Unit Trusts

[Mephist0pheLes]

Appreciate for info, for now I am leaning towards perhaps buying a high performing Lion Global Infinity Global Stock with Endowys
or buying the United Income Fund/United Growth Fund from UOB Tmrw App (not via RM) if possible.

Will also look around to see if any high-perrforming Funds that Endowus offer.



My Singlife Representative was recommending alot on 2 ILPs -
Fundsmith Equity Fund and the Allianz Income Fund Returns.

But after checking on it, I realise that they will take quite some time to break even (if contribute SGD 500 monthly for the first 2 years) and the initial capital (e.g SGD 500 x 2 years × 12 months = SGD 12, 000) will have to be locked in for 5 years at minimum thus decided not to proceed.



Actually mid last year, as had came across a Tokio Marine Gold Pro prosuct thus talked to a representative.

There was a representative from Tokio Marine representatives whom I talked to regarding Tokio Marine Gold Pro, she was very candid and shared that ILPs is actually quite risky and take very long to break even. She is a very honest FA tbh.

Forget ILP, dun even need to think about them. It's a terrible product. Weber Chuin (ex-CEO of moneyowl) said there's no reason for ILP to exist and they should be banned. This is echoed by Christopher Tan (CEO of providend) in an interview 3 weeks ago where he said there is no place for ILP (in your personal financial planning). If u go to any investment-related forums or telegram chats, where the investment savvy ppl gathers, large majority of the ppl there are strongly against ILP too.

 

[sglandscape]

Forget ILP, dun even need to think about them. It's a terrible product. Weber Chuin (ex-CEO of moneyowl) said there's no reason for ILP to exist and they should be banned. This is echoed by Christopher Tan (CEO of providend) in an interview 3 weeks ago where he said there is no place for ILP (in your personal financial planning). If u go to any investment-related forums or telegram chats, where the investment savvy ppl gathers, large majority of the ppl there are strongly against ILP too.

Should be clearer why ILPs as we know it today is not preferred by most people. High sales charge, bad liquidity (often if you terminate early you get back half of it, unless you cross certain milestone), costly to switch between funds, poor alignment of incentives between the fund manager, the FA and your needs.

 

[krikering]

Yes, I have totally not considered ILPs now. In fact, I have a colleague who was previously a DBS Wealth Planning Manager he mentioned that he regretted buying ILPs.

Thus, now am moving towards Unit Trusts as generally less monitoring required compared to ETFs but tbh ETFs actually is the more popular option.

Just curious, how will you guys weigh the pros and cons between Unit Trusts and ETFs in general (e.g perhaps on a platform like Endowus or FSMOne or POEM or even with a bank, etc.) ?

 

[Mephist0pheLes]

Yes, I have totally not considered ILPs now. In fact, I have a colleague who was previously a DBS Wealth Planning Manager he mentioned that he regretted buying ILPs.

Thus, now am moving towards Unit Trusts as generally less monitoring required compared to ETFs but tbh ETFs actually is the more popular option.

Just curious, how will you guys weigh the pros and cons between Unit Trusts and ETFs in general on a platform like Endowus or FSMOne or POEM, etc. ?

i started with Endowus - the platform is easy to use, good selection of funds with reasonable fees. It also allows SRS and CPF-OA investment.

but now, i have switched away my cash investments to buying ETFs via IBKR to further lower my fees. im still using Endowus for my SRS and CPF-OA investment.

 

[krikering]

i started with Endowus - the platform is easy to use, good selection of funds with reasonable fees. It also allows SRS and CPF-OA investment.

but now, i have switched away my cash investments to buying ETFs via IBKR to further lower my fees. im still using Endowus for my SRS and CPF-OA investment.

Yes, alot of ppl around me using IBKR now too. The fees and charges might be even lower than Endowus.

I see, guess perhaps you are more into ETFs than Unit Trusts now.




How will you compare the 2 different products?

Will you consider putting money inside ETFs more worthwhile than Unit Trusts overall, considering all aspects?

 

[Mephist0pheLes]

Yes, alot of ppl around me using IBKR now too. The fees and charges might be even lower than Endowus.

I see, guess perhaps you are more into ETFs than Unit Trusts now.




How will you compare the 2 different products?

Will you consider putting money inside ETFs more worthwhile than Unit Trusts overall, considering all aspects?

ETFs via ibkr is definitely cheaper than a roughly equivalent fund from Endowus (after accounting platform fees), but the former has steeper learning curve.

 

[krikering]

ETFs via ibkr is definitely cheaper than a roughly equivalent fund from Endowus (after accounting platform fees), but the former has steeper learning curve.

Yes, am aware of so. Thing is ETFs, I am choosing my one and will have to do the monitoring and the switching of funds, etc. based on market trends.

