The university graduate today is worse off than the ITE graduate of the past !

[dontwastetime]

Which is totally fine.

I think everyone shd vote according to their self interest.

It is just funny that ppl think their "reality" is the only reality. Even funnier when their "reality" is by feelings.

40% of sporeans are more than 1 million people. This is reality.

 

[Eliwood]

In believe these are the generations that did not have much in CPF. One could use CPF to buy a flat from 1971.

Remember what I posted right at the beginning of this thread? Most people were earning between $200 and $399 while the next most common bracket was earning below $200.

I know that most of my older relatives did jobs that had zero CPF ie do whatever job to get by.

Also, saving for retirement was secondary to buying the home and raising the kids.

PAP knows that the current economic conditions is harder for n the older folks of the generation, so have to top up their CPF and bank account with something.

There are always 3 main liabilities, i.e. housing, kids and retirement.

It doesnt seem very fair to compare single income in the past vs now while omitting retirement planning which is almost as big a component as housing.

 

[parchiao]

There are always 3 main liabilities, i.e. housing, kids and retirement.

It doesnt seem very fair to compare single income in the past vs now while omitting retirement planning which is almost as big a component as housing.

It's not logical to bring in retirement planning.

Which of the 3 comes first ie Housing, kids or retirement?

How many people have the luxury of thinking about retirement when there is barely enough to pay for housing without the fear that one cannot pay for it eventually when one does not have job security?

If we ask people in the streets which of the 3 comes first, retirement will not be the first, because one needs to live first.

 

[Eliwood]

It's not logical to bring in retirement planning.

Which of the 3 comes first ie Housing, kids or retirement?

How many people have the luxury of thinking about retirement when there is barely enough to pay for housing without the fear that one cannot pay for it eventually when one does not have job security?

If we ask people in the streets which of the 3 comes first, retirement will not be the first, because one needs to live first.

In this case, i would think that median income of 5,324 can be adequate to support housing plus 1 kid assuming no savings (since no retirement factored in) and 1990s lifestyle of no travelling.

BTO will cost around 2k (around 1k from cpf. Remaining take home pay of 4,259 seems adequate considering the simple lifestyle in 90s?

My impression of the unhappiness over housing price has always been that it impacts ppl's ability to retire. So it is surprising that retirement should not be factored in.

 

[parchiao]

In this case, i would think that median income of 5,324 can be adequate to support housing plus 1 kid assuming no savings (since no retirement factored in) and 1990s lifestyle of no travelling.

BTO will cost around 2k (around 1k from cpf. Remaining take home pay of 4,259 seems adequate considering the simple lifestyle in 90s?

My impression of the unhappiness over housing price has always been that it impacts ppl's ability to retire. So it is surprising that retirement should not be factored in.

This is just one small part of a scenario to plan.

Most people will have to work first to generate enough money to convince their partner to marry them ie. have enough as downpayment for a house, wedding and renovation and some savings for a rainy day.

Let us suppose that all this is already taken care of, and we reach your example i.e. $5324 gross salary i.e. with 37% already contributed to CPF OA, SA and MA, that should only leave $3886 as take home. Of the 37% that get into CPF, $1224.67 goes into OA, and the rest goes into SA and MA.

Before I reply further, did I get my numbers correct?

 

[Eliwood]

This is just one small part of a scenario to plan.

Most people will have to work first to generate enough money to convince their partner to marry them ie. have enough as downpayment for a house, wedding and renovation and some savings for a rainy day.

Let us suppose that all this is already taken care of, and we reach your example i.e. $5324 gross salary i.e. with 37% already contributed to CPF OA, SA and MA, that should only leave $3886 as take home. Of the 37% that get into CPF, $1224.67 goes into OA, and the rest goes into SA and MA.

Before I reply further, did I get my numbers correct?

Yes i forgot the 5324 includes employer cpf lol.

I agree with 3886 take home. The OA im happy to take ur numbers as gd.

 

[parchiao]

Yes i forgot the 5324 includes employer cpf lol.

I agree with 3886 take home. The OA im happy to take ur numbers as gd.

Suppose that it is a couple, and a kid is on the way. For simplicity, we assume that both people i.e. the couple earn the same. $3886 take home x 2. HDB is taken care of by $1K from CPF x 2. How long this loan is dependent on other factors we did other than discuss. Mostly expenses will also depend on how they spend and save. But I think it is fair to say it isn't a lot, but it is not too little either as $3886 can pay for the bills, give some to parents if have to, save some, spend some and pay for 1 kid. It sure does not feel like there is much to look forward to.

 

[wwenze]

in the end I just want to ask. "你投票给谁？政府是自己选的。 靠北什么‘’


Read HWZ Forum Rules!

This.

