Syfe Trade

[s0crates]

Yep that’s fine.

awareness is what’s important.

a lot of people dunno what’s PFOF, think “free” = good.

so long as one is making a conscious decision is good enough.

better than being misled by people

but then again, what you don’t see does not necessary “cut the cost and improve returns”.

it just that you aren’t seeing it

I don't think anyone of us here have full visibility of the extent this PFOF platform trades are affecting the implicit cost of trade tho.

Let's say syfe trade is fulfilling trades at 1% worse price than IBKR, would you still choose to daily cost average 100 into a stock, or would just choose to invest $2000 every month through a proper brokerage like IBKR?

If you seen recent reports of how robinhood (also PFOF platform) got downgraded by Goldman, you will realise that the business model is unsustainable (reliant on speculative trading from YPs).

Robinhood also got fined for misleading marketing and have made some uncomsumer friendly decisions with trade restrictions.

If you still want to go with PFOF, get used to getting eaten by hidden implicit costs, being screwed by them somehow in the future, or you really have to scrutinise how trades are fulfilled.

 

[reddevil0728]

I don't think anyone of us here have full visibility of the extent this PFOF platform trades are affecting the implicit cost of trade tho.

Let's say syfe trade is fulfilling trades at 1% worse price than IBKR, would you still choose to daily cost average 100 into a stock, or would just choose to invest $2000 every month through a proper brokerage like IBKR?

If you seen recent reports of how robinhood (also PFOF platform) got downgraded by Goldman, you will realise that the business model is unsustainable (reliant on speculative trading from YPs).

Robinhood also got fined for misleading marketing and have made some uncomsumer friendly decisions with trade restrictions.

If you still want to go with PFOF, get used to getting eaten by hidden implicit costs, being screwed by them somehow in the future, or you really have to scrutinise how trades are fulfilled.

A lot of people choose to be in denial?

cause don’t see = never happen?

it’s like lying to oneself about cost

penny wise pound foolish

 

[dappermen]

I know of the disadvantages but it is fine with me. I am not a big time trader for big boys to look at my buying queues. Just cutting cost as much as possible to improve etf returns holistically

Glad that u r clearly aware of it! Wanna pm-ed u instead of raising it here but couldnt even msg u at all

Which co. will be so silly to announce their PFOF and OPENLY said their bid-ask spread during conversion is eg X% !!? Am i right?

So long one is comfy w the co./app go for it, i shared several youtubers who used them and find their rates reasonable since Jan

cant wait to try??!!! this is Not Sponsored video!!!!!!!!
compare urself

direbmem is kelvin???!!!!!!!!

Just cos none of us know the details / PFOF that doesnt mean anyone of us who shared is Misleading EVERYONE!
just like many never know the secrets /indepth of our sg reserves (no1 will be a stoopiak to announce to the whole world how the reserves function!) that doesnt mean we couldnt discuss or debate ......Life still hve to carry on!

 

[MoneyHoney]

how does pfof affect users?? is it my orders wont get executed because it gets routed to their preferred broker?

 

[dappermen]

orders wont get executed

your orders will alwys get executed professionally as per NORMAL

 

[dappermen]

For those who hve endless qns abt Syfe trade and i can dump all my SYFE trades & ikbr (hated its interface, **** it man) NOW cos:

For ALL, (Effective tonight 11 Apr 2022 regular trading hours onward. No activation is required as it is already applied to your account)
moomoo ie Futu SG is launching ZERO commision on US stocks FOREVER and one-year free period promotion for US stocks platform fee (better than nothing).
For more details and fee adjustments please refer to：https://www.futusg.com/en/fee/stocks/stocks-us Note that US stocks 180-day commission-free promotion will be deactivated if the above campaign is effective. For Terms & Conditions please refer to：https://support.futusg.com/topic365/?lang=en-us [FUTU SG]


US Stocks and ETFs

Type	Fees	Charged by
Commission	$0*	FUTU SG
Platform Fees	$0 for the first year, $0.99 / Order thereafter*	FUTU SG
SEC Fees (sells only)	$0.0000051 * Transaction amount, min $0.01 / Trade	SEC
Settlement Fees	$0.003 / Share	US Settlement Agency etc.
Trading Activity Fees (TAF, sells only)	$0.00013 / Share, min $0.01 / Trade, max $6.49 / Trade	FINRA

