SQ Redemption Devaluation

[oceanicmanta]

Just ended a long call with SQ. They said yes it's $20, but it's considered as ticket reissuance and hence will need to top up the miles. So this strategy ain't gonna work.

Spoke to another KF CSO & she also clarified that "extending ticket validity" means re-issuing a new ticket & new terms apply. (first CSO did not explain it involves re-issuance). This point is now clear.

Separately, she also confirmed that Date Change, if requested within validity period, does not require ticket re-issuance. The Travel Date can be changed to beyond ticket expiry date. No need to top up.

I am more concerned with Date Change, as I want to travel end Mar 2018, so looking to ticket now, & have option to change to a later departure date once redemption is open.

 

[dahnoob]

Spoke to another KF CSO & she also clarified that "extending ticket validity" means re-issuing a new ticket & new terms apply. (first CSO did not explain it involves re-issuance). This point is now clear.

Separately, she also confirmed that Date Change, if requested within validity period, does not require ticket re-issuance. The Travel Date can be changed to beyond ticket expiry date. No need to top up.

I am more concerned with Date Change, as I want to travel end Mar 2018, so looking to ticket now, & have option to change to a later departure date once redemption is open.

No offense here, what is the amount involved, both in miles and in YQ?

 

[oceanicmanta]

No offense here, what is the amount involved, both in miles and in YQ?

none taken.

I m looking to use up all of my (meagre) 111k miles for 2pax, hopefully get to try Suites

First choice, HK (if date change to late Mar18 is ok), so no YQ.

2nd, Melbourne & Sydney but not enuf points now, so will have to book later

3rd - One-way F to Tokyo, YQ is SGD 90 per pax.

 

[feist_]

guys i use DBS Altitude and Woman's card to earn my miles so the value of each mile to me is like.. 1 cent-ish? or less? By that definition it seems cheaper now that the miles will cover the taxes? Did i get it wrong?

Can someone kind explain please I'm very bad with math!

 

[elnewbie]

Under the new system, only fuel surcharges and insurance is removed. You still must pay in real dollars, the airport taxes and security fees etc.

It's a bad scheme. Under the new system, my additional miles to Japan are only valued at 0.008 per mile in business class. Shocking.

guys i use DBS Altitude and Woman's card to earn my miles so the value of each mile to me is like.. 1 cent-ish? or less? By that definition it seems cheaper now that the miles will cover the taxes? Did i get it wrong?

Can someone kind explain please I'm very bad with math!

 

[dahnoob]

none taken.

I m looking to use up all of my (meagre) 111k miles for 2pax, hopefully get to try Suites

First choice, HK (if date change to late Mar18 is ok), so no YQ.

2nd, Melbourne & Sydney but not enuf points now, so will have to book later

3rd - One-way F to Tokyo, YQ is SGD 90 per pax.

First of all, I don't think it's worth to burn 75k per pax on a 4 hour flight in suites.

Second, 111k is not enough for SIN-HKG return in R for 2. You would need 127.5k, unless you are looking at flying R in 1 segment and J in the other. Suppose you go this route, the optimal arrangement would be flying R outbound and J inbound, because you get TPR access while in SIN. That said, SQ860 departs 8am in the morning, and TPR only opens at 0530. Realistically you would want to be at the airport on time and skip TPR, which is a part of the 'suites experience' that you wanted to try out.

For Australia, you're looking at 300k before discount or 255k after discount, I don't think there's a way to earn 140k miles in 6 days.

For Tokyo, you have just enough for 1 way in F. Suites are not offered on this route, so you're out of luck if you wanna try the product. Of the 2 flights, SQ11/12 is preferred over SQ637/638, due to the flight time. However, as SQ11/12 connects to/from LAX, availability is scarce. Even if you find availability for 1 leg, you still have to pay cash for the other leg.

I don't think your situation is suitable to make a hasty redemption before next week, and I would recommend accumulating more miles for a more decent redemption. Granted, the places that you're looking at going generally have no benefits from the YQ removal, but there are other routes that don't take as big as hit.

 

[Tyrhung]

First of all, I don't think it's worth to burn 75k per pax on a 4 hour flight in suites.

Second, 111k is not enough for SIN-HKG return in R for 2. You would need 127.5k, unless you are looking at flying R in 1 segment and J in the other. Suppose you go this route, the optimal arrangement would be flying R outbound and J inbound, because you get TPR access while in SIN. That said, SQ860 departs 8am in the morning, and TPR only opens at 0530. Realistically you would want to be at the airport on time and skip TPR, which is a part of the 'suites experience' that you wanted to try out.

