Some random facts about 三国

[ponpokku]

but we won't know for sure if wei Yan could succeed..and wei yan crack troops would be a shock force to Wei.

lol in chinese history some other guy did tried the exact same route, exact same tactic, and he was pwned dip dip by the defender.

1636AD, cao yingxiang, uncle of li zicheng rebellion forces, took the same proposed route to attack xi'an (chang'an), and was ambushed by ming imperial forces on the other side of the valley. he was caught alive and executed in beijing.

there was so far no success story but at least 1 failed story. failure rate so far 100%.

 

[yummie]

Your this reply got point.
But the problem with 蜀is that it is so much easier to defend than attack. Why can't they use 秦strategy to attract people over and eventually grow until super strong?

that could be one way out. but the easier way out would be through spying and bribing officials in wei and wu. that was what Qin did before sending soldiers to defeat the 6 states, go and read up wei liao zi art of war. he was the one who helped Qin shihuang in all the ji mo. even Sun Zi empahsises on spies, after diplomacy, last resort is fighting

 

[ponpokku]

why don't u provide ur readings and sources here?

do i have to provide ZGL's official ranks? lol if ppl discussing him dun even have any idea what his job scope was, then what was the point of discussion?

 

[yummie]

lol in chinese history some other guy did tried the exact same route, exact same tactic, and he was pwned dip dip by the defender.

1636AD, cao yingxiang, uncle of li zicheng rebellion forces, took the same proposed route to attack xi'an (chang'an), and was ambushed by ming imperial forces on the other side of the valley. he was caught alive and executed in beijing.

there was so far no success story but at least 1 failed story. failure rate so far 100%.

well, u seem knowledgable, why not telling us ur sources, so we can read up as well. wonder why u not sharing?

 

[sleepyhealer]

Your this reply got point.
But the problem with 蜀is that it is so much easier to defend than attack. Why can't they use 秦strategy to attract people over and eventually grow until super strong?

The people doesn't want to go into Shu cos culturally slightly different from the central plain. The weather and the geographic also very different.

Not only that many find it difficult to uproot especially when they are not in the war zone.

Farmers on wu and wei to uproot to shu a place of uncertain will be difficult as they are mostly stable in their homeland. No point risking to go to a new state where we will not know if war will wipe it off.

Qin situation is different. They already have existed for many years and that the farmers found it more incentive to go qin as they could profit more

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[yummie]

do i have to provide ZGL's official ranks? lol if ppl discussing him dun even have any idea what his job scope was, then what was the point of discussion?

then why not share ur sources to spread ur knowledge and educate us??? just asking to share ur knwledge

 

[OngHuatHuat]

then have to attract talent from the other 2 states, like what happen during the warring states, each were vying for talents from schools and from each other and from their own countries among the common folks

Just like you play strategy games, other people keep harassing you in small groups, you build towers and defend, then expand multiple gold mines, multiple bases and super a lot armies behind the towers.
Then wait for one opportunity(when enemy is weak), strike once and eliminate it. Too bad that it is 魏that uses that strategy fighting against 蜀。

 

[Toiletpaper80]

KNN. i see so many sexpert wannabe here all talk cock and talk like our MIW paper generals..

listen to geliang!!

in conclusion... shu after liu bei up lorry... under ZG liang reign, in actual facts,

the best avenue was to grow internally first. They didn't really have to northern expedition 6 to 7 times like ZG liang has stipulated.. it in fact was never necessary AT ALL!!

it was proven many times, ZG liang was never a real able war time general, advisor or even commander. He was just a good politician.. good with words and inspirational speakers like Chee Soon Juan..

If shu was able to maintain their current forces of say 100k to 150k.. and grow it to 200k.. this forces would be good enough to contain Cao wei forces of 600k even if Cao full force and activate entire wei army into shu mountainous territories.

just use your cow sense to think..even cao got 1 million army...u think they will mobilise 1 million into shu area? it will be suicidal.. and any dong gua dao hu.. these 1 million will uplorry faster.. When will cao wei so stupid mobilize so many people to attack shu... and let Wu with an empty Vast piece of land of central plain like a sitting duck? most is wei will only activate 400k to wack shu..

if shu can always maintain a healthy forces of 200 to 250 at shu and within shu.. or at hanzhong.. 400k of wei can never take down shu....at least in 6months it is not possible...

That is why, i say.. ZG liang kum gong!! and naive to waste shu resources to keep wacking wei!!!! and the theory of attcking wei to prevent them from becoming even strong is wrong!!! the fundaamental is always strengthen own self first always for a long and stronger foundation...

And NOT to kajiao others before oneself foundation is even stable yet and strong enough..

but ge liang ish pioneer generation wor...

 

[ponpokku]

You should quote yummie but not me.
I din support Wei Yan plan either, coz even if he succeed, Shu army cannot withstand waves of reinforcements from Wei on plain land.

