Proposal Ring - Part 4

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chesterchew

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ririssi said:
Happy national day! Please help me to see if this is a good proportion as I have placed deposit on it. Thank you!

AGS104117538051
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Proportions for the Decagon is super tight already. It's even in the top 5% zone within the AGS Ideal range.

''The Decagon 10HA went through 1 year of R&D
between Paul Hung and Brock Wilke, to finalize the exact zenith
proportions perfect for the Decagon 10HA. Paul further narrowed
down the proportions to 5% of the original zenith to ensure the
most optimized angle for every Decagon''

https://online.flippingbook.com/view/229547553/
 
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hell92

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Calling for assistance from diamond experts here. I recently got hold of a lab diamond and the jeweller claimed that it's a Super Ideal cut. The HCA is 2.4 and symmetry seems a bit off for Super Ideal, so I wanted to double-check with the experts here.

IGI report here: https://www.igi.org/reports/verify-your-report?r=LG520291853

Video here: https://www.ritani.com/products/1-2...vvs2-clarity-igi-lg520291853-sku-d-787lbai8zx

ASET image: https://preview.redd.it/06dwed9ofhh...bp&s=0d6856e6be67770e6ac15c708fc77c7a38ed8d5f
IS image: https://preview.redd.it/fdmerzqmfhh...bp&s=d16d146184a75e095d981d0040be9c648e80412b

Any feedback will be greatly appreciated.
 
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olivesandT

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hell92 said:
Calling for assistance from diamond experts here. I recently got hold of a lab diamond and the jeweller claimed that it's a Super Ideal cut. The HCA is 2.4 and symmetry seems a bit off for Super Ideal, so I wanted to double-check with the experts here.

IGI report here: https://www.igi.org/reports/verify-your-report?r=LG520291853

Video here: https://www.ritani.com/products/1-2...vvs2-clarity-igi-lg520291853-sku-d-787lbai8zx

ASET image: https://preview.redd.it/06dwed9ofhh...bp&s=0d6856e6be67770e6ac15c708fc77c7a38ed8d5f
IS image: https://preview.redd.it/fdmerzqmfhh...bp&s=d16d146184a75e095d981d0040be9c648e80412b

Any feedback will be greatly appreciated.
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Whoever your vendor is, they just heavily abused the term super ideal. Already HCA above 2 is rejected as even an ideal and the aset is totally off in symmetry and proportions. Even more so in lab grown diamonds where rough wastage is not an issue and the high abundance of it, even more so to be picky on the cut.

Edit: Oh just saw it’s from Ritani, Ritani isn’t known known for their quality for their diamonds
 
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hell92

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olivesandT said:
Whoever your vendor is, they just heavily abused the term super ideal. Already HCA above 2 is rejected as even an ideal and the aset is totally off in symmetry and proportions. Even more so in lab grown diamonds where rough wastage is not an issue and the high abundance of it, even more so to be picky on the cut.

Edit: Oh just saw it’s from Ritani, Ritani isn’t known known for their quality for their diamonds
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I got it from a local jeweller who likely had access to the same inventory as Ritani. According to experts I consulted on Pricescope, the ASET/IS images pass the mark for Super Ideal in terms of light return: https://www.pricescope.com/communit...d-opinion-on-lab-diamond.274753/#post-5159973. Not sure how important symmetry is to the whole Super Ideal definition as the light return i.e. the sparkle is what the ladies look out for anyways.
 
1000smiles

1000smiles

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hell92 said:
I got it from a local jeweller who likely had access to the same inventory as Ritani. According to experts I consulted on Pricescope, the ASET/IS images pass the mark for Super Ideal in terms of light return: https://www.pricescope.com/communit...d-opinion-on-lab-diamond.274753/#post-5159973. Not sure how important symmetry is to the whole Super Ideal definition as the light return i.e. the sparkle is what the ladies look out for anyways.
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Ermm. They all said it’s not a super ideal cut le. It’s not just the symmetry that is off. Reason being, scope images are static and you’re seeing it at a perfect 90 degree face front. But that doesn’t meant that the diamond will be as high performing at other angles. Eg, at 85, 80, 75, 70 degrees, etc. At those angles, it’s possible to suddenly have a massive light leakage. So in order for the ASET or Ideal scope to make sense, the basic foundation is for the diamond to be symmetrical in the first place. If not, all you’re doing is analyzing the diamond just at one specific angle, while the other angles will be distorted. That’s why they’re saying that you should at least have the Hearts and Arrows scope too, if not, it technically can’t be called a Hearts/Arrows diamond.
 
