Poems offering Amundi UT

[Mephist0pheLes]

I assume that Temasek Trust approached multiple platforms, and some said NO for the reasons you have stated, but poems said Yes.

Poems may think the upside is better than the downside. Free media publicity for them, many new account signups - many will go to philips investors centres where the RM can sell them other products.

hmm.. my impression from the posts above is that the advisory is done by moneyowl, not philips

 

[limster]

hmm.. my impression from the posts above is that the advisory is done by moneyowl, not philips

the advisory may not be linked to the Amundi Product, i.e. they are not going to hard sell the product as they are basically a financial advice non-profit. the objective is financial literacy and financial education.

basically, I see this as a replacement for moneysense - which is a govt website so it was restricted as to what products it can recommend. Moneyowl can recommend Amundi, but since they are not making profits from it, they are not pressured to hard-sell Amundi and if the investor want to buy IWDA, its up to them.

I have put in an order for Amundi MSCI World in Poems directly, I don't need to go through moneyowl and I don't even need to know what is moneyowl to buy this....

 

[Epee]

Can I ask what does the 4.5% purchase fees actually means? I have to pay Amundi 4.5% on top of what POEMS charged?

 

[Leaden]

Can I ask what does the 4.5% purchase fees actually means? I have to pay Amundi 4.5% on top of what POEMS charged?

The 4.5% is Sales Charges. Most Unit Trusts have a sales charge of 2-5%. Usually it's financial advisors and relationship managers that charge at this level.

But if you buy online on your own, charges will be lower.
Example:

• Poems sales charge is 0%.
• DBS sales charge is 0.82%

So, you don't have to pay the 4.5% if you buy from Poems.

 

[jeffong]

Seems like still no Amundi Prime USA option in POEMS.. Is it coming?

 

[Epee]

The 4.5% is Sales Charges. Most Unit Trusts have a sales charge of 2-5%. Usually it's financial advisors and relationship managers that charge at this level.

But if you buy online on your own, charges will be lower.
Example:

• Poems sales charge is 0%.
• DBS sales charge is 0.82%

So, you don't have to pay the 4.5% if you buy from Poems.

Ok thanks. Quite ambiguous for them to put it this way.

 

[yslvlys]

From the app, can RSP the Amundi unit trusts. Also can choose cash, cpfoa and srs.

It technically should be 0% sales charges like all other unit trusts RSP. But it is showing 4.5% for RSP, likely not updated in their system yet. So, better wait for them to update their system first.

Or ownself manually buy first, it shows 0% charges.

Ya man like wtf 4.5% sales charge for RSP.. What's wrong with Poems..

 

[CaptainWu]

Ya man like wtf 4.5% sales charge for RSP.. What's wrong with Poems..

Normal charge zero but RSP 4.5%, still think its a mistake but can only find out from them...

 

[JuniorLion]

Seems like still no Amundi Prime USA option in POEMS.. Is it coming?

Nobody in this forum has an answer to this.

 

[mr_beanz]

@BBCWatcher any views on this? Or are you still taking in the info?

This looks like a more cost-effective option than buying and holding Amundi Index MSCI World using CPF OA and SRS monies.

Thanks!

 

[innumerabilis]

If investing using cash, I suppose buying Amundi MSCI World (TER of 0.10%) on POEMS is better than buying VWRA (TER 0.22%) or ISAC (0.2%) on IBKR?

 

[chyn_no]

thinking about this as well... and no transaction fee too!

 

[CaptainWu]

If investing using cash, I suppose buying Amundi MSCI World (TER of 0.10%) on POEMS is better than buying VWRA (TER 0.22%) or ISAC (0.2%) on IBKR?

Good one! For replacing VWRA then need to combine both MSCI World and MSCI EM, this drives up little bit of TER but still be far lower.

 

[mr_beanz]

If investing using cash, I suppose buying Amundi MSCI World (TER of 0.10%) on POEMS is better than buying VWRA (TER 0.22%) or ISAC (0.2%) on IBKR?

I wish to seek views and clarity on this too.

IWDA, VWRA and ISAC are Irish domiciled etfs. As such, they are subject to a withholding tax of only 15% (as compared to 30%) when dividends are paid from a stock or ETF domiciled in the US. Not sure about Amundi MSCI World.

Having said that, Amundi MSCI World's TER is 0.1% which is lower than the TER of IWDA, ISAC and VWRA. Poems now doesn't charge platform and transaction fees.

Buying IWDA, VWRA and ISAC via IBKR involves currency conversion and transaction fees (which is very low).

On the balance, buying Amundi MSCI World may be the more cost-effective option. But i am unsure and wish to seek further views and clarity. Thanks!