For Australia, you're looking at 300k before discount or 255k after discount, I don't think there's a way to earn 140k miles in 6 days.

For Tokyo, you have just enough for 1 way in F. Suites are not offered on this route, so you're out of luck if you wanna try the product. Of the 2 flights, SQ11/12 is preferred over SQ637/638, due to the flight time. However, as SQ11/12 connects to/from LAX, availability is scarce. Even if you find availability for 1 leg, you still have to pay cash for the other leg.

I don't think your situation is suitable to make a hasty redemption before next week, and I would recommend accumulating more miles for a more decent redemption. Granted, the places that you're looking at going generally have no benefits from the YQ removal, but there are other routes that don't take as big as hit.

Gotta give you an applause for the detailed breakdown of each route. And with suggestion. Thumbs up

 

[Joseph99]

hi .. i have yet to redeem any trip before and with this change.. i am a bit confused .. hope someone can help me ..

i have 68K points now and able to redeem business class to Korea..
i saw that the redemption is 68K points + $410.60 ....
for $410.60, it consists of the Airport/Government taxes is $68.60 & Carrier surcharges is $342...

with this new changes, does it means that i need to pay only the airport taxes which is $68.60

hope the expert here can help ...

thank u !

 

[dahnoob]

guys i use DBS Altitude and Woman's card to earn my miles so the value of each mile to me is like.. 1 cent-ish? or less? By that definition it seems cheaper now that the miles will cover the taxes? Did i get it wrong?

Can someone kind explain please I'm very bad with math!

The source of your miles does not influence the value. Suppose you're looking at a 1 way ticket SIN-JFK in J. 3 possible scenarios:

1. Full cash

This will cost you $7,500 in fare + $325 in YQ + $129.30 in taxes

2. Redemption ticketed before 23 Mar

This will cost you 72,250 miles + $325 in YQ + $129.30 in taxes

3. Redemption ticketed after 23 Mar

This will cost you 92,000 miles + $129.30 in taxes

The value of a mile in scenario (2) would be $7,500/72,250 miles = 10.4cpm, because YQ and taxes are paid in both cash or redemption ticket.
The value of a mile in scenario (3) would be ($7,500+$325)/92,000 = 8.5cpm

This is only the absolute value on paper. The perceived value is often way lower, because nobody will pay full cash for a 1 way SIN-JFK in J. Suppose if you were to pay full cash for the same flight, you might want to look at the cheapest fare, which is economy. This will cost you $1,950 in fare + $310.80 in YQ + $129.30 in taxes.

Your perceived value will then be $1,950/72,250 miles = 2.7cpm for scenario (2), and ($1,950 + $310.80) /92,000 miles = 2.5cpm for scenario (3).

The 'real value of a mile' is often somewhere in between, and it varies with route and cabin class. So if someone tells you that a value of a mile can be as much as 10 cents, they're not wrong. If someone else tells you that the value of a mile is only 0.5 cents, they may not be wrong either. The general consensus over the 'reasonable value' of a mile to make a redemption is 2 cents. That is, if you can get at least 2 cents per mile in a redemption, then it's acceptable. If you could only get 1 cent per mile in a redemption, then you're better off paying cash for the ticket.

 

[dahnoob]

hi .. i have yet to redeem any trip before and with this change.. i am a bit confused .. hope someone can help me ..

i have 68K points now and able to redeem business class to Korea..
i saw that the redemption is 68K points + $410.60 ....
for $410.60, it consists of the Airport/Government taxes is $68.60 & Carrier surcharges is $342...

with this new changes, does it means that i need to pay only the airport taxes which is $68.60

hope the expert here can help ...

thank u !

Partially correct.

Before 23 Mar:
68,000 miles + $342 in YQ + $68.60 in taxes

After 23 Mar:
86,000 miles + $68.60 in taxes

This is because of:
1. 15% discount for online redemption is removed
2. Korea falls under zone 7, the new price for 1 way J is 43k miles instead of 40k.

Edit: a bit more information for you below

Your decision should be based on the following:
1. Will you be able to earn 18k more miles before you make the redemption? If not, you don't have a choice and have to issue your ticket before next Thursday.

