Unit Trusts

[sohguanh]

how much capital u put in uob unit trust? what % yield have u obtained? pls share, thanks.

If you know my style I never share. If you think I BS can just ignore. I am just replying there are always two sides to a story. Your experience in one does not mean others will experience the same. A more diplomatic to post is to add info e.g from my own experience I lose monies and not blanket rule I am sure he will regret ... like ppl confirm lose monies

 

[sohguanh]

Past performance is not a guarantee of future results

Sounds familiar?

He was using past results in his earlier post so I tag along to counter back lor. Now waiting for him to sumpah future we will not face US lost decade.

 

[sglandscape]

I say before unless the USD investment returns is so much better. Take note US lost decade from 2000 to 2010 is about 10 years. No one can predict future no guaranteed eat. You claimed I am conceptually incorrect is based on past results. If want to do that please explain US lost decade will not happen in future? You dare to sumpah?

I'm not even referring to returns, but how returns are generated and is currency agnostic. Given Singapore companies do not make most of their returns in SGD anymore, you'll be in a similar position. They just convert it back to SGD. If for whatever reasons the FX moves against them, their share price and dividends in SGD would also be hit.

 

[sglandscape]

Past performance is not a guarantee of future results

Sounds familiar?

It never is but the discussion of currency risk and market risk are 2 different things. Mixing it up does not help people make more informed decisions, and it'll just be an either or one (SGD or USD).

 

[JustDoLor]

United Income Fund
50:50 mid-risk, balanced portfolio
As at 30-Sep-24,
1-year gain 15.46%
Annualised 3-year gain -0.5%

United Growth Fund
80:20, higher risk, aggressive portfolio
1-year gain 21.17%
Annualised 3-year gain -1.39%

If buy both funds equally mean 65:35, then is moderate aggressive portfolio. However, to maintain this ratio, you need to re-balance regularly (quarterly, half-yearly or yearly for example). Maybe your RM will do it for you free-of-charge?

These 2 funds only available to private clients. Pay 3% one-time sales charges.

% Gains showed above and below excluded initial one-time sales charge.

—————————————
Now I look at 2 funds which I am familiar with, and are available to the public:

Schroeder’s Mulit-Asset, balanced fund
As at 1-Oct-24,
1-year gain 21%
Annualised 3-year gain 1.8%

LionGlobal All Seasons Fund (Growth) - 70:30
As at Oct-24,
1-year gain 21.14%
Annualised 3-year gain 2.34%

Now if I buy these 2 funds from eg. FSM or Poems, no initial one-time sales charges.
(Edit: FSM charge platform fees for cash/SRS)
———————————-

If now compare the 1-year and 3-year gain of the respective UOB funds vs. the 2 funds I quoted, any difference?

Next, if you included the 3% sale charge into the 2 UOB funds and compare again, any difference?

(In case I made any mistake let me know lah)

 

[JustDoLor]

Well, you looking for, quoted you “less risky and more liquid….., obstacles to withdraw the principal is not too large”?

You see, the 2 UOB funds 3-year annualised gain is negative. So assume you had invested in them 3 years ago, and you wanted to withdraw last year or 2-year back, you might be sitting with a loss of maybe 10% or greater, was that an obstacles large enough for you?
Or you would wait out till today to withdraw?
Then maybe someone in this situation might swear that they would never touch UT ever again…

Then you might also think, if I have invested a year ago, wow, I would be sitting on a >15% paper gain.

So, what time horizon you are talking about? How much loss can you stomach?

 

[reddevil0728]

To OP another point to consider. Here readers like to say invest ETF. Most need change currency to USD etc. This approach need to factor in when change back to SGD. Another forum a guy sell vwra 100k USD as need do down payment for SG ppty. He was shocked the loss incurred if change back but he got no choice. He readily admit he underlook this criteria many years ago. He still earn but not as much as he think last regret. Btw he use IBKR and they offer him one free withdrawal per month so he also not happy as I think he wants to change a few times to get better average exchange rate to SGD then faster transfer back to SGD bank account bad move.

If it sounds alien to you just keep it simple any investment that needs you do DIY change currency to and fro abandon it. You can never know what is a good time to change back and incur loss. Try stick to investment that you invest with SGD and sell get back SGD much easier to compute later. Endowus is good alternative.

if you find it difficult to track of if people don't realise need to account for FX diff, then don't blame how it works, just blame oneself for not wanting to put in the effort to track and not know how things work la.

btw why you got banned again recently?

Hi all, really appreciate a lot for your input.

Jut for extra context, I have yet to take up the Unit Trusts with UOB as I have yet to hit the Maximum $150,000.

why need to hit max 150k? what thing?