LKY fought to change government

We need another one

 

[wwenze]

 

[Eliwood]

Suppose that it is a couple, and a kid is on the way. For simplicity, we assume that both people i.e. the couple earn the same. $3886 take home x 2. HDB is taken care of by $1K from CPF x 2. How long this loan is dependent on other factors we did other than discuss. Mostly expenses will also depend on how they spend and save. But I think it is fair to say it isn't a lot, but it is not too little either as $3886 can pay for the bills, give some to parents if have to, save some, spend some and pay for 1 kid. It sure does not feel like there is much to look forward to.

Yes i agree there isnt much to look forward to.

I think im not old enuff, but what was there to look forward to in the 90s?

For me I recall air plane tix were super expensive, restaurants were only for special occasions. The main treats were going parks, beaches, chalets etc.

 

[dontwastetime]

Yes i agree there isnt much to look forward to.

I think im not old enuff, but what was there to look forward to in the 90s?

For me I recall air plane tix were super expensive, restaurants were only for special occasions. The main treats were going parks, beaches, chalets etc.

Talk more to your parents or grand parents . U don't even know how fantastic it was. My parents o level just working a 9 to 5 job could own a condo.

Now even PHD struggle to buy condo.. They could as late as 2010..but not in 2025 for sure

 

[Eliwood]

Talk more to your parents or grand parents . U don't even know how fantastic it was. My parents o level just working a 9 to 5 job could own a condo.

Now even PHD struggle to buy condo.. They could as late as 2010..but not in 2025 for sure

Lol i know for sure my parents or grandparents nv owned a condo.

Both my parents worked, and they shared with me money was tight until my elder sibling graduated from university. In fact they were living paycheck to paycheck lol (altho i didnt know at that time).

 

[parchiao]

Yes i agree there isnt much to look forward to.

I think im not old enuff, but what was there to look forward to in the 90s?

For me I recall air plane tix were super expensive, restaurants were only for special occasions. The main treats were going parks, beaches, chalets etc.

Yes, something along those lines. But I will try to be more specific.

I worked in Shenton Way in the 90s. Back then, there were countless means of joy during lunch time. There were many small eateries around there, The old Singapore Polytechnic, in UIC building, Shenton House, on the over head bridge, International Plaza, Afro-Asia building which also had an MPH, lanes between Shenton Way, Robinson Rd and Cecil St, Amoy St hawker centre, Maxwell food centre, Telok Ayer Transit Food Centre in addition to Lau Pa Sat.

All the food was cheap and good. Some of these places still exist, but most of the food stalls no longer exist. I am sure close to 100% of people who worked there like me will say they miss those days for these things.

Lunch was truly a highlight of the day. If you worked near your GF, you could also go pak tor and eat at these same places during dinner time.

On weekends, it was mainly air conditioned places like Wheelock Place, Lido Cinema, Wisma Atria, Takashimaya, Centrepoint, Plaza Singapura, or we could walk down to Raffles City via Bras Basah or Stamford Rd and take a detour to MPH, Peninsula Plaza and Peninsula Shopping Centre, Capitol cinema etc, And if we still wanted more, it was Marina Square.

Suntec City came at the later part of the 90s, so did the internet. I tend to think of the 90s as two parts, because change was happening with me ie. it was in that decade that I started working and around me i.e. internet , Asian Financial Crisis 97.

The real change that took place and as a result, the FT floodgates opened was due primarily to the 97 AFC.

 

[chaiscool]

It's not logical to bring in retirement planning.

Which of the 3 comes first ie Housing, kids or retirement?

How many people have the luxury of thinking about retirement when there is barely enough to pay for housing without the fear that one cannot pay for it eventually when one does not have job security?

If we ask people in the streets which of the 3 comes first, retirement will not be the first, because one needs to live first.

There are always 3 main liabilities, i.e. housing, kids and retirement.

It doesnt seem very fair to compare single income in the past vs now while omitting retirement planning which is almost as big a component as housing.

Imo medical / dental should be included too

 

[parchiao]

Imo medical / dental should be included too

Maybe it is something to consider nowadays.

When I was young, I would only visit the school dentist and would not incur any medical bills other than what a Panadol could not help with.

The people before me, there was no dental health to consider and if someone falls sick, there was no medical help or money to see a doctor. That was how a relative of mine passed on.

 

[Eliwood]

Yes, something along those lines. But I will try to be more specific.

I worked in Shenton Way in the 90s. Back then, there were countless means of joy during lunch time. There were many small eateries around there, The old Singapore Polytechnic, in UIC building, Shenton House, on the over head bridge, International Plaza, Afro-Asia building which also had an MPH, lanes between Shenton Way, Robinson Rd and Cecil St, Amoy St hawker centre, Maxwell food centre, Telok Ayer Transit Food Centre in addition to Lau Pa Sat.

All the food was cheap and good. Some of these places still exist, but most of the food stalls no longer exist. I am sure close to 100% of people who worked there like me will say they miss those days for these things.

Lunch was truly a highlight of the day. If you worked near your GF, you could also go pak tor and eat at these same places during dinner time.

