Thank you all !!

[DevilPlate]

Thats why just keep almost fully invested at all times!

My condos & gold YES! Since 20yrs+ ago
Only add add and hodl

 

[dereth]

I'm still undecided what my portfolio allocation is going to be when I do retire. The last severe drawdown I experienced was in April and although it was painful, I didn't feel as emotional as the previous one in 2022/2023 probably because it was much shorter. Moreover I'm still working so things could be alot more emotionally if I'm not drawing a pay check

Haiz… don’t even bring up the April thing.

Then again, somehow it did not feel as brutal as 2020. COVID year hit hard.

I remember my shock and disbelief at S$200k evaporating into thin air.

That was half my portfolio... I felt completely crushed...

 

[highsulphur]

Haiz… don’t even bring up the April thing.

Then again, somehow it did not feel as brutal as 2020. COVID year hit hard.

I remember my shock and disbelief at S$200k evaporating into thin air.

That was half my portfolio... I felt completely crushed...

Think you missed a zero

 

[BBCWatcher]

Haiz… don’t even bring up the April thing.
Then again, somehow it did not feel as brutal as 2020. COVID year hit hard.
I remember my shock and disbelief at S$200k evaporating into thin air.
That was half my portfolio... I felt completely crushed...

Historically the COVID crash was extremely brief — the shortest bear market in at least 150 years. (Was it a "teddy bear market"?)

However, I'm old enough to have invested every month through the so-called "Lost Decade," which was actually a lot longer than a decade. The dot-com bubble burst after U.S. stock markets peaked on March 10, 2000. It took until May, 2013, for U.S. stock markets to return to their 2000 peak — about 13 years 2 months. That's in nominal terms and excluding net dividends. U.S. stock markets almost made a full nominal recovery in 2008, but then the Global Financial Crisis happened which knocked the S&P 500 Index down ~54% (peak to trough). The 54% crash was the second worst in the past 150 years. (The worst of course started in 1929.) Lower priced stock index funds are great when you're a buyer. Fortunately I was, every month.

The third worst (-52%) began in early 1973, but that wasn't my era.

Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. Nevertheless, if something has happened in the past, it probably could happen again.

 

[dereth]

Historically the COVID crash was extremely brief — the shortest bear market in at least 150 years. (Was it a "teddy bear market"?)

However, I'm old enough to have invested every month through the so-called "Lost Decade," which was actually a lot longer than a decade. The dot-com bubble burst after U.S. stock markets peaked on March 10, 2000. It took until May, 2013, for U.S. stock markets to return to their 2000 peak — about 13 years 2 months. That's in nominal terms and excluding net dividends. U.S. stock markets almost made a full nominal recovery in 2008, but then the Global Financial Crisis happened which knocked the S&P 500 Index down ~54% (peak to trough). The 54% crash was the second worst in the past 150 years. (The worst of course started in 1929.) Lower priced stock index funds are great when you're a buyer. Fortunately I was, every month.

The third worst (-52%) began in early 1973, but that wasn't my era.

Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. Nevertheless, if something has happened in the past, it probably could happen again.

Was the 1997 Asian Financial Crisis as devastating as they say? I’ve only caught bits and pieces over the years.

2008 was a year that nearly rewrote my story.

I was among the last few hired at Avago before the downturn hit. Almost everyone who joined after me was let go, and even long-time staff weren’t spared from the mass retrenchments.

Honestly, if I’d been axed back then, I probably wouldn’t be here today with too much time on my hands, rambling away in online forums.

 

[dereth]

Think you missed a zero

I did not.

My portfolio was close to S$500k in 2020 before losing more than S$200k - Almost half.

 

[DevilPlate]

Haiz… don’t even bring up the April thing.

Then again, somehow it did not feel as brutal as 2020. COVID year hit hard.

I remember my shock and disbelief at S$200k evaporating into thin air.

That was half my portfolio... I felt completely crushed...

The Real crash/pain was between the prolonged gruesome period from 1997 AFC—-2000 dotcom——2003 Sars——2008 GFC

Covid js a short fluke (vaccine saves the world), short and fast recovery.