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hell92

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lowzeewee said:
IMHO based on the price point as well, it is fine unless you want to get super technical about it like the many JannPaul fans in this thread.
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Agreed, I believe it's definitely not the perfect Super Ideal cut that JannPaul offers, but it is at least $1k cheaper than JannPaul for the specification of D colour and VVS2. The differences compared to the perfect Super Ideal cut are likely minute and not noticeable to the average layman.
 
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hell92

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princelester said:
Hi, have a newbie qn. Does GIA grade lab grown diamonds?
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GIA does grade lab diamonds, but these diamonds usually come at a premium. IGI is still preferred for lab as it is cheaper and the quality tbh is on par or sometimes even stricter than GIA for lab diamonds (). Also, it’s easier to compare IGI lab diamonds as most lab diamonds are IGI graded. I recommend just going for IGI graded diamond and save the money.
 
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CutiePie84

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hell92 said:
GIA does grade lab diamonds, but these diamonds usually come at a premium. IGI is still preferred for lab as it is cheaper and the quality tbh is on par or sometimes even stricter than GIA for lab diamonds (). Also, it’s easier to compare IGI lab diamonds as most lab diamonds are IGI graded. I recommend just going for IGI graded diamond and save the money.
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The quote is from Ada diamonds. You should read the rest of Ada's reddit posts too and their website.
Ada does alot of filtering of their lab grown diamonds into their inventory, as most lab grown diamonds are poorly grown.

https://www.adadiamonds.com/good-vs-bad-lab-diamonds
- Low quality lab diamonds are cheaper to produce and get sold to unsuspecting members of the public via budget e-commerce web sites.
- Just because two lab diamonds received the same 4Cs grading does not mean they will look the same.
- High Pressure High Temperature (HPHT) diamonds with excess boron can have a blue tinge and phosphorescence. Irradiated HPHT diamonds with excess titanium and aluminum can look gray. Chemical Vapor Deposition (CVD) diamonds that were grown too quickly can look brown. CVD diamonds with iterative growth patterns can appear lifeless and cloudy. CVD diamonds can also have black surface inclusions from excess polycrystalline. CVD diamonds grown on cheap seeds can have blurriness from crystal strain and graining.
- These elements are not obvious at first glance to a non lab diamond expert. These characteristics also reduce resale value.
- Beautiful lab diamonds take patience. The faster you grow a diamond, regardless of method, the worse the quality. Growing colorless, high clarity diamonds is much more time consuming and expensive than growing dark, heavily included diamonds. While diamond growth technology has improved, many growers who are capable of producing nice diamonds actively choose to grow ugly ones because it is so much cheaper to do so.
- Some growers take short-cuts like HPHT treatment, irradiation, and bad cutting methods to produce as many lab diamonds as possible. But those ugly diamonds are not worthy of an Ada Diamonds client.
- There are a number of nascent diamond growers around the globe contributing to an abundant supply of bad lab diamonds. These diamonds are grown quickly and cheaply and then sold on budget ecommerce sites to unsuspecting members of the public.

Ada diamonds already cherry picks the IGI lab growns, to weed out those that have inflated gradings. Plus this is based on a sample size of only 17 diamonds. It's hard to use this as an accurate date, when the sample size is very small, and the 17 diamonds are already filtered to be the better ones by themselves. What they are trying to say is in Adas diamonds, their IGI certified stones that are picked out by Ada, have consistent grades.
They recommend IGI certs to save cost. But if you see their prices, they are selling the diamonds very high.
A 1.2ct+ D-E, IF-VVS2, costs SGD 8,300 - 10,300 (with taxes). That's like double the market price... and for a normal 57 facets round.
Comparing the price for an IGI certified diamond, and them recommending IGI because its cheaper doesn't really make sense. lol

Also, the sample size only mentions about Color and Clarity. There are other gradings like the Cut, Polish and Symmetry, Fluorescence, etc. to consider.
IGI Cut parameter is also known to be the worse amongst the labs.