Applicable to eligible clients of FUTU SG on US stock trading only, please click here for T&Cs.
Other Fees

Type	Fees	Charged by
ADR Custodian Fees	$0.01~$0.05 / Share	DTC
L2 NYSE ArcaBook Fees	Free after account opening

Notes:


As of 1 April 2022, on top of the existing fees, the goods and services tax (GST) will be levied on relevant pass-through fees, including but not limited to stamp duty, exchange fees, and trading fees, in accordance with the Inland Revenue Authority of Singapore's (IRAS) removal of the GST administrative concession, whereupon all relevant domestic and foreign fees to Singapore Tax Residents will be applicable.

 

[ekardo]

For those who hve endless qns abt Syfe trade and i can dump all my SYFE trades & ikbr (hated its interface, **** it man) NOW cos:

For ALL, (Effective tonight 11 Apr 2022 regular trading hours onward. No activation is required as it is already applied to your account)
moomoo ie Futu SG is launching ZERO commision on US stocks FOREVER and one-year free period promotion for US stocks platform fee (better than nothing).
For more details and fee adjustments please refer to：https://www.futusg.com/en/fee/stocks/stocks-us Note that US stocks 180-day commission-free promotion will be deactivated if the above campaign is effective. For Terms & Conditions please refer to：https://support.futusg.com/topic365/?lang=en-us [FUTU SG]


US Stocks and ETFs

Type	Fees	Charged by
Commission	$0*	FUTU SG
Platform Fees	$0 for the first year, $0.99 / Order thereafter*	FUTU SG
SEC Fees (sells only)	$0.0000051 * Transaction amount, min $0.01 / Trade	SEC
Settlement Fees	$0.003 / Share	US Settlement Agency etc.
Trading Activity Fees (TAF, sells only)	$0.00013 / Share, min $0.01 / Trade, max $6.49 / Trade	FINRA

Applicable to eligible clients of FUTU SG on US stock trading only, please click here for T&Cs.
Other Fees

Type	Fees	Charged by
ADR Custodian Fees	$0.01~$0.05 / Share	DTC
L2 NYSE ArcaBook Fees	Free after account opening

Notes:


As of 1 April 2022, on top of the existing fees, the goods and services tax (GST) will be levied on relevant pass-through fees, including but not limited to stamp duty, exchange fees, and trading fees, in accordance with the Inland Revenue Authority of Singapore's (IRAS) removal of the GST administrative concession, whereupon all relevant domestic and foreign fees to Singapore Tax Residents will be applicable.

I am quite new in trading, if I were to invest 20k into ETF (example, S&P 500), what will be the overall admin fee ?

any diff if I were to DCA $500 weekly or biweekly ?

 

[dappermen]

erm, if it is a stock/etf , b it u rsp/dca or u 1-go, every transaction u must pay ：
- commission fees (some broker house charging it foc)
- platform fees (some dont have this, some char)
- exchanges fees etc that depends on your sgx/nasdaq etc, Lse….. (all have to pay b it whichever broker u r using- exchanges handling fee may has a min charge )

of cos economically 1-go is alwys the most economical options compared to dca….
Pls do your sums.



if your plans r to:
- save & invest or
-not to one-go ride onto the mkt(unless u knew it is the low-low: no1 has a crystal ball), the negligible cost is nothing then
Dca

 

[ekardo]

erm, if it is a stock/etf , b it u rsp/dca or u 1-go, every transaction u must pay ：
- commission fees (some broker house charging it foc)
- platform fees (some dont have this, some char)
- exchanges fees etc that depends on your sgx/nasdaq etc, Lse….. (all have to pay b it whichever broker u r using- exchanges handling fee may has a min charge )

of cos economically 1-go is alwys the most economical options compared to dca….
Pls do your sums.



if your plans r to:
- save & invest or
-not to one-go ride onto the mkt(unless u knew it is the low-low: no1 has a crystal ball), the negligible cost is nothing then
Dca

hmm..so the 0 commission have no impact? what was the previous commission fee by the cow ?