 

[limster]

In the past I have recommended to my less financially savvy relatives and friends the Lion Global All Seasons Growth Fund, which is a 70/30 balanced fund also holding S&P500. Performance has been pretty decent and I'm happy for those that took my advice and because it is fairly easy to buy, that helps them be consistent in putting money into it.

Those that get advice from their kopi buddies to buy REITs for income, good luck to them... I tried my best to advise them

 

[wutawa]

In the past I have recommended to my less financially savvy relatives and friends the Lion Global All Seasons Growth Fund, which is a 70/30 balanced fund also holding S&P500. Performance has been pretty decent and I'm happy for those that took my advice and because it is fairly easy to buy, that helps them be consistent in putting money into it.

Those that get advice from their kopi buddies to buy REITs for income, good luck to them... I tried my best to advise them

Using which platform/broker?

 

[JustDoLor]

Oh, I forgot that FSM got platform charge if use cash/SRS, so I never use FSM for cash investment.

 

[krikering]

Well, you looking for, quoted you “less risky and more liquid….., obstacles to withdraw the principal is not too large”?

You see, the 2 UOB funds 3-year annualised gain is negative. So assume you had invested in them 3 years ago, and you wanted to withdraw last year or 2-year back, you might be sitting with a loss of maybe 10% or greater, was that an obstacles large enough for you?
Or you would wait out till today to withdraw?
Then maybe someone in this situation might swear that they would never touch UT ever again…

Then you might also think, if I have invested a year ago, wow, I would be sitting on a >15% paper gain.

So, what time horizon you are talking about? How much loss can you stomach?

I spoke to the RM, the negative 3 years annualised gain was due to Covid. So if consider 2 years ago till now, is positive returns.

Tbh, I have done my research and am aware that buying Unit Trusts from banks will be more expensive than if you ownself invest in ETFs but

trade-off is I no need to monitor on my end and they will update me every 4 months or so. The Fund Manager will manage the Unit Trust Portfolio on my behalf.

In addition, they are able to switch my capital amount between the 2 Fund (United Income Fund and United Growth Fund depending on the interest rates) but will require my signature/approval every time they do so.

My time horizon is around 1-2 years plus I always hope to have the option of withdrawing it if in case that require funds urgently.

The RM mentioned that my capital amount will only be locked for 1 year at minimum, thus I prefer it over ILPs and Annuity/Endowment plans which typically require around 8 years minimum to break-even.

Typically I am more of a FDs/T-Bills, etc kind of safe investors but recently am starting to perhaps consider more riskier kinds e.g Unit Trusts or ETFs, given that I have accumulated some spare cash e.g 10k-20k for it.

if you find it difficult to track of if people don't realise need to account for FX diff, then don't blame how it works, just blame oneself for not wanting to put in the effort to track and not know how things work la.

btw why you got banned again recently?

why need to hit max 150k? what thing?

UOB One Account maximum balance is 150k is what I meant, now I only just started to hit the most upper tier (125k to 150k). So, earliest I start buying Unit Trusts, etc. will be around 3 months from now.

 

[Mephist0pheLes]

I spoke to the RM, the negative 3 years annualised gain was due to Covid. So if consider 2 years ago till now, is positive returns.

Tbh, I have done my research and am aware that buying Unit Trusts from banks will be more expensive than if you ownself invest in ETFs but

trade-off is I no need to monitor on my end and they will update me every 4 months or so. The Fund Manager will manage the Unit Trust Portfolio on my behalf.

In addition, they are able to switch my capital amount between the 2 Fund (United Income Fund and United Growth Fund depending on the interest rates) but will require my signature/approval every time they do so.

My time horizon is around 1-2 years plus I always hope to have the option of withdrawing it if in case that require funds urgently.

The RM mentioned that my capital amount will only be locked for 1 year at minimum, thus I prefer it over ILPs and Annuity/Endowment plans which typically require around 8 years minimum to break-even.

Typically I am more of a FDs/T-Bills, etc kind of safe investors but recently am starting to perhaps consider more riskier kinds e.g Unit Trusts or ETFs, given that I have accumulated some spare cash e.g 10k-20k for it.


UOB One Account maximum balance is 150k is what I meant, now I only just started to hit the most upper tier (125k to 150k). So, earliest I start buying Unit Trusts, etc. will be around 3 months from now.

if ur time horizon is 1-2 year, u sldnt even be looking at an equity-heavy portfolio. if 2022 repeats itself, are u okay with a -15% to -20% drop within a year?

 

[sohguanh]

I'm not even referring to returns, but how returns are generated and is currency agnostic. Given Singapore companies do not make most of their returns in SGD anymore, you'll be in a similar position. They just convert it back to SGD. If for whatever reasons the FX moves against them, their share price and dividends in SGD would also be hit.

