and also has no idea how proper HDR is produced and displayed.

Who talks about HDR without mention of local dimming..
https://www.displayninja.com/what-is-led-local-dimming
It's literally the reason that true hdr panels look so natural

Agreed for this local dimming play a major role in the HDR landscape, example the color tone of mentioned lens flare from orange ceiling lamp + 2 light bulbs build within is basically the results of local dimming with HDR and it cannot be duplicate by increasing the color tone or highlight after effects.

The 4 different types of backlights mentioned in your shared article majority of HDR 400 monitors is either 2 of the following and very much depends on how the monitor brand implemented this for the better experience.

• Edge-lit (without local dimming)
• Edge-lit with local dimming

 

[tsteo77]

Unfortunately, I feel that proper HDR for PC gaming is still way too expensive for most people. A good mini LED or OLED monitor will set one back by over 1.5K now. You can get TV for around 2K, but its too big for me to use as a monitor.

Yeap, in the article some parts are right.. it is not about adding stuff to things that are not supposed to be there. By using filters and effects it obviously adds stuff that is not supposed to be there.

The main problem with the article is that the writer doesn't seem to know anything beyond brightness and nits and also has no idea how proper HDR is produced and displayed.

Who talks about HDR without mention of local dimming..
https://www.displayninja.com/what-is-led-local-dimming
It's literally the reason that true hdr panels look so natural

Agreed for this local dimming play a major role in the HDR landscape, example the color tone of mentioned lens flare from orange ceiling lamp + 2 light bulbs build within is basically the results of local dimming with HDR and it cannot be duplicate by increasing the color tone or highlight after effects.

The 4 different types of backlights mentioned in your shared article majority of HDR 400 monitors is either 2 of the following and very much depends on how the monitor brand implemented this for the better experience.

• Edge-lit (without local dimming)
• Edge-lit with local dimming

Just a friendly words of health caution, i got a reading of electric field of about 500 v/m usinga tester near and within 3 feets of my 22 inches monitor.

 

[YouHeypiCanLiao]

Silly question I have 2k ext monitor and i7 5 year old lappy.
how come 8k option not being provided by YouTube ?

hdr is supported by monitor or gpu ?

 

[YouHeypiCanLiao]

HDR is beautiful. But so many issues with screenshots, snipping tool etc.

Ownself see is good. want to SIC is gg

Can explain snipping tool issue?

 

[Yongkit]

Silly question I have 2k ext monitor and i7 5 year old lappy.
how come 8k option not being provided by YouTube ?

hdr is supported by monitor or gpu ?

You will need AV1 extension available for download on windows store.
Both your CPU or GPU need to support AV1 decode extension to play 8k content.

HDR need to be supported by both monitor and GPU, more information as following link windows 10 & 11 included.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...c-6f97-bbc6c5ef24e6#WindowsVersion=Windows_11

 

[Yongkit]

https://www.tomshardware.com/features/displayport-vs-hdmi-better-for-gaming
Type of HDMI & DP cable can determine how good of the HDR bandwidth between the GPU and monitor display for viewing pleasure.

 

[tsteo77]

https://www.tomshardware.com/features/displayport-vs-hdmi-better-for-gaming
Type of HDMI & DP cable can determine how good of the HDR bandwidth between the GPU and monitor display for viewing pleasure.

Nice. Do you or nayone know if there is any difference in graphics/video display between normal, active, optical hdmi cable ? See example below.
https://www.amazon.sg/Certified-Opt...ocphy=9062515&hvtargid=pla-1643261599876&th=1
https://www.amazon.sg/Monoprice-113...locphy=9062515&hvtargid=pla-366071197812&th=1

 

[Yongkit]

Nice. Do you or nayone know if there is any difference in graphics/video display between normal, active, optical hdmi cable ? See example below.
https://www.amazon.sg/Certified-Opt...ocphy=9062515&hvtargid=pla-1643261599876&th=1
https://www.amazon.sg/Monoprice-113...locphy=9062515&hvtargid=pla-366071197812&th=1

I am not too familiar with these latest HDMI cable as I have been using display port cable for as long as my monitor and GPU supported and normally I do not need more than 3m length connection between PC and monitor.

 

[watzup_ken]

Nice. Do you or nayone know if there is any difference in graphics/video display between normal, active, optical hdmi cable ? See example below.
https://www.amazon.sg/Certified-Opt...ocphy=9062515&hvtargid=pla-1643261599876&th=1
https://www.amazon.sg/Monoprice-113...locphy=9062515&hvtargid=pla-366071197812&th=1

I doubt so. Active and optical fibre types generally are meant for long cables. For 1 to 3m HDMI cables which most people use, I don't believe it's meaningful.

 

[tsteo77]

I doubt so. Active and optical fibre types generally are meant for long cables. For 1 to 3m HDMI cables which most people use, I don't believe it's meaningful.

Thank you for sharing your opinion, but i'm going to order one with my hong bao money to try it out and maybe share my result with everyone.

 

[Yongkit]

Philips 27B1U7903 27" UHD Mini LED Quantum Dot Color ThunderBolt 4 Monitor



This monitor looks very interesting in HDR department

 

[watzup_ken]

Philips 27B1U7903 27" UHD Mini LED Quantum Dot Color ThunderBolt 4 Monitor

View attachment 37924

This monitor looks very interesting in HDR department

I was checking out this monitor earlier, but I think the downside is that 60hz refresh rate. Good for console gaming since no console can meet 4K @ 60FPS in graphically taxing titles. There is a review on Youtube that shows that the monitor is very good when it comes to feature and HDR, but seems like the panel is slower and thus, there's ghosting. If you want to see the actual monitor, I think you can find a Philip monitor booth on the 4th floor.

 

[Yongkit]

I was checking out this monitor earlier, but I think the downside is that 60hz refresh rate. Good for console gaming since no console can meet 4K @ 60FPS in graphically taxing titles. There is a review on Youtube that shows that the monitor is very good when it comes to feature and HDR, but seems like the panel is slower and thus, there's ghosting. If you want to see the actual monitor, I think you can find a Philip monitor booth on the 4th floor.

May I know 4th floor of which mall?

Ya only if the refresh rate could be higher would be very good option for consideration as it was needed for fps game

 

[watzup_ken]

May I know 4th floor of which mall?

Ya only if the refresh rate could be higher would be very good option for consideration as it was needed for fps game

Sorry I missed out. 4th floor of Sim Lim Sq. Anyway, higher refresh rate will also see prices shoot up.

 

[Yongkit]

Sorry I missed out. 4th floor of Sim Lim Sq. Anyway, higher refresh rate will also see prices shoot up.

Nice i will go check check to see the real monitor probably next week.