Whereas for Unit Trusts, if e.g via Endowus then an Endowus fund manager will do this instead. Offside is, I have to pay additional platform fees.

I can get anxious easily and would hope for a peace of mind, if possible thus am considering Unit Trusts, etc.

Would prefer a system if e.g I fork out SGD 10k and hand it over to a fund manager of a reputable organisation e.g Endowus/MoneyDex/FSMone/POEM and they will manage the unit trust for me.

Then they just update me every now and then on the progress.

Actually, tbh investing ETFs via IBKR may be more worthwhile due to no platform fees which overall lead to potential higher returns.

Just that, I would prefer to not monitor and do the choosing myself if possible.

 

[reddevil0728]

Yes, am aware of so. Thing is ETFs, I am choosing my one and will have to do the monitoring and the switching of funds, etc. based on market trends.

Whereas for Unit Trusts, if e.g via Endowus then an Endowus fund manager will do this instead. Offside is, I have to pay additional platform fees.

I can get anxious easily and would hope for a peace of mind, if possible thus am considering Unit Trusts, etc.

Would prefer a system if e.g I fork out SGD 10k and hand it over to a fund manager of a reputable organisation e.g Endowus/MoneyDex/FSMone/POEM and they will manage the unit trust for me.

Then they just update me every now and then on the progress.

Actually, tbh investing ETFs via IBKR may be more worthwhile due to no platform fees which overall lead to potential higher returns.

Just that, I would prefer to not monitor and do the choosing myself if possible.

What you choose to invest is important.

You are thinking cause other platforms don’t need monitor to do switching etc.

hence they got advantage.

but have you thought about there are some stuff that don’t need to monitor to switch? Just keep investing kind?

 

[limster]

Actually mid last year, as had came across a Tokio Marine Gold Pro product thus talked to a representative.

Just curious, what are your thoughts on Endowus then?

My colleagues use it and find their platform user-friendly and low platform fees + no one time charge at beginning.

Actually, alot of my colleagues all are investing in stocks/shares or ETFs. Tbh, not sure if just follow suit but just am checking out Unit Trusts as talked to RM yesterday.

Yes, alot of ppl around me using IBKR now too. The fees and charges might be even lower than Endowus.

Its very interesting. your colleagues are using Endowus, or investing in stocks/shares/ETFs, and no doubt if you asked them,they will recommend Endowus or direct investing in ETFs using IBKR.

But you don't believe them and come to anonymous internet forum to ask for opinion on buying unit trusts from RM

And based on your posts, you have been talking with other people/colleagues/agents about investment since last year. If you had bought almost any stock/ETF/unit trust last year, you would have already made pretty good return year to date. Which is why some say 'time in market' is the most important

 

[sohguanh]

My last post before they force me away. Always remember this workflow for investment.
1. Change SGD to USD
2. USD buy
3. USD sell
4. USD change to SGD
The step 4 is your final realized profit if you do step 4. So before you embark on any foreign currency investment fit these 4 steps in your planning. Once you are fine with it all by all means.

ETF scene is changing and morphing into various combination. SCB CIO SC funds just show the way that may appeal to ppl wanting to avoid. Internally let them do the forex and ETF buying you only need to focus on your own SGD buy sell.

 

[reddevil0728]

My last post before they force me away. Always remember this workflow for investment.
1. Change SGD to USD
2. USD buy
3. USD sell
4. USD change to SGD
The step 4 is your final realized profit if you do step 4. So before you embark on any foreign currency investment fit these 4 steps in your planning. Once you are fine with it all by all means.

totally. that is exactly how it should work.

ETF scene is changing and morphing into various combination. SCB CIO SC funds just show the way that may appeal to ppl wanting to avoid. Internally let them do the forex and ETF buying you only need to focus on your own SGD buy sell.

you aren't wrong if you don't want to care about whatever happen in between.

but you not caring about whatever happens in between doesn't mean you can misinterpret how it works.

 

[krikering]

Not that I don't trust them, actually the colleagues I spoke to are around 3 or 4 and I do take heed their words and based my research on it.

Well, their preferred investment styles are different from mine. As mentioned, I have always been investing in the likes of FDs till date.

I would prefer an investment style where perhaps less Monitoring from my side, whereas they invest in stock/shares/ETFs thus monitor themselves.

Its very interesting. your colleagues are using Endowus, or investing in stocks/shares/ETFs, and no doubt if you asked them,they will recommend Endowus or direct investing in ETFs using IBKR.