On weekends, it was mainly air conditioned places like Wheelock Place, Lido Cinema, Wisma Atria, Takashimaya, Centrepoint, Plaza Singapura, or we could walk down to Raffles City via Bras Basah or Stamford Rd and take a detour to MPH, Peninsula Plaza and Peninsula Shopping Centre, Capitol cinema etc, And if we still wanted more, it was Marina Square.

Suntec City came at the later part of the 90s, so did the internet. I tend to think of the 90s as two parts, because change was happening with me ie. it was in that decade that I started working and around me i.e. internet , Asian Financial Crisis 97.

The real change that took place and as a result, the FT floodgates opened was due primarily to the 97 AFC.

Arent things the same now, just that the places have changed? Perhaps you are overly romanticising the past?

Maybe it is something to consider nowadays.

When I was young, I would only visit the school dentist and would not incur any medical bills other than what a Panadol could not help with.

The people before me, there was no dental health to consider and if someone falls sick, there was no medical help or money to see a doctor. That was how a relative of mine passed on.

This is an example where cost has increased due to individual choices? To seek treatment instead of just ignoring it? Yes it adds on to cost but there is incremental benefit so i thot it is fair.

 

[bluerhino]

Those who lived through, will know.

I don't need to refer to food index, to remember that the price of my kopi o kosong has risen from $0.50 to $1.50 at the coffeeshop that I have frequented for decades.

I don't need to refer to historical price record, to notice shrinkflation, that 1L cartons of milk, juices, have shrunk to odd sizes like 946ml, 950ml.

Don't even need to go so far back. Just recall the past few years can liao, compare pre covid prices with prices today.

I don't need to refer to singstats data to tell me that I could get a dish and drink for $5 in a coffeeshop precovid, and now I would be lucky if there's dishes below $5.

I don't need data to tell me that my $5 lunch had evolved over the past 10 years. From:
2meat 1 veg caipng + kopi c peng
become
2 meat 1 veg caipng + kopi peng
Then
2 meat 1 veg caipng + kopi o peng
To
2 meat 1 veg caipng + kopi o kosong peng
To
1 meat 2 veg caipng + kopi o kosong

And this is just for food.

Don't need singstats to tell me that inflation has worsen. Just look at bank balance can liao. Moi is BBFA no change in lifestyle (in fact going in reverse, living more and more simpler lifestyle), if rise in income outpace or matched inflation, should see savings growing at higher or constant rate. But each year I find my savings rising more slowly, saving less and less. Why ah?

There's a reason why throngs of sinkies are spending their 3.3:1 in JB every weekend.

Not sure why we are still discussing then

 

[bluerhino]

See your mind is so twisted that u support this method of calculation for SPOREANS WHO MAINLY OWN THEIR HOUSES and not rent like most countries

I'm not saying CPI is incorrect but it does not reflect accurately the story for singaporeans

Just like they dare not include cost of cars too

U can get all sorts of Rosey figures all U want

But the man on the street is still suffering

People like U should get a taste of being retrenched after 40,50 and suddenly all your qualifications is sheet.. and have to drive grab

Then let's see if your figures really match

You already got retrenched that’s why so angsty? Somehow I only find angry Singaporeans in edmw. I wonder where these people are in real life,

 

[parchiao]

Arent things the same now, just that the places have changed? Perhaps you are overly romanticising the past?

There is no way to describe it as the same. The food was significantly better, cheaper, more variety in terms of choice of food and even places to eat. If I use that period as a base, today’s choice of cheap and good food for the same area will not score more than 30%.

This is an example where cost has increased due to individual choices? To seek treatment instead of just ignoring it? Yes it adds on to cost but there is incremental benefit so i thot it is fair.

I cannot imagine not visiting the dentist at least twice a year if not 4 times. On the other hand, I still self medicate if i am not feeling well. If I do visit the doctor, I will use the work insurance to pay for it.

I forgot to mention, back then travelling was still not as widespread as it is now. When I was young, I would only visit the parks and beaches like you suggested. By the 90s, more people were already travelling to nearby places in SEA and HK. I was already travelling to Europe and US by 2000 onwards.

 

[Eliwood]

There is no way to describe it as the same. The food was significantly better, cheaper, more variety in terms of choice of food and even places to eat. If I use that period as a base, today’s choice of cheap and good food for the same area will not score more than 30%.



I cannot imagine not visiting the dentist at least twice a year if not 4 times. On the other hand, I still self medicate if i am not feeling well. If I do visit the doctor, I will use the work insurance to pay for it.

I forgot to mention, back then travelling was still not as widespread as it is now. When I was young, I would only visit the parks and beaches like you suggested. By the 90s, more people were already travelling to nearby places in SEA and HK. I was already travelling to Europe and US by 2000 onwards.

I think u and i had very different experiences hence our differing views.

Personally i am happy with the additional choices of food now and life is more comfortable.

I think budget airline started in SG in mid 2000s.