STI ETF

[zzTiny]

individual stock =/= index. Heck, S&P is like -6% ytd? What correction? The correction is too slow.

 

[limster]

individual stock =/= index. Heck, S&P is like -6% ytd? What correction? The correction is too slow.

@limster called it right, Stealth bear market

Liz Ann Sonders calls it a stealth bear market. Maybe I called it first, but I'm a nobody in the investing world, so I don't count

 

[zzTiny]

Liz Ann Sonders calls it a stealth bear market

This call bear? Then 2000, 2008, 2020 is what? Apocalypses?

What is after bear? Opportunity.

 

[revhappy]

This call bear? Then 2000, 2008, 2020 is what? Apocalypses?

What is after bear? Opportunity.

The index hides the pain in the broad markets. Most of the retail favourites are down on average 50%. Some people have lost all the pandemic gains they made. So there is lot of pain out there in individual portfolios, but they won't come out and tell. Look at ARKK, that is like the barometer for the retail favourite stocks.

 

[iceblendedchoc]

yes, individual stocks taken a beating for alot of stocks oh my FB!

 

[weng0202]

Bought using CPF OA at average of 2.95 so sitting on unrealised capital gain and also yummy dividends for years to come. Long term investment so price movement not so crucial and will buy more if price dips below my average.

 

[d5dude]

Dividend play is for 18th century. Total returns is what matters.

Total return has always been the only thing that matters, dividend is just a way for companies to return cash to shareholders, it tells us nothing about the performance of the companies, ultimately companies can only create long term shareholder value thru growing their profits over time.

 

[d5dude]

The most recent person who told me that dividend yield is not important is sitting on 30-50% paper losses from Facebook (Meta) and Grab.

Thats a logical fallacy, there are just as many companies with reasonably high dividend yields but have seen their SP languish over the years, if not decades.

Also remember that FB has generated a ton of value for its investors over the years, it was a $20 stock 10 years ago, its still an 11 bagger today even after the recent crash.

 

[d5dude]

Liz Ann Sonders calls it a stealth bear market. Maybe I called it first, but I'm a nobody in the investing world, so I don't count

Like that STI must have been in a stealth bear market for a decade or more because most of the index constituents have either been kicked out or the SP has only gone lower like Singtel, SPH and SIA.

 

[d5dude]

The index hides the pain in the broad markets. Most of the retail favourites are down on average 50%. Some people have lost all the pandemic gains they made. So there is lot of pain out there in individual portfolios, but they won't come out and tell. Look at ARKK, that is like the barometer for the retail favourite stocks.

This happens in every market, many retail favourites on SGX have also gone to zero in the last 10+ years (many are s chips or penny stocks). This is why I've always cautioned against buying single stocks or worse, chasing "hot stonks".

And you havent studied history if you think index concentration (therefore it hides the pain in the broad markets) is something new. Concentration was far worse 100 or even just 50 years ago. AT&T made up a whopping 13% of the total US market capitalisation in 1932, today the largest stock Apple is 6% of total US market cap. If we take the top 10 largest stocks we get similar results, it was 38% in 1932, today its 25%. So if anything the US stock market is far less concentrated today.

 

[limster]

There are STI haters who will never buy STI ETF (but are very active in threads about STI )

Probably there are some who are the opposite and only hold SG stocks, (ASSI is probably one of the most well known).

While I think that this is not the right time to buy STI ETF, I will certainly buy more STI ETF when it is cheap! Just DYODD and remember, when calculating yield/return/earnings etc, market is forward looking, not backward looking

 

[revhappy]

This happens in every market, many retail favourites on SGX have also gone to zero in the last 10+ years (many are s chips or penny stocks). This is why I've always cautioned against buying single stocks or worse, chasing "hot stonks".

And you havent studied history if you think index concentration (therefore it hides the pain in the broad markets) is something new. Concentration was far worse 100 or even just 50 years ago. AT&T made up a whopping 13% of the total US market capitalisation in 1932, today the largest stock Apple is 6% of total US market cap. If we take the top 10 largest stocks we get similar results, it was 38% in 1932, today its 25%. So if anything the US stock market is far less concentrated today.

