The university graduate today is worse off than the ITE graduate of the past !

[SkyNinja]

In 1987, can buy 4rm flat for $30k. A bowl of noodles back then is around $1.50-$2.
Now noodles $4-5. 4rm flat cost how much?
How much due to increased material and labour cost for constructing flats? How much of the current cost go to land?

Flats in the past were priced to recover cost nia. Desmond Lee ownself said de.

“From 1968 to 1987, in the early years of HDB, we sold flats to Singaporeans and the flat price was fixed to recover costs. So, this most resembles PSP’s Affordable Housing Scheme (AHS),” he said.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/sin...are-worse-today-housing-affordability-4984621

Our eyes speak for itself. So many construction company bosses living landed property and some are too rich until started a 2nd unofficial family at Thailand/Vietnam. These companies building houses for Govt and for commercial entities. You sure they living in poverty or swimming with money?

 

[yesman2978]

This is the power of compounding and inflation. 3% inflation over 25 years means price will more than double (since u mentioned decades).

The reason u r facing difficulty is likely that your income did not keep pace with inflation unlike other ppl, or you did not plan your finances adequately (e.g. invest to ensure ur saving return keep pace with inflation).

Salary does not rise infinitely you know.
An ordinary worker maybe can get promotion until middle management, and that's more or less it. Not many can continue promoting until they become CEO or other top management posts.

Most people will hit a plateau/ceiling many years before retirement age. And from there, if salary never drop, is count their blessings liao. Got 2-3% annual increment, is very lucky liao.

Going by your 3% increment over 25 years.

Lets look at housing. Avg price of 4rm resale in 2000s is 255k.

255k * 1.03^25 = $534k.

2025 price is $636k

Clearly inflation, particularly for housing, is higher than 3%.

Spare a thought for people whose salary increments are below that.

Sauces below:

Price of 4rm in 2000s
4-room: Avg size - 968 sq ft; Avg price - $180,000 (New sale); $255,000 (Resale)

https://sg.finance.yahoo.com/news/hdb-home-prices-then-now-130000490.html

As of 1st January 2025, the average resale price of a Housing Development Board (HDB) 4-room flat was at 636,259 Singapore dollars. The resale price of such flats had increased by about 200,000 Singapore dollars since 2017.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1499703/singapore-average-resale-price-of-hdb-flats-by-type/

 

[Eliwood]

Salary does not rise infinitely you know.
An ordinary worker maybe can get promotion until middle management, and that's more or less it. Not many can continue promoting until they become CEO or other top management posts.

Most people will hit a plateau/ceiling many years before retirement age. And from there, if salary never drop, is count their blessings liao. Got 2-3% annual increment, is very lucky liao.

Going by your 3% increment over 25 years.

Lets look at housing. Avg price of 4rm resale in 2000s is 255k.

255k * 1.03^25 = $534k.

2025 price is $636k

Clearly inflation, particularly for housing, is higher than 3%.

Spare a thought for people whose salary increments are below that.

Sauces below:

Price of 4rm in 2000s
4-room: Avg size - 968 sq ft; Avg price - $180,000 (New sale); $255,000 (Resale)

https://sg.finance.yahoo.com/news/hdb-home-prices-then-now-130000490.html

As of 1st January 2025, the average resale price of a Housing Development Board (HDB) 4-room flat was at 636,259 Singapore dollars. The resale price of such flats had increased by about 200,000 Singapore dollars since 2017.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1499703/singapore-average-resale-price-of-hdb-flats-by-type/

U using resale data because BTO doesnt fit ur narrative?

I have helped u supplement.

New flat:
180k * 1.03^25 = 376,880.

There are several flats in Yishun and Woodlands in the Feb 2025 BTO below 377k.

https://www.hdb.gov.sg/about-us/new...-Flats-in-February-2025-BTO-and-SBF-Exercises

I am not unsympathetic to ppl who might have fallen behind. But the victim mindset is getting old and is unproductive. Complaining abt inflation is not going to change anything because it is a global phenomenon.

Also, i did not just mention salary growth, i also said poor financial planning. I recognise income is likely to plateau, which is why it is imperative that ppl grow their savings to ensure they do not fall behind.

 

[dontwastetime]

There is such a thing as HDB price index. Please lah it doesn’t take much effort to get a relevant data source. No need to rely on grandfather stories to justify that now housing not affordable.