2. Do you consider saving $342 in cash to justify the 18k increased miles? If yes, perhaps wait till the new system is adopted. If not, make the redemption before next Thursday. $342 against 18k translates to 1.9cpm in 'marginal value', which is really close to 2. I would say follow your personal opinion and judgement.

 

[Joseph99]

Thanks dahnoob for the explantation!

 

[elnewbie]

What about Japan ? The incremental value of my miles in business class is only 0.008. That's not even half of 2 cents. Is it worth redeeming now or wait till after 23/3 ?

Partially correct.

Before 23 Mar:
68,000 miles + $342 in YQ + $68.60 in taxes

After 23 Mar:
86,000 miles + $68.60 in taxes

This is because of:
1. 15% discount for online redemption is removed
2. Korea falls under zone 7, the new price for 1 way J is 43k miles instead of 40k.

Edit: a bit more information for you below

Your decision should be based on the following:
1. Will you be able to earn 18k more miles before you make the redemption? If not, you don't have a choice and have to issue your ticket before next Thursday.

2. Do you consider saving $342 in cash to justify the 18k increased miles? If yes, perhaps wait till the new system is adopted. If not, make the redemption before next Thursday. $342 against 18k translates to 1.9cpm in 'marginal value', which is really close to 2. I would say follow your personal opinion and judgement.

 

[dahnoob]

What about Japan ? The incremental value of my miles in business class is only 0.008. That's not even half of 2 cents. Is it worth redeeming now or wait till after 23/3 ?

I would do it now if you have a confirmed travel plan and date, and there happens to be availability. 18k miles is worth way more than $90 in my opinion.

 

[elnewbie]

That's what I also thought. But I don't have firm dates as I only want to travel in October / Nov 2018. I'm toying with the idea of getting dates in March 2018, as that is how far system
will allow me, then I rebook later this year when the system opens these dates, but that would mean that my original 1 year ticket validity would have been exceeded.

I would do it now if you have a confirmed travel plan and date, and there happens to be availability. 18k miles is worth way more than $90 in my opinion.

 

[oceanicmanta]

thanks Dahnoob for the reply & suggestion ... I can imagine myself 5.30am outside TPR waiting for doors to open

got a poorly crafted written reply from KF, merely pasted standard terms. have replied asking for specific answer to my query on Date Change beyond Validity Date.

 

[dahnoob]

That's what I also thought. But I don't have firm dates as I only want to travel in October / Nov 2018. I'm toying with the idea of getting dates in March 2018, as that is how far system
will allow me, then I rebook later this year when the system opens these dates, but that would mean that my original 1 year ticket validity would have been exceeded.

If your miles are valid until at least Dec 17, you can go for it. In case your plan does not work, you can still cancel the ticket and obtain a full refund of miles + cash if your miles are valid at the time of cancellation. This way you're not really losing anything, except that you lock down 68k miles per pax for about 7 months.

In my initial posts, I've mentioned that the only people who benefit from this date change mechanism are:

1. People whose outbound is on or after 13 March 2018 but before 22 March 2018.
2. People who are waitlisting for a flight and unable to get a confirmation before 23 March 2017.
3. People with unconfirmed exact date of travel, but with confirmed travel plans (i.e. flight, route and cabin class) that take place before 22 March 2018.

thanks Dahnoob for the reply & suggestion ... I can imagine myself 5.30am outside TPR waiting for doors to open

got a poorly crafted written reply from KF, merely pasted standard terms. have replied asking for specific answer to my query on Date Change beyond Validity Date.

The last time I was in TPR before 8am they did not offer the full range of selections from the menu. Instead, a 'watered down' breakfast menu was offered. In my previous posts, the risks involved are already laid out. If you're okay with taking those risks in exchange for ~30k savings in miles, feel free to go for it. Just take note of miles expiry and date change terms.

On a side note, if you're purely looking to experience the suites product, SQ had been allocating 1 A380 daily in and out BKK during the Songkran festival for 2015 and 2016. Although there have been no announcement of it happening this year, you can pay attention to its website or mailers if they release it this year. The dates for this year are 13-15 April.

 

[elnewbie]

For point 1 do u really mean 22 March 2018 ? Anyway, I think it may be worthwhile for me to give it a shot as my miles were transferred in 6 months ago.

