Pioneer Plasma Thread

[HardCORE]

Pioneer is probably manage to maintain their plasma line of business by securing such a premium price with small production volume. As for the price is well-spent or not, it is really subjective. Let's see if other manufacturer would come out something to beat pioneer, especially the PQ. So far Samsung seems to have the best PQ, is it due to its special post processing chip?

Among the 3 biggest players in plasma:

Pioneer (8th gen KURO) - overall best PQ, but imho overpriced
Strengths: Best blacks, best color, best scaler
Weaknesses: Overpriced

Panasonic - next best PQ, good value
Strengths: Great blacks (second to Pioneer), good color, great scaler (similar to Pioneer)
Weaknesses: Some people say the color is not as vivid out of the box vs Samsung and Pioneer (but color can be calibrated in the service menu)

Samsung - good PQ, good value but current models are a bit outdated
Strenghts: Good blacks (almost as good as Panasonic), great color
Weaknesses: Not-so-great scaler (to me Samsung LCDs and plasmas look bad with non-HD broadcasts like TCS, SCV, Astro, etc.), current Q91/C91 models dont support 1080P input, some people complain that it gets burn-in marks more easily than other brands

 

[Treble]

oh, didn't know samsung is "outdated". They are focusing on their LCD, the plasma line of business seems like "Wayang" only.....but my personal view, it's PQ is actually better on SD compared to Pioneer and Panasonic. Unless the joker at those showrooms did some cheat on it.....

 

[kwekey]

Among the 3 biggest players in plasma:

Pioneer (8th gen KURO) - overall best PQ, but imho overpriced
Strengths: Best blacks, best color, best scaler
Weaknesses: Overpriced

Panasonic - next best PQ, good value
Strengths: Great blacks (second to Pioneer), good color, great scaler (similar to Pioneer)
Weaknesses: Some people say the color is not as vivid out of the box vs Samsung and Pioneer (but color can be calibrated in the service menu)

Samsung - good PQ, good value but current models are a bit outdated
Strenghts: Good blacks (almost as good as Panasonic), great color
Weaknesses: Not-so-great scaler (to me Samsung LCDs and plasmas look bad with non-HD broadcasts like TCS, SCV, Astro, etc.), current Q91/C91 models dont support 1080P input, some people complain that it gets burn-in marks more easily than other brands

Hi , care to include Hitachi and LG in the comparison? I am thinking of these 2 models.

 

[HardCORE]

Hi , care to include Hitachi and LG in the comparison? I am thinking of these 2 models.

Just my opinions ah...

Hitachi: Their black level is really bad compared to the rest. If you are lucky enough to view plasma TVs side by side in a showroom, look for dark scenes or scenes with lots of black - the Hitachis blacks are very obviously grey, even worse than some LCDs. This would be a deal breaker for me. Hitachi like to "falsely" advertise as being "Full HD" or "1080" ready but in fact Hitachi has a unique ALIS screen which makes its screens have a resolution of 1024x1080i (the 1080 lines is interlaced, which is about equivalent to 540 progressive lines). The REAL Full HD resolution is 1920x1080 (1080 lines progressive! not interlaced). The ALIS resolution is actually LESS than most other plasma TVs at 1360x768 or 1024x768 (768 progressive lines is better than 540 progressive/1080 interlaced). And definitely the interlaced nature of Hitachi ALIS panels makes them more difficult to set up with HTPCs.

LG: Not too much of an impression of LG plasmas. They used to be roughly the same as Samsung but I think Samsung has made big improvements with their plasmas, so its difficult to compete. The price of better Japanese brands like Panasonic are also much lower now.

 

[iMbEst]

somebody just shared about korean plasma.....they seems to have "half-lives" lol! be ready to see the effect months after months.....and got spoilt right after warranty.....

 

[ahber79]

Hi guys,

I'm planning to get a plasma tv due to the better PQ and most of the time I'll be watching SD programs. I'm worried about the burn-in issues as the channels i watch like to display their non-animated logos throughout the whole show. And my normal tv schedule is 2-3 hours of the same channel straight.

Due to budget constraints, I'll like to get the best tv within my budget. Is the 427XG a good time to buy now given that the 428XG has been launched. I've been quoted around $3300 and $2950 if I dun take the home theatre system. And for more warranty, do u guys get it from the shops like harvey norman or best denki, or from pioneer itself? or the tv shouldn't spoil so easily and I should just take the 1 yr base warranty?