Also CPI includes imputed rental instead of market prices of housing. Since if you already owned a house you are not using your salary to keep buying a new house at market price. I see how you try to twist facts again and hide info. Just like LMW.

See your mind is so twisted that u support this method of calculation for SPOREANS WHO MAINLY OWN THEIR HOUSES and not rent like most countries

I'm not saying CPI is incorrect but it does not reflect accurately the story for singaporeans

Just like they dare not include cost of cars too

U can get all sorts of Rosey figures all U want

But the man on the street is still suffering

People like U should get a taste of being retrenched after 40,50 and suddenly all your qualifications is sheet.. and have to drive grab

Then let's see if your figures really match

 

[dontwastetime]

U using resale data because BTO doesnt fit ur narrative?

I have helped u supplement.

New flat:
180k * 1.03^25 = 376,880.

There are several flats in Yishun and Woodlands in the Feb 2025 BTO below 377k.

https://www.hdb.gov.sg/about-us/new...-Flats-in-February-2025-BTO-and-SBF-Exercises

I am not unsympathetic to ppl who might have fallen behind. But the victim mindset is getting old and is unproductive. Complaining abt inflation is not going to change anything because it is a global phenomenon.

Also, i did not just mention salary growth, i also said poor financial planning. I recognise income is likely to plateau, which is why it is imperative that ppl grow their savings to ensure they do not fall behind.

@yesman2978 as usual PAP IBS don't understand BTO need to ballot, they assume everyone has the luxury to meet someone at 21, automatically get BTO queue and get hitched by 25.

And they assume all sporeans earning less than 14k combined should all live in 2nd floor boonlay to show that HDB is Cheep

 

[louisoh]

ownself voted for it... mai kpkb hor.

Before GE, kpkb kpkb
Vote MIW coz afraid of changes or oppo cmi.
after GE, kpkb kpkb.

no change made, u will continue to get the same results

 

[yesman2978]

U using resale data because BTO doesnt fit ur narrative?

I have helped u supplement.

New flat:
180k * 1.03^25 = 376,880.

There are several flats in Yishun and Woodlands in the Feb 2025 BTO below 377k.

https://www.hdb.gov.sg/about-us/new...-Flats-in-February-2025-BTO-and-SBF-Exercises

I am not unsympathetic to ppl who might have fallen behind. But the victim mindset is getting old and is unproductive. Complaining abt inflation is not going to change anything because it is a global phenomenon.

Also, i did not just mention salary growth, i also said poor financial planning. I recognise income is likely to plateau, which is why it is imperative that ppl grow their savings to ensure they do not fall behind.

Are you using the cheapest BTO instead of median BTO price (across all BTOs) to fit your narrative?

 

[Eliwood]

Are you using the cheapest BTO instead of median BTO price (across all BTOs) to fit your narrative?

I think LW has done that alrdy right? He mentioned household income has gone up in tandem with BTO price.

 

[parchiao]

I think LW has done that alrdy right? He mentioned household income has gone up in tandem with BTO price.

This news issit?

https://www.theonlinecitizen.com/20...s-affordable-as-those-in-the-1980s-and-1990s/

 

[Eliwood]

This news issit?

https://www.theonlinecitizen.com/20...s-affordable-as-those-in-the-1980s-and-1990s/

Yes can feel free to qn him if dun agree with wat he said.

 

[parchiao]

Yes can feel free to qn him if dun agree with wat he said.

Give it a rest lah.

HDB prices have gone up across the board relative to personal median income, by a lot.

Even when compared vs household income, cannot dispute that last time only needed one income vs two now.

And let’s not forget when median income is used, there will always be this segment that falls behind. If this segment or any other segment complains, who are you to say their complaints are not valid. Some here like to cite examples of people going for holidays, eating in fanciful restaurants etc. for all you know, it is the ones above the median income who are doing it.

 

[Ethan_]

Give it a rest lah.

HDB prices have gone up across the board relative to personal median income, by a lot.

Even when compared vs household income, cannot dispute that last time only needed one income vs two now.

And let’s not forget when median income is used, there will always be this segment that falls behind. If this segment or any other segment complains, who are you to say their complaints are not valid. Some here like to cite examples of people going for holidays, eating in fanciful restaurants etc. for all you know, it is the ones above the median income who are doing it.

Think vaguely remembered got saw someone posted (think raised by opposition) the salary vs cost of housing and such of graduate and ite then in the past compare to now. Now that gap is even wider that before. Much more wider. Several fold perhaps.