IGI was one of the first lab to jump into certifying lab growns. GIA, AGS, GCAL only followed later after doing more research to standardize their grading.
The quality of lab grown diamonds has changed over the years, but are still very mixed. There are off undertone hues issue of gray, brown, blue, striation issues, birefringence, etc. (which Ada says they filter out).
These issues are all mixed into the mass majority of growers in China, which is also IGI. A singular retailer like Ada diamond, would work with 1 lab in 1 country. But this does not apply to all IGI certs around the world, where there are different IGI labs with different standards.

This guy submitted the same stone to different IGI labs and got different gradings - https://www.diamonds.pro/education/igi/
So essentially, diamond companies would choose the IGI labs that give the best grading. lol
I'm assuming the test was probably done for naturals and not lab growns. Though I still think it's very weird that a lab would have a different set of standards for naturals vs lab growns. It's not ethically right IMO.
That being said, GIA does have different labs in different countries too. But they are reputable because the different labs have consistent standards.
AGS only has 1 lab in the US. So quality control would be easier for them.

Another good read about certificate comparison,
https://www.moltenore.co/post/compa...aboratories-the-ultimate-diamond-buying-guideSimilar to EGL, personally I would not purchase diamonds with [IGI] certificate too. Or if I have to, I would be more cautious. There are also times where IGI has reported to give 2-3 grades better than GIA/AGS.

However, we have also heard of some companies who choose to send their stones to IGI instead to attain a better grade on paper. Many consumers have paid much more for an IGI graded diamond thinking they actually had good deal. Do remember that most diamond prices are based on GIA's standards. So if you convert it to GIA's grading, how much would your diamond now be worth?

I would just say, buy at your own risk. Many customers who seek regrading at GIA or AGS have reported receiving discrepancies in their certificates.

It's not easy for a buyer to filter out poor undertones, striation, etc. for lab grown diamonds. It can only be seen under certain types of lightings. If you buy an IGI diamond off the bat, you are in big danger with all these things. Not to mention the extremely loose cut grade, which is why Ada needs to cherry pick the best out of the lot. And Ada warns against public e-commerce sites as these are where all these problematic diamond gets sold to unsuspecting consumers. Though they do charge a high premium for filtering those out. But them charging that amount for IGI cert and saying that IGI certs saves more money.. doesn't make sense.

I checked the cost to certify a diamond with GIA.
https://www.gia.edu/doc/Lab_FeeSchedule_LabGrown_EN_USD_2022_0701.pdfFor a lab grown 1ct, it's USD 125. It's really not expensive. I don't know how much cheaper IGI charges, but even if it costs 50% less, that's only about a USD 62 price difference.
I don't think the savings for USD 62 is worth it to risk everything else.

IGI is also know for their inflated valuations too. Though not all diamonds from IGI might necessarily be bad, the likelihood of picking a consistent grading from them is low. It requires alot of filtering not just in the basic grades, but physical inspection too (just like what Ada diamonds said).

Btw, IGI was recently sold to a China giant company, Fosun. Fosun China owns several jewellery brands in China. The purpose of getting a certification in the first place is to get a 3rd party unbiasedness in the grading. Now you have a China company that owns the lab, selling diamonds that they certify themselves. That leaves alot of pondering..
 
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greenerpasture

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I will take AGS over IGI any time of the day. Adas diamond post is an advertisement post for themselves la. Everyone who deep dive into Pricescope, knows IGI is basically gambling
 
ChoiSeungHyun

ChoiSeungHyun

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Finally went down to Jannpaul earlier this week after reading this thread for past few weeks.
Selected this diamond on the spot and pair it with the petite series band (with some melee diamonds on it). Hopefully its a good choice despite my limited diamond/ring knowledge.

AGS number 104119034046

Will be collecting the ring in mid-Oct.
Hopefully it pairs well the my SO (finger size 10) :s13:


Example of the petite ring band:
jWCrxl8.png
 
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Puipui1990

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Hi all,

Finally received the scope videos from JP, will need shifus here to help me vet through please. Looks ok to my noob eyes, anything i am missing out? Thanks all!!







 
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freewilly5000

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Puipui1990 said:
Hi all,

Finally received the scope videos from JP, will need shifus here to help me vet through please. Looks ok to my noob eyes, anything i am missing out? Thanks all!!







Click to expand...


The scopes are all very good. The rotational Aset video shows your decagon is a v high performing one with all those red areas. Very symmetrical too!
 
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