 

[iMbEst]

i doubt Pioneer would spoil easily, but if you're unlucky, it can spoil anytime beyond the first year warranty. how come $2950 so ex? from where one? HongLiang already quoted me a few weeks ago, $2888, before negotiation hoh. but I dunno what other stuff the boss is throwing in

The tricky part was.......the launched price with all the freebies and extended warranty would be quite close to 427XG.....somebody said they are going to have year end sale again, so let's see if their price really go up or go down (as what we expected)....

 

[ahber79]

ur quote is good. HL never give me so low quote. Think by the time year end sale, only the 428XG is available and the cheaper 427XG will be gone by then. but seems like the 427XG price never reduce much. hopefully harvey norman got good deals at the upcoming expo sale.

 

[Revuelto]

How much is the 427XG now??? Should get 428XG if not much diff right???

 

[Treble]

ur quote is good. HL never give me so low quote. Think by the time year end sale, only the 428XG is available and the cheaper 427XG will be gone by then. but seems like the 427XG price never reduce much. hopefully harvey norman got good deals at the upcoming expo sale.

$2888 is not meh? I thought bro iMbEst said he hasn't bargained yet leh.....

 

[purpledinosaur]

You should use HDMI to connect to the TV. The best video cards in my experience to use are ATI based ones. Your new TV supports 1080P 60Hz, so that would be what I would set the output of the PC to: 1920x1080 60Hz 32bit colour. Turn off overscaling on the TV.

You could try to switch your desktop to 1360x768 so that its more readable. When you switch your desktop to this resolution, your video card will actually scale it and fit it to either 720P or 1080P (you can use your TV's display to check what signal the input is sending) - hopefully it is 1080P.

Then for video playback, use a media player like Media Player Classic HT which can automatically switch the full-screen video resolution to 1920x1080 60Hz 32bit colour for video playback. This is how I've set up my HTPC - but unlike your TV mine only supports 1080i (1920x1080 30Hz), but there is actually no difference that I can tell, everything is fluid and sharp even for games.

I actually use the FFDSHOW codec to decode my HD content and to do some advanced Spline resampling to 1920x1080 (for my 720P videos), and on top of that using the video card's 3D processing to apply bicubic resampling (A=-0.60) which is controlled by Media Player Classic. I'm pretty sure the video quality is better than anything you can get out of a standard BluRay or HDDVD player. Increased detail with no dot crawl.

You will need at least a Core 2 Duo 2Ghz CPU to play back 1080P videos smoothly though. Recommend to get around the 2.4Ghz to 3Ghz.

Thanks for the detailed reply. However, i do not quite understand what you mean by setting the PC output to 1080p/60 and yet set the desktop to 1360x768. I'm under the impression that the pc output and desktop resolution is the same and can only be set via the control panel -> display settings?

As for video cards, i was recommended to use the 8600 series from nvidia which is suppose to be good for HD decoding. What is your take on this card?

 

[applefreak]

i paid $3940 for the 428 so $2888 for the 427 should be quite a good deal liao right?

 

[ahber79]

i paid $3940 for the 428 so $2888 for the 427 should be quite a good deal liao right?

the 428 has freebies rite? the 427 $2888 is without any freebies... regretted not going to the preview sales...

 

[cal127]

Thanks for the detailed reply. However, i do not quite understand what you mean by setting the PC output to 1080p/60 and yet set the desktop to 1360x768. I'm under the impression that the pc output and desktop resolution is the same and can only be set via the control panel -> display settings?

As for video cards, i was recommended to use the 8600 series from nvidia which is suppose to be good for HD decoding. What is your take on this card?

I don't own a Pio...yet

I think Hardcore meant switching the the setting under options->PC of your plasma using dvi to hdmi connection to accept 1080p/60 signal

If its what he meant I don't think its a good idea cos of the native resolution of 1360X768. Its likely to look 'unnatural' at 1920X1080. You always try to seek 1:1 pixel mapping wherever possible.

As for the graphics its not entirely necessary to get 8600 series. Sure it will help with the decoding process with help on the on chip GPU but a core2duo / quad is the bare minimum for HD playback. Im using 6600gt with e6600 on philips 1080p panel and they play 720/1080p materials flawlessly. CPU usage hovers ard 20-30%. Just make sure it supports the native resolution of your plasma if not use apps like powerstrip to make it work.