Without jingzhou, his plan is definitely fail. He should have some patience and wait for 魏to go down.

lol there is no way that he can whack chang'an becos his troops were no match against caocao. to be precise, he lacked horsemen.

the other reason he kept trying to take down liangzhou, besides under-defended by wei and harassment on wei, ish becos it is a hilly area a bit like sichuan. shu army mainly consist of foot soldiers with little cavalry, ard 1/10 niah. thats why he avoided lowland conflicts with caocao's army cos caocao got a lot of horseman. hilly regions ish more advantageoue to shu than caocao.

caocao got a lot of horsemen since he subdued the gongsun family in beijing area. the northern barbs provided him with lots of horses.

 

[woodzero]

Your this reply got point.
But the problem with 蜀is that it is so much easier to defend than attack. Why can't they use 秦strategy to attract people over and eventually grow until super strong?

Just look at the territory mass of Shu vs Wei and Qin vs the other 6 states. Wei at this point of time is already considered imbalance, and give wei 10-20 years they will be able to take down Shu without any problem.

Just imagine Shu is a pond and Wei is a lake, by multiplying the population and resources Wei will still come out as the winner. The fate of Shu was already sealed when jing zhou was lost, I believe zgl knew this but got no choice to try in order to protect liu bei territory.

 

[ponpokku]

then why not share ur sources to spread ur knowledge and educate us??? just asking to share ur knwledge

ZGL's official posts ish easily available on the net, he was a junshi and then promoted to become prime minister eventually. most of his job scope is not a military commander fighting at the frontline, but planner and coordinator in the back office.

that should be common sense in 3 kingdoms discussions.

 

[yummie]

ZGL's official posts ish easily available on the net, he was a junshi and then promoted to become prime minister eventually. most of his job scope is not a military commander fighting at the frontline, but planner and coordinator in the back office.

that should be common sense in 3 kingdoms discussions.

Well i am interested to know where u get ur knowledge becos ur knowledge is above average. N net could be hard to verify its sources. Why not be generous in sharing ur sources?
N why u keep sharing abt ZGL rank when i am asking abt ur sources. I am sincere in asking u.

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[ponpokku]

Dunno why you keep linking back to singapore. But one of the reasons why 蜀gg is due to lack of talent to succeed 诸葛亮。

1 姜维is not enough.

like i said in another post, thats not the case. jiangwan and feiji had run the state of shu well in the next 2 decades after ZGL's death, compared to wei, the cao royal family kena makan by cao shuang and sima clan in 19yrs.

even jiangwei was doing OK in the beginning. he made a series of small successes against wei during the first few campaigns until about mid 240s AD. but he lost one of the campaigns with major losses to personnel and the men blamed him, the court officials tried to oust him. then he moved far away to east of hanzhong and refused to go back chengdu worrying that he will be fixed. north and northeast of shu were thus defenseless and eventually wei garnered enuff resources to launch a massive attack.

 

[ponpokku]

Well i am interested to know where u get ur knowledge becos ur knowledge is above average. N net could be hard to verify its sources. Why not be generous in sharing ur sources?
N why u keep sharing abt ZGL rank when i am asking abt ur sources. I am sincere in asking u.

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read the historical records of the 3 kingdoms.

 

[yummie]

read the historical records of the 3 kingdoms.

Well, u could call me lazy, but could u provide the link here?

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[ponpokku]

Well, u could call me lazy, but could u provide the link here?

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yah u are lazy. so buckle up and do a search urself.

my link?

go buy the book.

 

[YW1015]

So many knowledgable sexperts.

I only watch 3 Kingdom TV serials..

 

[OngHuatHuat]

like i said in another post, thats not the case. jiangwan and feiji had run the state of shu well in the next 2 decades after ZGL's death, compared to wei, the cao royal family kena makan by cao shuang and sima clan in 19yrs.

even jiangwei was doing OK in the beginning. he made a series of small successes against wei during the first few campaigns until about mid 240s AD. but he lost one of the campaigns with major losses to personnel and the men blamed him, the court officials tried to oust him. then he moved far away to east of hanzhong and refused to go back chengdu worrying that he will be fixed. north and northeast of shu were thus defenseless and eventually wei garnered enuff resources to launch a massive attack.

You view military success as success for 北伐，but I view long term stability and economy success as real success and viable solution for the country.
No matter how many times they won small battles, as long as they are not fundamentally strong, they will lose.

 

[ponpokku]

You view military success as success for 北伐，but I view long term stability and economy success as real success and viable solution for the country.
No matter how many times they won small battles, as long as they are not fundamentally strong, they will lose.

there is no long term without northern campaign.

a hungry man ask u to give him some food. u tell him 3mths later u will make big money and give him sharksfin soup, but he'll already be long dead by then.

jiangwei lost his 9th campaign in 256AD, retreat to east of hanzhong, 6yrs later shu kena conquered.

ZGL and his followers conducted northern campaign consistently with calculated loss, shu sustained for 30yrs.

 

[yummie]

yah u are lazy. so buckle up and do a search urself.

my link?

go buy the book.

So where to buy the book?

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