But you don't believe them and come to anonymous internet forum to ask for opinion on buying unit trusts from RM

And based on your posts, you have been talking with other people/colleagues/agents about investment since last year. If you had bought almost any stock/ETF/unit trust last year, you would have already made pretty good return year to date. Which is why some say 'time in market' is the most important

I did believe them, which was why I did not take up ILPs. In the first place, I was close to taking it up but after a session with the Representative on it the Terms and conditions for the ILP offered-Fundsmith Equity Fund and Allianz Income Fund

(e.g Principal Amount can only withdraw after 5 years and take around 8 years or so to break even if contribute SGD 500 for first 24 months) just didn't sit right with me.

Because for me, after cross-comparing different products. I am down carefully viewing 2 options left, which are Unit Trusts or ETFs.

Unit Trusts crossed my mind when I had the talk with the UOB RM during the session I was upgraded to Wealth Banking, especially when they mentioned that principal amount can be withdraw after 1 year.

Thus, it is a new topic to me as Unit Trusts did not crossed my mind before the above session where they introduced to me the 2 UOB Unit Trusts (United Income Fund and United Growth Fund)

Compared to ILPs, which is universally discouraged I see some saying that Unit Trust is an option worth considering. Some posters here mentioned that they have Unit Trusts too.

Just thought that since this is a sub-forum (Money-Mind) dedicating to Investment, thus decided to perhaps start a discussion on it and people can share their thoughts as well.


Thanks and Regards

 

[reddevil0728]

Not that I don't trust them, actually the colleagues I spoke to are around 3 or 4 and I do take heed their words and based my research on it.

Well, their preferred investment styles are different from mine. As mentioned, I have always been investing in the likes of FDs till date.

I would prefer an investment style where perhaps less Monitoring from my side, whereas they invest in stock/shares/ETFs thus monitor themselves.

i dun understand why do you think that ETFs requires monitoring but UT don't?

I did believe them, which was why I did not take up ILPs. In the first place, I was close to taking it up but after a session with the Representative on it the Terms and conditions for the ILP offered-Fundsmith Equity Fund and Allianz Income Fund

(e.g Principal Amount can only withdraw after 5 years and take around 8 years or so to break even if contribute SGD 500 for first 24 months) just didn't sit right with me.

Because for me, after cross-comparing different products. I am down carefully viewing 2 options left, which are Unit Trusts or ETFs.

Unit Trusts crossed my mind when I had the talk with the UOB RM during the session I was upgraded to Wealth Banking.

Thus, it is a new topic to me as Unit Trusts did not crossed my mind before the above session where they introduced to me the 2 UOB Unit Trusts (United Income Fund and United Growth Fund)

Compared to ILPs, which is universally discouraged I see some saying that Unit Trust is an option worth considering. Some posters here mentioned that they have Unit Trusts too.

Just thought that since this is a sub-forum (Money-Mind) dedicating to Investment, thus decided to perhaps start a discussion on it and people can share their thoughts as well.


Thanks and Regards

btw do you know that the underlying of ILP is unit trust right?

 

[limster]

ETF scene is changing and morphing into various combination. SCB CIO SC funds just show the way that may appeal to ppl wanting to avoid. Internally let them do the forex and ETF buying you only need to focus on your own SGD buy sell.

For my elderly relatives who are not financially savvy, I have recommended them LionGlobal All Seasons Growth which is denominated in S$. I wouldn't ask them to buy US$ ETF using IBKR.

IBKR is not that easy to use. I admit that I have mistakenly pressed "Buy" when I wanted to press "Sell" more than once when using IBKR. Luckily on those occasions market was going up so I was able to sell everything at a profit on the same day.

At the end of the day, nothing wrong with a low cost and reasonably diversified unit trust like LG All Seasons. Your consistency in investing regularly over the long term is the main determinant of returns, and whatever helps you be consistent in investing will lead to success.

These are similar lessons one learns by exercising. If you go on social media, there seems to be 1,001 influenzas promoting their fitness plans. But at the end of the day, fitness is through consistency, not some magical fitness plan. But if you need to pay money for a gym subscription or a personal trainer to be consistent, then go ahead, better than not exercising at all.

 

[JustDoLor]

If you are considering Infinity Global Stock Index Fund using cash/SRS, you have another option which is Dimensional Global Core Equity Fund. The latter, I remembered many years back, only available in Endowus, and probably still true today

Since both funds benchmark against MSCI World Index

https://endowus.com/investment-funds-list/dimensional-global-core-equity-fund-IE00BF20L879

Appreciate for info, for now I am leaning towards perhaps buying a high performing Lion Global Infinity Global Stock with Endowys
or buying the United Income Fund/United Growth Fund from UOB Tmrw App (not via RM) if possible.

 

[krikering]

i dun understand why do you think that ETFs requires monitoring but UT don't?

btw do you know that the underlying of ILP is unit trust right?

Yup am aware, ILPs has quite a few middleman in between thus higher charges.

Apologies, as I am quite new to investing do correct me if I am wrong. I have done some research on my end too.

