Understanding NS liability for PRs

[ethan89]

Dear mods/admins,

Can you kindly assess the content of this thread whether it's appropriate to discuss the legality of SG immigration/citizenship laws here?

Is it allowed in HWZ forums to advise/educate how foreigners should bypass the legal system?

Please lock/delete this thread wherever necessary.

 

[ultiminute]

It is so obvious that this is a troll thread, who would ask such a thing in EDMW and expect anything other than flaming?

 

[Crooni]

you FT? why are you providing advice which help him to break the law?

like all that saga about ica, defense scientist, pianist, pr running; mindef is slowly tightening over the years because ppl make noise. last time ppl can immigrate out even during ns, now think ll have to complete 2 years before one can renounce.

If foreigners don't exploit loopholes and create issues, then nothing would have changed, but they did. Everyone's still treating singapore like used tissue paper. If he want to go then let them go, because our government/mindef/ica still allows it. But make sure everyone knows too, so that there isn't a next time.

Anyway info like this is easy to find on pinoysg and expatforum.

 

[johnlzr]

Thanks. May I please know if it is explicitly stated anywhere that the cutoff age is 13?

To answer your question. My wife and I are already PRs. I personally have been a PR for 11 years - lived in SG for 15 years. This decision is for our baby.

You and your wife have enjoyed 11+11=22 years of PR benefits + 4 years of benefits in Singapore as a foreigner and you cannot even let your son who is still a baby serve 2 years fo the country? You are what is f**king wrong with the PR system. Please take my advice and just stop commenting.

If you really a PR, don't be surprised if somebody here CSI you and then send email to ICA. Not trying to blackmail you but just telling you to stop stirring already.

 

[jericho75]

seriously, u forced PR to serve in military service got use or not? if there is a war between sinkapore and his homeland then who will he help?

 

[spinning_quirK]

Pap encourages and loves these freeloading foreigners

That's why I don't understand why people are scolding foreigners. They are just taking advantage for their own survival. What other modern country opens legs so widely?

If you're so angry, just vote wisely.

Sent from Flatland using GAGT

 

[Paull33lampard]

seriously, u forced PR to serve in military service got use or not? if there is a war between sinkapore and his homeland then who will he help?

That's exactly what is happening in Singapore. They welcome everyone hoping they stay on to become citizen. What is the % of this happening? Most just takes up PR and competes with citizens for resale HDBs... If a PR cannot see the reason to become a citizen after 5 years, this country is not for them. Their PRs should be revoked and they should work on EP or seek pastures elsewhere...

 

[jericho75]

That's exactly what is happening in Singapore. They welcome everyone hoping they stay on to become citizen. What is the % of this happening? Most just takes up PR and competes with citizens for resale HDBs... If a PR cannot see the reason to become a citizen after 5 years, this country is not for them. Their PRs should be revoked and they should work on EP or seek pastures elsewhere...

how many % became sinkaporean? even so, alot of countries allow their ex citizens to go back even if they gave up their citizenship.

 

[nyvrem]

Please take PR and milk the system gao gao. Then once your kid turns 18, give up PR and go overseas for Uni, have him find a job in an amdk country, apply PR there then bring u over. It's the best way to give your kid a bright future without the NS liabilities.

 

[nyvrem]

how many % became sinkaporean? even so, alot of countries allow their ex citizens to go back even if they gave up their citizenship.

My wife die die also dunwan take sg citizenship

:X

 

[firebrand83]

In troll thread

 

[persocom01]

imo people are being too harsh on TS. If you were her, will you want your son to serve NS if he could avoid it?

I wouldn't. I'll let my daughters be PR, sons I'll renounce their PR so I can enjoy the benefits of the SG.

it is natural for people to seek what is best for themselves. You may not like it, but TS is just one of many. I know many malaysian PRs do the same thing for their children.

if you have to be angry, be angry with the SG system for allowing such a thing to be feasible. People will naturally exploit loopholes if they can benefit from them.

 

[Crooni]

seriously, u forced PR to serve in military service got use or not? if there is a war between sinkapore and his homeland then who will he help?

long term residency is the 1st step to citizenship. it's expected that one actually wants to live in that country and be part of it to take residency. in sg's case, to expect ns from new citizens or pr if they truly want to be singaporeans isn't that far-fetched as you would from someone who was born and raised here.

pr and citizenship applications are also screened, to make the people coming in have some ties to the country(business/family/personal) and are of a level of quality in terms of education, capability, health and character.

problem is i have no idea what ica is doing or screening. there're giving out pr and citizenship invites, they're giving pr to people with false backgrounds, those who are just here for work, even those who can't speak english. nobody can blame them for dodging ns when it's not their intent to settle in sg, but ica is giving out easy pr, which is not what pr is for.

yet there is no distinction between economic refugees and ppl with real commitment and talent. which creates that scenario of that china dude turned singaporean, who served ns and got jailed for awol in order to attend uni, when hordes of pr are running away with no penalties. to any logical person, there are more restrictions and penalties being a citizen rather than a freeloader.

it's like a restaurant with a buffet line. you have regular customers, and you also give free passes to attract customers. so those with free passes just eat, no restrictions, but you charge your regular customers for wastage, service charge, wet towel charge, tea charge, 2 hour time limit, 1 serving of crab only; who the hell would want to be a regular.

 

[hwmook]

imo people are being too harsh on TS. If you were her, will you want your son to serve NS if he could avoid it?