I been thru 97 till GFC (10years gruesome period)
Altho there is a short rally between 2005-2007

 

[DevilPlate]

Was the 1997 Asian Financial Crisis as devastating as they say? I’ve only caught bits and pieces over the years.

2008 was a year that nearly rewrote my story.

I was among the last few hired at Avago before the downturn hit. Almost everyone who joined after me was let go, and even long-time staff weren’t spared from the mass retrenchments.

Honestly, if I’d been axed back then, I probably wouldn’t be here today with too much time on my hands, rambling away in online forums.

Actually our SG job market wasnt so bad in 2008-2010.
It was Real bad post AFC and dotcom. Wages was soooo depressed for quite a while.

 

[DevilPlate]

Historically the COVID crash was extremely brief — the shortest bear market in at least 150 years. (Was it a "teddy bear market"?)

However, I'm old enough to have invested every month through the so-called "Lost Decade," which was actually a lot longer than a decade. The dot-com bubble burst after U.S. stock markets peaked on March 10, 2000. It took until May, 2013, for U.S. stock markets to return to their 2000 peak — about 13 years 2 months. That's in nominal terms and excluding net dividends. U.S. stock markets almost made a full nominal recovery in 2008, but then the Global Financial Crisis happened which knocked the S&P 500 Index down ~54% (peak to trough). The 54% crash was the second worst in the past 150 years. (The worst of course started in 1929.) Lower priced stock index funds are great when you're a buyer. Fortunately I was, every month.

The third worst (-52%) began in early 1973, but that wasn't my era.

Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. Nevertheless, if something has happened in the past, it probably could happen again.

lower priced index funds were great if you didn’t get retrenched and/or suffer huge pay cut during that period

Furthermore most Sporeans unaware about global index funds(Etf).
Mostly invest in SGX/UT/properties/endowments (UT was charging like 3% buy and 2% sell fees)

Low costs etfs only gets popular post GFC era in SG

 

[NeneNene]

Great perspectives there.. I had only been in the markets during COVID but the above perspective is what we should be ready for..Anxiety and pain in markets are for real. Hope the vice versa is true for all of you as well.. All the anxiety we had to tahan during those downturns also mean we should now feel good with the market swell Else what's the point of this all !!!

 

[dereth]

Actually our SG job market wasnt so bad in 2008-2010.
It was Real bad post AFC and dotcom. Wages was soooo depressed for quite a while.

I entered the workforce in 2003 after NS. Was the market still affected then?

I originally started with a part-time job teaching Photoshop to secondary students after school. I was preparing material to teach Macromedia Flash during the school holidays before SARS killed my gig. All extracurricular activities were halted by MOE.

Took me a few more months to finally secure a full-time job as a PC technician, but the pay was only $1400. I felt it was low, but I did not have a choice. It was do or continue to have my wife settle the bill for our dates.

She already paid for our wedding rings.

I remember there were talks about graduates starting at $2.1 - $2.3k. I felt very envious of them.

 

[DevilPlate]

I entered the workforce in 2003 after NS. Was the market still affected then?

I originally started with a part-time job teaching Photoshop to secondary students after school. I was preparing material to teach Macromedia Flash during the school holidays before SARS killed my gig. All extracurricular activities were halted by MOE.

Took me a few more months to finally secure a full-time job as a PC technician, but the pay was only $1400. I felt it was low, but I did not have a choice. It was do or continue to have my wife settle the bill for our dates.

She already paid for our wedding rings.

I remember there were talks about graduates starting at $2.1 - $2.3k. I felt very envious of them.

Iirc that period fresh grad NUS was around 2k
And yeah local grads were in greater demand….things starts to pick up from 2005.

Condo prices/rental was still pretty much depressed till late 2005 and then short crash again in 08/09

 

[yslvlys]

I entered the workforce in 2003 after NS. Was the market still affected then?

I originally started with a part-time job teaching Photoshop to secondary students after school. I was preparing material to teach Macromedia Flash during the school holidays before SARS killed my gig. All extracurricular activities were halted by MOE.