 

[dappermen]

what was the previous commission fee by the cow ?

close to tiger's rate .... i didnt bother to compute and chase after moomoo after every of my trading (yes more than 90% of the time i used moo)
Good to look fwd! use the new rate of moomoo


and ? if u wanna the prev rates? ask their CS or ref to my previous sharing
but why r we discussing about moo in Syfe trade ?

https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...-free-money-free-1-aapl-share.6463061/page-36u can PM if u have qns not related to SYFE trade

 

[ekardo]

funny.,..you put the moo moo link here and supposedly recommending it over syfe? that's why I am checking if it's really better...

 

[reddevil0728]

how does pfof affect users?? is it my orders wont get executed because it gets routed to their preferred broker?

layman way of putting the reason why some brokers can offer 0 commission is because instead of routing you to the demand with the best price, they route you to market makers who may sell you a share at a higher price than the best price possible, just so that they can pay the broker a fee for doing this.

maybe in small scale, it is not a biggie, but cumulatively, the effective "cost" of getting a share at a higher price despite the commission being free might just be as much as paying low commission but better fill price.

also if market maker quotes a higher price than the best price, and because ur limit price is lower than what the market maker is quoting, but higher than the best price out there. you might actually end up not filling your order

there is no free meal in this world. broker has to earn from somewhere.

hmm..so the 0 commission have no impact? what was the previous commission fee by the cow ?

see above

funny.,..you put the moo moo link here and supposedly recommending it over syfe? that's why I am checking if it's really better...

think poster is doing that all over the place with an agenda.

 

[dappermen]

funny.,..you put the moo moo link here and supposedly recommending it over syfe? that's why I am checking if it's really better...

Cos there are **** stirrer here keep repeating pfof
And hence if have so many qns
Can ref straight at : the link
& what is wrong w me sharing that i can dump all trades of syfe trades??!
(Dont have to even guess why cos b it pfof or whatsoever , moo has its best)

furthermore i take it offline w u too to prevent u to delve into non-relevant topics , endedup u qn me here?!!!!??? If u hve qn abt my bhavour of posting wrongly, u could conte to qn me offline (since i alrdy pmd u also to help ans your qns on moomoo which shdnt even b asked here), not taking this thread as a courtroom for me to ans non-relevant qns

I even place the link for u to direct the qns
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...-free-money-free-1-aapl-share.6463061/page-36u can PM if u have qns not related to SYFE trade

Putting the link is to justify why not syfe trades anymore-no1 need to click on it if they believe all these are bullshat stated black&white

 

[MoneyHoney]

layman way of putting the reason why some brokers can offer 0 commission is because instead of routing you to the demand with the best price, they route you to market makers who may sell you a share at a higher price than the best price possible, just so that they can pay the broker a fee for doing this.

maybe in small scale, it is not a biggie, but cumulatively, the effective "cost" of getting a share at a higher price despite the commission being free might just be as much as paying low commission but better fill price.

also if market maker quotes a higher price than the best price, and because ur limit price is lower than what the market maker is quoting, but higher than the best price out there. you might actually end up not filling your order

there is no free meal in this world. broker has to earn from somewhere.


see above

think poster is doing that all over the place with an agenda.

agree but then with market moving so damn fast how do u know which broker is pfof or not? not to mention those brokers that don’t pfof probably charge u like 10 usd per trade anyway… so isn’t that considered robbing retail investors as well? (albeit more upfront than brokers who practise pfof)?