 

[iMbEst]

my X60 that comes with onboard video also can do HD lah, dun need what funny sexpensive card one lah.

those who missed the launch, confirm + chop price will be cheaper one.

 

[HardCORE]

I don't own a Pio...yet

I think Hardcore meant switching the the setting under options->PC of your plasma using dvi to hdmi connection to accept 1080p/60 signal

If its what he meant I don't think its a good idea cos of the native resolution of 1360X768. Its likely to look 'unnatural' at 1920X1080. You always try to seek 1:1 pixel mapping wherever possible.

As for the graphics its not entirely necessary to get 8600 series. Sure it will help with the decoding process with help on the on chip GPU but a core2duo / quad is the bare minimum for HD playback. Im using 6600gt with e6600 on philips 1080p panel and they play 720/1080p materials flawlessly. CPU usage hovers ard 20-30%. Just make sure it supports the native resolution of your plasma if not use apps like powerstrip to make it work.

The problem with non full HD TVs (like the Pioneer 508XG) is that there is no way to send non-TV resolutions like 1360x768 over HDMI. The TV will not accept such a resolution over HDMI, it will only accept the standard "HDTV" resolutions like 1280x720 or 1920x1080. So its not possible to achieve the HTPC "holy grail" of 1-to-1 pixel mapping using HDMI in most cases - I think its only possible with full HD 1920x1080 displays that support a "no overscan" option. If you want to try achieving the 1360x768 native resolution, you most likely have to use either the analog VGA input or the DVI input (but most TVs dont have DVI input).

The next best option is to just use the 1920x1080 @ 60Hz which is basically the same resolution as any BluRay/HDDVD/PS3/XBOX360/upscaling-DVD-player output.

 

[HardCORE]

Thanks for the detailed reply. However, i do not quite understand what you mean by setting the PC output to 1080p/60 and yet set the desktop to 1360x768. I'm under the impression that the pc output and desktop resolution is the same and can only be set via the control panel -> display settings?

As for video cards, i was recommended to use the 8600 series from nvidia which is suppose to be good for HD decoding. What is your take on this card?

Actually, its slightly different. When using a DVI or HDMI connection, the display (TV) actually tells the video card what resolutions it can accept. For a TV, normally only the HDTV resolutions are allowed, for example:

1280x720 at 50/60 Hz
1920x1080 at 25/30/50/60 Hz

This data is contained in something called the EDID. So the video card will choose one of these valid resolutions to send to the display.

But, as you are probably aware, most video cards are able to "scale" any desktop resolution to fit the actual resolution of the TV or display. This is similar to laptop screens - lets say the laptop screen resolution is 1024x768, but you are playing an old game that supports only 640x480. Does the game display on only a small box in the middle of the laptop screen? In most newer laptops, no. The laptop's video card will most of the time have an option to "scale" other non-native resolutions (not the resolution of the screen) to "fit" the screen - but of course the non-native resolutions will not look as sharp.

Now back to your HTPC. Some video cards (like the ATI cards) will allow you to choose PC resolutions like 1360x768 even though your display is a HDTV connected using HDMI (which only allows HDTV resolutions like 1920x1080). The video card will then resize your desktop to "fit" the 1920x1080 signal being sent to the TV, so it appears full-screen on the TV. So if you check your Windows Display properties it says maybe 1360x768 but if you check on your TV what signal it is receiving it might say 1080p (1920x1080).

 

[Treble]

anybody tried to feed a 1920x768 or 1280x720 to a 1024x768 plasma successfully? How's the PQ on non-movie stuff? eg, web-surfing, gaming etc?

It'll be a great news to skip the "stretched" suffering.......

 

[applefreak]

the 428 has freebies rite? the 427 $2888 is without any freebies... regretted not going to the preview sales...

the cheapest i've ever seen the 427 is $2099 at HN Central
they were having a promo of some sort
didn't get it coz wanted to see what 428 launch got to offer
topped up $200 to change the DVD player to a 160GB recorder
good deal to me

 

[p105ss]

wahh...i tink i shud bang wall now if it's 2099...i juz bought the set right after the 428 is out ..tot i had a good deal @ $2979.....waiting delivery liaoz..