Took me a few more months to finally secure a full-time job as a PC technician, but the pay was only $1400. I felt it was low, but I did not have a choice. It was do or continue to have my wife settle the bill for our dates.

She already paid for our wedding rings.

I remember there were talks about graduates starting at $2.1 - $2.3k. I felt very envious of them.

Your wife is a keeper

 

[Moowoow]

Congratulations! My journey is also quite similar. Although I knew stock markets and has burnt my fingers before, it was not until I stumbled upon Shiny things thread sometime in 2017 and I started global index investing. Even after that, I pulled out my money many times thinking markets are overvalued but finally after COVID I decided I have to just stick to an allocation. And this year I managed to retire early with a networth of 1.8M SGD and now I am doing SWR to fund my expenses.

What is swr

 

[highsulphur]

What is swr

Safe withdrawal rate

Not to be confused with safe withdrawal method

 

[BBCWatcher]

Was the 1997 Asian Financial Crisis as devastating as they say? I’ve only caught bits and pieces over the years.

It has "Asian" in the name because it was regional. On the investment side, assuming a global stock index-oriented investment posture, nothing much happened. (U.S. stocks, for example, powered right through those years since it was the dot-com bull market.) Obviously there were significant job losses regionally, and people too exposed to real estate got whacked. In Singapore for example home prices fell about 45% peak to trough, on average. The government made a tough decision to cut compulsory CPF contributions, and that obviously, predictably reduced CPF savings.

Honestly, if I’d been axed back then, I probably wouldn’t be here today with too much time on my hands, rambling away in online forums.

Yup. There's usually not much you can do to change the year when you enter the workforce. It could be a bad year or a good year. But, either way, in those early years it's hugely important to "gain some altitude." Basically, don't be spendthrift, and build up an emergency reserve fund.

There's at least one YouTuber who invites mostly 20-something spendthrifts onto his channel to hurl expletives at them. I don't think he's really helping them. However, unfortunately his "financial porn" videos make a serious point: too many of us have no idea what's a genuine necessity versus a want. There's so much s**t you don't need, honestly.

Actually our SG job market wasnt so bad in 2008-2010.
It was Real bad post AFC and dotcom. Wages was soooo depressed for quite a while.

I think the government deserves some amount of credit for learning from the AFC to handle subsequent downturns better. I'd like to see some hard data to back up my supposition, but my hunch is that (for example) the foreign worker ranks take bigger hits now when there's a downturn. Which is not to say the next crisis will be like the last one, or that what worked in the past will work as well again.

lower priced index funds were great if you didn’t get retrenched and/or suffer huge pay cut during that period

Yes, absolutely.

In some cases you might be able to make career decisions that significantly reduce the odds of job loss. For example, two of my grandparents happened to work for the post office, both progressing to fairly senior roles. Those were very stable jobs provided you were competent and reliable. Working hours could be tough especially early in a career. Also, see above about that emergency reserve fund and being thrifty.

Furthermore most Sporeans unaware about global index funds(Etf).
Mostly invest in SGX/UT/properties/endowments (UT was charging like 3% buy and 2% sell fees)
Low costs etfs only gets popular post GFC era in SG

We all really owe a lot to the late John Bogle at Vanguard who pioneered low cost index fund investing for middle class American savers in 1976. But didn't Vanguard open in Singapore by 2003? (Or was it even earlier?)

 

[havetheveryfun]

This. The emo part is very real! Those who been through that knows. Not everyone is courageous enough to hold it through esp when you keep seeing it falls and falls. Those who went through and make it is indeed applaudable. It really builds up your mindset and set your emotions to a higher level.

Haiz… don’t even bring up the April thing.

Then again, somehow it did not feel as brutal as 2020. COVID year hit hard.

I remember my shock and disbelief at S$200k evaporating into thin air.

That was half my portfolio... I felt completely crushed...

is not just courageous to hold it even when your portfolio down 50k-200k or more.. but to continue buying some more and even using leverage.. takes a lot of conviction and emotional management to do that

 

[Jirachi]

Congratulations! An achievement is an achievement! Enjoy it!