I wouldn't. I'll let my daughters be PR, sons I'll renounce their PR so I can enjoy the benefits of the SG.

it is natural for people to seek what is best for themselves. You may not like it, but TS is just one of many. I know many malaysian PRs do the same thing for their children.

if you have to be angry, be angry with the SG system for allowing such a thing to be feasible. People will naturally exploit loopholes if they can benefit from them.

That's BS. My ex boss, current boss and many of those I know have worked here for >20 years and have their sons served NS, no such things as running away when the duties call. Those arseholes like you who want to take advantage of this country should just **** off ASAP.

 

[Audio]

I understand your viewpoint. I have two comments.

One: This question is not for me, it is for my baby. Right now he is not of an age at which he can understand that I am accepting PR for him on his behalf. Therefore I want to fully understand what liabilities I AM PLACING ON HIM.

If the SG government were to tell me, for instance, that my accepting PR would mean I have to serve NS then as an adult I can make that decision. But for my baby it would be HIS TIME AND FREEDOMS that I have forsaken. So I must ask the question. To not ask is stupid!

Two: To live in a country and pay taxes sounds fair and right to me. I have no problems doing this. However NS is one step further. It is to defend that country with your life - presumably against some foreign power. Now there are two issues here:

a. A citizen would NATURALLY WANT to defend his or her country against foreign invaders as said country would probably comprise his family, his properties, his livelihood. NS for citizens makes sense because it is a collective approach to the individual natural want. But would a PR have that same natural want? A PR may have much of his family still in his natural land. What incentive does he have to defend, with his life, a foreign land?

b. If foreign invaders were from the same country as a PR then would a PR do his best to defend his country from the foreign invader?

If today Singapore is being attacked, you, your wife and your precious baby will be protected by over 3 million native Singaporeans' sons. Judging from your post, you would probably want to get out and the same 3 million Singaporeans' sons will ensure you a free and safe passage to your home country.

How do you think this come about? It is from all our sons that underwent NS. So, it is quite sickening to think someone would want to totally enjoy everything this country has but want to evade your son's responsibility of keeping the peace here in Singapore. No, paying taxes alone do not fulfill your obligation of wanting to work here. You think your son is the only precious creature and the 3 millions other Singaporeans lives are not? Is his time and freedom more precious than the 3 million Singaporeans who had served NS to protect your family?

It is just like going to the restaurant for dinner and want to escape from the restaurant without paying after your meal.....asking the other diners surrounding your table how to avoid paying the bill. How stupid is that?

But don't worry. Our Singapore government have preference for foreigners like you and you will be OK. By the time your son reach the NS age, they will probably have volunteer NS, lasting about 2 weeks, officially consolidated to rid you of your worries.


(Audio)

 

[_eMuu_]

if renounce PR, i dont think can even get S pass to work in sg.

can only enjoy benefits for that 16 years. even if parents are citizens.

can only come sg as tourist.

Sent from eMuu's mobile phone using GAGT

 

[spidercyj]

Thanks. May I please know if it is explicitly stated anywhere that the cutoff age is 13?

To answer your question. My wife and I are already PRs. I personally have been a PR for 11 years - lived in SG for 15 years. This decision is for our baby.

TS dunno if you are trolling but reading through your replies i think your main question is


"At what age would my child need to fulfill his PR responsibilities? And what are the consequences if my child skip out on his responsibilities"

Your wife and you would naturally become PR because you guys are enjoying the good part of PR and not the added liabilities (NS).

But now you worry because unlike you, your child needs to pay his dues for being a PR which you did not.

You already admit that NS is a liabilities and something that you won't want your son to go through.

So drop your act by saying you want to know what are the liabilities that you are placing on him because all you want to know is how long can your child enjoy the perks of being a PR before you transfer him out of SG to run away from all this liabilities. This is all for you devise a plan to use the loophole.

 

[Rainowar]

I understand your viewpoint. I have two comments.

One: This question is not for me, it is for my baby. Right now he is not of an age at which he can understand that I am accepting PR for him on his behalf. Therefore I want to fully understand what liabilities I AM PLACING ON HIM.

If the SG government were to tell me, for instance, that my accepting PR would mean I have to serve NS then as an adult I can make that decision. But for my baby it would be HIS TIME AND FREEDOMS that I have forsaken. So I must ask the question. To not ask is stupid!

Two: To live in a country and pay taxes sounds fair and right to me. I have no problems doing this. However NS is one step further. It is to defend that country with your life - presumably against some foreign power. Now there are two issues here:

a. A citizen would NATURALLY WANT to defend his or her country against foreign invaders as said country would probably comprise his family, his properties, his livelihood. NS for citizens makes sense because it is a collective approach to the individual natural want. But would a PR have that same natural want? A PR may have much of his family still in his natural land. What incentive does he have to defend, with his life, a foreign land?

b. If foreign invaders were from the same country as a PR then would a PR do his best to defend his country from the foreign invader?

ur replies are remarkable.........
U are saying that if china invade the chinese will give in?

Or if isis / malaysia were to invade the malay bros in sg will switch faction?

If it matters so much to you go give birth in australia then

Sent from from the den in Oxley road using GAGT

 

[persocom01]

That's BS. My ex boss, current boss and many of those I know have worked here for >20 years and have their sons served NS, no such things as running away when the duties call. Those arseholes like you who want to take advantage of this country should just **** off ASAP.

may not be true for your boss, but my ex-boss was a malaysian raising kids in singapore who need not serve NS. He just pays higher education fee.

 

[Rainowar]

Ts are u from india becuase my spidey senses tells me that the indians under india's caste sysytem are bloody self conceited selfish b@stard and i mean every single one of them. So tell us where do you come from be proud about it

Sent from from the den in Oxley road using GAGT