You didnt get the point. We are talking about drawdown from 52w high. I will leave you with this chart pretty self explanatory:

 

[d5dude]

You didnt get the point. We are talking about drawdown from 52w high. I will leave you with this chart pretty self explanatory:

Thats the nasdaq comp, its a tech index, not a broad market measure like the S&P500. And you do know that many of these hot speculative growth stonks went up an insane amount since the pandemic right?

Speculation in hot stocks is nothing new, we saw this in 2007 on SGX, and before that in 1996 (before the CLOB blowup). These speculators live and and die by the sword, it has nothing to do with the index (which are mostly made up of a different bunch of stocks).

Its meaningless to look at the stock market thru the lens of short term speculators, just because certain stocks went up 20, 30 or even 50x doesnt mean the entire stock market is in a bubble, likewise when these stocks crash 90% it also doesnt mean anything.

 

[zzTiny]

Theres a basic screening before inclusion into s&p. Although, there are junks in it as well. I forgot the requirement. I don't think speculative stock like Snap is in it. Gotta exclude these stock with s&p. So...

 

[starbugs]

Aiya, those who want to go for "total returns" shouldn't waste their time on folks chatting about STI.

I agree STI is not sexy and I only use my CPF OA on this. With cash, I look for higher yielding stocks and reits, not just in SG.

My point about Facebook is that you could be seeing spectacular gains for three years then returning all the gains in three hours. Steady dividends always give some support to a stock.

 

[churnmaster]

I reinvested in STI towards the end of last year and early this year. Just to improve my returns I even sold some EWS OTM calls. But to my surprise while STI rallied EWS (the underlying) actually dropped. It was only last week that I realized MSCI Singapore Index has SEA as one of its constituents. Double whammy of a different kind and also profitable.

Now, I’m out of STI and into CLR.

 

[light84]

There are STI haters who will never buy STI ETF (but are very active in threads about STI )

Probably there are some who are the opposite and only hold SG stocks, (ASSI is probably one of the most well known).

While I think that this is not the right time to buy STI ETF, I will certainly buy more STI ETF when it is cheap! Just DYODD and remember, when calculating yield/return/earnings etc, market is forward looking, not backward looking

As long as the price is right, any investment can be a good investment

 

[d5dude]

Aiya, those who want to go for "total returns" shouldn't waste their time on folks chatting about STI.

Total return is a term thats used to measure the actual return you get from an investment, its applicable to STI as well, unless you think the share price of stocks on the STI can never go up.

My point about Facebook is that you could be seeing spectacular gains for three years then returning all the gains in three hours.

This is why it pays to be diversified and hold a long term view when it comes to investing in stocks, anyway this is not first time Facebook has suffered such a large drawdown, it was down over 40% in 2018 following the cambridge analytica scandal, today its still roughly +90% above the lows seen in 2018, nobody knows if it will bounce back in the future, this is what diversification is for.

Steady dividends always give some support to a stock.

Until the company stops paying dividends or cut the dividends and the SP tanks. Sembcorp marine used to pay big dividends, now the company is on life support, pays no dividends and the share price is near zero, long term investors who got into the stock for the dividends over 10 years ago would have lost 99% of their investment, regardless of the dividends.

This is proof that dividends is not an accurate predictor of total return (which can sometimes be extremely negative as I demonstrated), which is ultimately what matters in the end.

 

[d5dude]

As long as the price is right, any investment can be a good investment

I wouldnt be so sure about that. Wirecard was a bad investment at $100, it was still a bad investment after it fell to $2.

 

[limster]

At the end of the day, its for each investor to weigh the pros and cons of investing in STI ETF and DYODD. I've shared my STI purchases so you can roughly gauge the return

But I've always wondered whether the STI haters own investment portfolio performance actually beats the STI performance and by how much?

After all, if STI is so bad, must be that the STI haters portfolios should easily beat STI by double, triple, 10x ... so instead of just saying STI ETF bad, I don't know why I haven't seem them sharing their own portfolio and entry prices, so that we can compare, and maybe follow them instead of buying STI ETF

But this year, VWRD might be a better buy if it is correcting... but with my luck, STI will probably outperform VWRD this year.