Many are often misled into looking at the generic, that there is improvement from the past. But in reality if really compare dollar to dollar, they are worse off than before. That's the way local often play it (and the IB also). Do a strawman of sort to divert attention from the real issue and problem.

 

[Eliwood]

Give it a rest lah.

HDB prices have gone up across the board relative to personal median income, by a lot.

Even when compared vs household income, cannot dispute that last time only needed one income vs two now.

And let’s not forget when median income is used, there will always be this segment that falls behind. If this segment or any other segment complains, who are you to say their complaints are not valid. Some here like to cite examples of people going for holidays, eating in fanciful restaurants etc. for all you know, it is the ones above the median income who are doing it.

I just find it funny ppl like to use feeling and anecdotes to rationalise. What's even funnier is that most of the time it is not even their own feeling or anecdote.

But i agree BTO price has gone up relative to an individual's median income.

The single income part is also very interesting. If single income can settle house, kids and retirement, why are there so many complaints on sandwich class? Why was there the need for pioneer and mederka packages? Is the single income being able to tank everything narrative representative of general population back then?

 

[parchiao]

I just find it funny ppl like to use feeling and anecdotes to rationalise. What's even funnier is that most of the time it is not even their own feeling or anecdote.

But i agree BTO price has gone up relative to an individual's median income.

The single income part is also very interesting. If single income can settle house, kids and retirement, why are there so many complaints on sandwich class? Why was there the need for pioneer and mederka packages? Is the single income being able to tank everything narrative representative of general population back then?

In believe these are the generations that did not have much in CPF. One could use CPF to buy a flat from 1971.

Remember what I posted right at the beginning of this thread? Most people were earning between $200 and $399 while the next most common bracket was earning below $200.

I know that most of my older relatives did jobs that had zero CPF ie do whatever job to get by.

Also, saving for retirement was secondary to buying the home and raising the kids.

PAP knows that the current economic conditions is harder for n the older folks of the generation, so have to top up their CPF and bank account with something.

 

[parchiao]

Think vaguely remembered got saw someone posted (think raised by opposition) the salary vs cost of housing and such of graduate and ite then in the past compare to now. Now that gap is even wider that before. Much more wider. Several fold perhaps.

Many are often misled into looking at the generic, that there is improvement from the past. But in reality if really compare dollar to dollar, they are worse off than before. That's the way local often play it (and the IB also). Do a strawman of sort to divert attention from the real issue and problem.

I think that was me who posted the numbers.

 

[dontwastetime]

I just find it funny ppl like to use feeling and anecdotes to rationalise. What's even funnier is that most of the time it is not even their own feeling or anecdote.

But i agree BTO price has gone up relative to an individual's median income.

The single income part is also very interesting. If single income can settle house, kids and retirement, why are there so many complaints on sandwich class? Why was there the need for pioneer and mederka packages? Is the single income being able to tank everything narrative representative of general population back then?

Ure all theory and rosey figures. U should know the term "creative accounting"

Let me ask u, who wakes up in the morning, backside itchy decides to vote against pap for nothing?

40% of the people are either smart enough to see reality or are facing the reality of life

Let me tell u, even my millionaire relatives are fed up with PAP. Let's not talk about the middle class or the poor

 

[Travis_Touchdown]

easy way to argue juz like tfr... everywhere also the same... other countries property prices also high... mybfd... @Shion

 

[RedEyesFan]

Why no one mention post-war economy?
The ITE grads then are also riding on the post-war economy like Lee Kuan Yew did.

And now is no longer a post-war economy. And PAP is still stuck in the post-war economy mindset.

 

[dontwastetime]

Why no one mention post-war economy?
The ITE grads then are also riding on the post-war economy like Lee Kuan Yew did.

And now is no longer a post-war economy. And PAP is still stuck in the post-war economy mindset.

How about last time lky was against foreign import so that it was employee market and Sporeans were rich

 

[Eliwood]

Ure all theory and rosey figures. U should know the term "creative accounting"

Let me ask u, who wakes up in the morning, backside itchy decides to vote against pap for nothing?

40% of the people are either smart enough to see reality or are facing the reality of life

Let me tell u, even my millionaire relatives are fed up with PAP. Let's not talk about the middle class or the poor

Which is totally fine.

I think everyone shd vote according to their self interest.

It is just funny that ppl think their "reality" is the only reality. Even funnier when their "reality" is by feelings.