 

[MoneyHoney]

Cos there are **** stirrer here keep repeating pfof
And hence if have so many qns
Can ref straight at : the link
& what is wrong w me sharing that i can dump all trades of syfe trades??!
(Dont have to even guess why cos b it pfof or whatsoever , moo has its best)

Putting the link is to justify why not syfe trades anymore-no1 need to click on it if they believe all these are ******** stated black&whire

don’t think it’s considered **** stirring also… he’s got a point about pfof and those who offer fees free trading surely must earn back somewhere

 

[dappermen]

Pfof happend to every broker except his!

this is **** stirring??? If have qns abt pfof dont even have to tag me, go ask straight w their customer service

not everyone is asking abt pfof:
We wanna discuss abt what other things can syfe trade does
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/syfe-trade.6672146/page-8#post-140957175

So long one is comfy w the co./app go for it, i shared several youtubers who used them and find their rates reasonable since Jan

Jjust like many never know the secrets /indepth of our sg reserves (no1 will be a stoopiak to announce to the whole world how the reserves function!) that doesnt mean we couldnt discuss or debate ......Life still hve to carry on!

A shat-stirrer is a pc of shiit that insisted that sharer is misleading everyone

If a pfof is a cheating technique, go sue the co. , Go take it up w Mas, instead of stirring shiit here as a paper warrior!!!!! A leopard never changes its spots!

 

[reddevil0728]

agree but then with market moving so damn fast how do u know which broker is pfof or not? not to mention those brokers that don’t pfof probably charge u like 10 usd per trade anyway… so isn’t that considered robbing retail investors as well? (albeit more upfront than brokers who practise pfof)?

Can google to find out which broker is PFOF.

typically if a broker provides 0 commission trade it is PFOF, if not I ask you how they survive?

wouldn’t you be concern that they shut down because they can’t survive cause they don’t earn any money?

well interactive brokers don’t charge usd 10… hence your concern is not really an issue. Also, you must also understand, what you don’t see doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

It must feel good paying 0 for commission, but you might in fact be more than you should just that you don’t see it. Unless you want to live in denial?

Note that it is a SEC requirement that all orders be executed at or inside the NBBO (the national best bid / offer). The best bid is the highest bid displayed among all the exchanges and the best offer is the lowest offer displayed among all the exchanges in the U.S.

so there’s a reason why PFOF is controversial.

 

[reddevil0728]

Pfof happend to every broker except his!

this is **** stirring??? If have qns abt pfof dont even have to tag me, go ask straight w their customer service

not everyone is asking abt pfof:
We wanna discuss abt what other things can syfe trade does
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/syfe-trade.6672146/page-8#post-140957175



A shat-stirrer is a pc of shiit that insisted that sharer is misleading everyone

If a pfof is a cheating technique, go sue the co. , Go take it up w Mas, instead of stirring shiit here as a paper warrior!!!!! A leopard never changes its spots!

Caveat emptor again.

my purpose is to EDUCATE people why is it possible for brokers to provide commission free trade.

If there’s no issue with PFOF, what’s there to hide? Not sure why this poster is is agitated when people brings up the topic of PFOF.

If there is really such thing as free meal in the world where there is no disadvantage to 0 commission brokers, then have you thought about how such broker make money? Or do you wish to live in denial?

they are for profit organisation, not a charity, if they don’t make money how would they survive?

if they can’t survive, as much as you are enjoying 0 commission trades, wouldn’t you be concern what will happen to your holdings?

i think this is something legitimate to consider about. And I’m not suggesting no to 0 commission broker. I’m suggesting, so long as you are aware of the advantages and disadvantages of each, and make a conscious decision why you wish to go for either, carry on.

If you say I have an agenda, my only agenda is to educate people by presenting the information pertaining to each.

my agenda is not pushing for a particular broker in threads unrelated to them, while also trashing some other brokers which somehow one has a thing against (especially to do with interface - which if you think about it is a personal preference thing)

Chill.

 

[ekardo]

forum to me is to share what you know, learn what you dunno, find out more to confirm the new information, but it should never be a channel for personnal attack or for self benefit..

it's a pity how current forum have evolved over the past few years..

 

[silverbomb]

forum to me is to share what you know, learn what you dunno, find out more to confirm the new information, but it should never be a channel for personnal attack or for self benefit..

it's a pity how current forum have evolved over the past few years..

just need to keep an open frame of mind, and not get overly defensive or overly one-sided in your frame of sharing and it'll be alright. forums are a platform for sharing still in general most are alright but you'll notice whos who and their wrting style once you're observant or stick around long enough