If your miles are valid until at least Dec 17, you can go for it. In case your plan does not work, you can still cancel the ticket and obtain a full refund of miles + cash if your miles are valid at the time of cancellation. This way you're not really losing anything, except that you lock down 68k miles per pax for about 7 months.

In my initial posts, I've mentioned that the only people who benefit from this date change mechanism are:

1. People whose outbound is on or after 13 March 2018 but before 22 March 2018.
2. People who are waitlisting for a flight and unable to get a confirmation before 23 March 2017.
3. People with unconfirmed exact date of travel, but with confirmed travel plans (i.e. flight, route and cabin class) that take place before 22 March 2018.



The last time I was in TPR before 8am they did not offer the full range of selections from the menu. Instead, a 'watered down' breakfast menu was offered. In my previous posts, the risks involved are already laid out. If you're okay with taking those risks in exchange for ~30k savings in miles, feel free to go for it. Just take note of miles expiry and date change terms.

On a side note, if you're purely looking to experience the suites product, SQ had been allocating 1 A380 daily in and out BKK during the Songkran festival for 2015 and 2016. Although there have been no announcement of it happening this year, you can pay attention to its website or mailers if they release it this year. The dates for this year are 13-15 April.

 

[dahnoob]

2018 is correct, because on 23 March 2017 you can only make booking up till 13 March 2018 (355 days out). Your ticket is however valid for a year. You can date change to anywhere between 13-22 March 2018 and still have a valid ticket. It's a niche group of people.

If that's the case no harm trying. The only potential loss is 15usd for cancellation if it doesn't work out.

For point 1 do u really mean 22 March 2018 ? Anyway, I think it may be worthwhile for me to give it a shot as my miles were transferred in 6 months ago.

 

[swordspirit]

Partially correct.

Before 23 Mar:
68,000 miles + $342 in YQ + $68.60 in taxes

After 23 Mar:
86,000 miles + $68.60 in taxes

This is because of:
1. 15% discount for online redemption is removed
2. Korea falls under zone 7, the new price for 1 way J is 43k miles instead of 40k.

Edit: a bit more information for you below

Your decision should be based on the following:
1. Will you be able to earn 18k more miles before you make the redemption? If not, you don't have a choice and have to issue your ticket before next Thursday.

2. Do you consider saving $342 in cash to justify the 18k increased miles? If yes, perhaps wait till the new system is adopted. If not, make the redemption before next Thursday. $342 against 18k translates to 1.9cpm in 'marginal value', which is really close to 2. I would say follow your personal opinion and judgement.

try booking 1 way ticket separately. the surcharge will reduce

 

[feist_]

This is like the clearest explanation I've seen.

I was actually valuing it in terms of opportunity cost -- like what I would've done with the points if I weren't redeeming for this. But this is a clearer way of looking at it. Thanks!

The source of your miles does not influence the value. Suppose you're looking at a 1 way ticket SIN-JFK in J. 3 possible scenarios:

1. Full cash

This will cost you $7,500 in fare + $325 in YQ + $129.30 in taxes

2. Redemption ticketed before 23 Mar

This will cost you 72,250 miles + $325 in YQ + $129.30 in taxes

3. Redemption ticketed after 23 Mar

This will cost you 92,000 miles + $129.30 in taxes

The value of a mile in scenario (2) would be $7,500/72,250 miles = 10.4cpm, because YQ and taxes are paid in both cash or redemption ticket.
The value of a mile in scenario (3) would be ($7,500+$325)/92,000 = 8.5cpm

This is only the absolute value on paper. The perceived value is often way lower, because nobody will pay full cash for a 1 way SIN-JFK in J. Suppose if you were to pay full cash for the same flight, you might want to look at the cheapest fare, which is economy. This will cost you $1,950 in fare + $310.80 in YQ + $129.30 in taxes.

Your perceived value will then be $1,950/72,250 miles = 2.7cpm for scenario (2), and ($1,950 + $310.80) /92,000 miles = 2.5cpm for scenario (3).

The 'real value of a mile' is often somewhere in between, and it varies with route and cabin class. So if someone tells you that a value of a mile can be as much as 10 cents, they're not wrong. If someone else tells you that the value of a mile is only 0.5 cents, they may not be wrong either. The general consensus over the 'reasonable value' of a mile to make a redemption is 2 cents. That is, if you can get at least 2 cents per mile in a redemption, then it's acceptable. If you could only get 1 cent per mile in a redemption, then you're better off paying cash for the ticket.