I don't see so deep your logic. My logic is simple I put X SGD years later I get back now much SGD. Now can you sumpah in future we will not see US lost decade? If cannot then what I point out is logically and also conceptually correct as it affects our final realized profits in SGD.

 

[sohguanh]

It never is but the discussion of currency risk and market risk are 2 different things. Mixing it up does not help people make more informed decisions, and it'll just be an either or one (SGD or USD).

Why you like to think so technically? To layman it is simple X dollars SGD years later get back how much SGD. This is the workflow. The in between what market risk currency risk is besides the point. We look at the final sum get back based on initial put in. It is so crystal clear logic that you all need to split further blah blah blah. KISS is my principle in work and life if possible.

 

[CrashWire]

They are the United Income Fund (50% Bonds 50% Equity) thus less risk but lesser returns and also, the United Growth Fund (100% Equity). They have a one-time fee of 3%, that means I put in @$20,000 as the amount then I will be charged $600 fee as they will be manning the portfolio on my behalf and updating me every few month on the progress.

If you buy any of the 4 Fund Portfolios on UOB TMRW app, it's literally the same product but with a 0.8% sales charge instead.

https://www.uob.com.sg/personal/digital-banking/wealth-on-tmrw.page

Could you ask the "Personal Wealth Executive" what value add they can provide over the app? I'm curious as well.

 

[sohguanh]

If you buy any of the 4 Fund Portfolios on UOB TMRW app, it's literally the same product but with a 0.8% sales charge instead.

https://www.uob.com.sg/personal/digital-banking/wealth-on-tmrw.page

Could you ask the "Personal Wealth Executive" what value add they can provide over the app? I'm curious as well.

As of today the safest one United MMF aka Play safe portfolio no 0.8% sales charge and the expense ratio is 0.08%. I mention this particular fund in other posts already. Even Endowus not carrying this class U fund. It carry the class A I think where expense ratio is much higher.

 

[limster]

Using which platform/broker?

I usually recommend poems because they can go down to a physical branch in their neighbourhood to open an account. on the other hand, if they want to use whatever they are familiar with, thats fine, its more important to start investing in low cost funds than to let your cash in bank decay in value.

Oh, I forgot that FSM got platform charge if use cash/SRS, so I never use FSM for cash investment.

FSMOne is more worth it when you reach Diamond Tier at $500k AUM, since platform fee is waived at that tier. If you buy VWRA / CSPX /ETFs using FSMOne, there is no platform fee and it also counts toward the diamond tier AUM.

 

[sohguanh]

Oh, I forgot that FSM got platform charge if use cash/SRS, so I never use FSM for cash investment.

Use it for cpf investment no platform fees even beat Endowus

 

[krikering]

As of today the safest one United MMF aka Play safe portfolio no 0.8% sales charge and the expense ratio is 0.08%. I mention this particular fund in other posts already. Even Endowus not carrying this class U fund. It carry the class A I think where expense ratio is much higher.

https://www.uobam.com.sg/our-funds/highlights/united-money-market-fund/index.page

https://endowus.com/investment-funds-list/uobam-united-sgd-money-market-fund-SG9999017297

Apologies just to double confirm, you referring to the United Money Market Fund Index?

The past 1 year annualised returns from I saw in the Endowus website is 3.57%, which is around same rate as typical FDs/T-Bills.

United Income Fund returns are higher over past 1 year if am not mistaken.

If you buy any of the 4 Fund Portfolios on UOB TMRW app, it's literally the same product but with a 0.8% sales charge instead.

https://www.uob.com.sg/personal/digital-banking/wealth-on-tmrw.page

Could you ask the "Personal Wealth Executive" what value add they can provide over the app? I'm curious as well.

I am told previously that if buy the fund via UOB RM, that they will be liaising closely with the fund manager on my behalf and update me accordingly as in managing on my behalf and provide updates.

If so, then perhaps it might be more worthwhile for me to buy the United Income Fund or United Growth Fund via UOB Tmrw App if there is an option to do so.

Will confirm with UOB if able to do so.

Thanks everyone for Inputs thus far.

 

[limster]

I am told previously that if buy the fund via UOB RM, that they will be liaising closely with the fund manager on my behalf and update me accordingly as in managing on my behalf and provide updates.

wow UOB has billions of $ of AUM, but they are willing to do this for individual retail customers, I'm very impressed by their service. like that I am actually hoping that you will buy the fund via UOB RM so that you can share UOB's level of service with us.

Make sure your RM shows you his/her e-mails / messages with the fund manager to prove that he/she is liaising closely with the fund manager on your behalf, and post in this forum pls.