 

[CaptainWu]

If I am not wrong UT and ETF subjected to the same withholding tax rate. Amundi UT domiciled in Europe so tax rate should be no different to VWRA as an example, so probably the TER plays the most important part in this case.

Expert please chip in if I am wrong. Thanks.

 

[JustDoLor]

For The Amundi Index MSCI World, class A12S (C).

Just to share some data I found out of curiosity after checking on the various documents. I am not pro so can’t comment much.

Referring to CPFOA approved list, s/n 22, the expense ratio is 0.17%
Source : (4-Nov-2024)
https://www.cpf.gov.sg/content/dam/web/member/business-partners/documents/RCSUT_ListA.pdf

Referring to the fund prospectus page 21:

1. Management fees: 0.08%
2. Admin fees: 0.1%

==> expense ratio is 0.18% !?


Referring to the fund factsheet:

1. Management fees and other administrative or operating costs: 0.1%
2. Transaction cost 0.04%
3. Conversion cost 1%

So is this 0.1% shows on the factsheet the latest revised “expense ratio”? Can’t they just replace that long string of text as TER?

 

[s0crates]

If I am not wrong UT and ETF subjected to the same withholding tax rate. Amundi UT domiciled in Europe so tax rate should be no different to VWRA as an example, so probably the TER plays the most important part in this case.

Expert please chip in if I am wrong. Thanks.

You are wrong.

Quote from Endowus

"Also, a fund using E-mini futures to replicate the S&P 500 index will not be subject to any dividend-withholding tax, because there are no dividends to be had. This means that the index fund using synthetic replication will benefit from an additional 15% of dividend values compared to UCITS ETFs, and an additional 30% when compared to UCITS unit trusts and US-domiciled ETFs."

https://endowus.com/insights/blackrock-ishares-passive-index-funds

 

[s0crates]

@blurpandasg2014 great info

Looks like it's really real this time.

"Access Amundi’s low-cost global indexed funds with no advisory or platform fees via POEMS – brought to you by MoneyOwl."

https://www.moneyowl.com.sg/owlinvest/

Seems like it's not re-packaged into a portfolio product to collect "advisory fees". They just simply put some public education thing on their website to teach people how to allocate the amundi funds.
We can ownself invest directly with Poems without going through MoneyOwl.

Is MoneyOwl doing this as a social cause?

bcos ifast had been the backend of the original moneyowl and the current moneyowl is a new biz with new partner?

also not all platforms can sell dimensional funds that moneyowl had previously. i dont recall poems selling dimensional funds.

and i dont think her original client was locked into ifast at any point, they are free to switch away to other platforms be it Endowus, new moneyowl or any other platforms, so i dunno what's the issue.

how is poems or moneyowl going to make money if they are not charging anything? any hidden fees?

The commercial angle of this doesn't make sense. It's a loss maker to attract AUM... but what if people only buy the loss maker?? Lol everyone of the IBKR/VWRA (including me) fanbois are terrible clients for fund platform and brokerage alike.

If the majority of clients who shifted in because of Amundi MSCI index don't speculate and trade frequently then there is no legs to this arrangement period. It's imo the exact same reason why moomoo/tiger don't bother to offer LSE products, because they don't want to serve ucits ETFs buy and holders.

About moneyowl ... Don't read too much into the social enterprise angle la. Poems offer it cheap they just recommend some index funds. The level of sophistication is nothing. They didn't even launch the fund and we are stuck with POEMs ugly interface.

If you think recommending your friends to use IBKR is difficult, imagine getting them on POEMS LOL!

now what should I do with my 6 figure Amundi MSCI World holding on endowus....

 

[CaptainWu]

You are wrong.

Quote from Endowus

"Also, a fund using E-mini futures to replicate the S&P 500 index will not be subject to any dividend-withholding tax, because there are no dividends to be had. This means that the index fund using synthetic replication will benefit from an additional 15% of dividend values compared to UCITS ETFs, and an additional 30% when compared to UCITS unit trusts and US-domiciled ETFs."

https://endowus.com/insights/blackrock-ishares-passive-index-funds

Its different case for iShare one and I know there is no dividend and of course no dividend withholding, what about the Amundi one that we are talking about if you know?

 

[limster]

If you think recommending your friends to use IBKR is difficult, imagine getting them on POEMS LOL!

Poems has physical branches. My elderly relative who are retired and plenty of time were happy to go down to their nearby Bukit Batok branch to open account and chit chat with the RM there. So far haven't been conned into buying ILP yet and I have convinced them to buy the LionGlobal All Seasons Fund (I tell them its LionGlobal is OCBC they feel reassured) Now I have to convince them to buy Amundi. Maybe I tell them its recommended by Temasek Trust....

If your friends are younger and internet savvy, the poems interface is no problem to use. If the friend is really so clueless about the poems website, then join the aunties and uncles and go down to physical branch....