Not saying that UT don't, but there is a fund manager handling on behalf. Downside, is also higher charges compared to ETFs where you Monitor on your own and choose each individual ETF to buy.

If you are considering Infinity Global Stock Index Fund using cash/SRS, you have another option which is Dimensional Global Core Equity Fund. The latter, I remembered many years back, only available in Endowus, and probably still true today

Since both funds benchmark against MSCI World Index

https://endowus.com/investment-funds-list/dimensional-global-core-equity-fund-IE00BF20L879

Thanks for info. Another fund which I am considering is Amundi Prime USA Fund (also by Endowus).

Just to kindly enquire, if you know any reliable portals where we can check the top performing funds (over fixed time frames e.g 1 year / 2 years / 5 years / 10 years)?

Sincerely Regards

 

[JustDoLor]

TS still new in investment, UT no need monitor one, the fund manager will do the magic.

ETFs need to monitor just like stocks (!?), need ownself select and buy a basket of them? and then monitor and manage yourself . Someone here already question him why, gave him some clue, but don’t tell him exactly why. But I think TS still catch no ball. So, TS may want to do more research on ETF.

But then, TS need to somehow, start somewhere…. And probably learn the loop like most of us here…

Yes, am aware of so. Thing is ETFs, I am choosing my one and will have to do the monitoring and the switching of funds, etc. based on market trends.

Whereas for Unit Trusts, if e.g via Endowus then an Endowus fund manager will do this instead. Offside is, I have to pay additional platform fees.

I can get anxious easily and would hope for a peace of mind, if possible thus am considering Unit Trusts, etc.

Would prefer a system if e.g I fork out SGD 10k and hand it over to a fund manager of a reputable organisation e.g Endowus/MoneyDex/FSMone/POEM and they will manage the unit trust for me.

Then they just update me every now and then on the progress.

Actually, tbh investing ETFs via IBKR may be more worthwhile due to no platform fees which overall lead to potential higher returns.

Just that, I would prefer to not monitor and do the choosing myself if possible.

 

[krikering]

TS still new in investment, UT no need monitor one, the fund manager will do the magic.

ETFs need to monitor just like stocks (!?), need ownself select and buy a basket of them? and then monitor and manage yourself . Someone here already question him why, but don’t tell him why. But I think TS still catch no ball. So, TS may want to do more research on ETF.

But then, TS need to somehow, start somewhere…. And probably learn the loop like most of us here…

Not ruling it out, I am also considering perhaps setting aside few hundreds to perhaps buy a few ETFs. Considering between IBKR/Endowus/FSMone/POEM/Moneydex as well.

 

[reddevil0728]

Yup am aware, ILPs has quite a few middleman in between thus higher charges.

Apologies, as I am quite new to investing do correct me if I am wrong. I have done some research on my end too.

Not saying that UT don't, but there is a fund manager handling on behalf. Downside, is also higher charges compared to ETFs where you Monitor on your own and choose each individual ETF to buy.

Maybe you do a bit more research about the following: "How often do fund managers beat the market benchmark"

Also for additional context when you do your own research...

1. Why are you writing it as "choose each individual ETF to buy", why aren't you also saying "choose each individual UT to buy"?
2. ETF is mostly associated with tracking an index, i.e., the market benchmark i am referring to above.
3. Essentially, Fund Managers are trying to see if the stocks they pick that goes into the UT, can do any better than this ETF they simply tracks (i.e., just passively follow) all the stocks in the index (i.e., market benchmark)/

See the difference?

TS still new in investment, UT no need monitor one, the fund manager will do the magic.

ETFs need to monitor just like stocks (!?), need ownself select and buy a basket of them? and then monitor and manage yourself . Someone here already question him why, gave him some clue, but don’t tell him exactly why. But I think TS still catch no ball. So, TS may want to do more research on ETF.

But then, TS need to somehow, start somewhere…. And probably learn the loop like most of us here…

i think TS have confirmation bias.

Not ruling it out, I am also considering perhaps setting aside few hundreds to perhaps buy a few ETFs. Considering between IBKR/Endowus/FSMone/POEM/Moneydex as well.

those are just platforms.

but the question is why do you want to split like that? what's the objective/outcome you trying to achieve?

 

[wutawa]

TS still new in investment, UT no need monitor one, the fund manager will do the magic.

ETFs need to monitor just like stocks (!?), need ownself select and buy a basket of them? and then monitor and manage yourself . Someone here already question him why, gave him some clue, but don’t tell him exactly why. But I think TS still catch no ball. So, TS may want to do more research on ETF.

But then, TS need to somehow, start somewhere…. And probably learn the loop like most of us here…

I have both ut and etf. I monitor them mthly to see how much I earning from them. Otherwise I 10 years bo chap also nvm. Hehe