Will minimum wage laws work here?

[BBCWatcher]

The statement is made relative to the 80s, and consists of total foreign labour rather than prs alone

Fortunately, these jobs are taken by the foreigners.

A lot has changed since the 1980s. Let's start with the fact that Singapore now has a quarter million Foreign Domestic Workers (FDWs) primarily working in Singaporean households, many caring for elderly Singaporeans. That's a Singaporean middle class (or at least upper middle class) shift in household spending since the 1980s as relative income and wealth have increased in Singapore. It'd be possible to reduce the foreign workforce in Singapore significantly by reducing FDWs to zero. Would anyone like to recommend that the government do that?

I agree with Mike as a generalization. Broadly speaking, Singaporeans rely on foreign workers for two primary objectives: (1) when they want cheaper services, such as construction and domestic help, and (2) when they want higher tax revenues for more and better publicly provided goods and services. Remember, per capita, Singaporean citizens constitute the biggest public burden: they consume the most government services and subsidies and pay the least for them into government coffers. (As it should be; that's not a criticism.) The upper foreign echelon is the opposite: the biggest net, per capita contributors to the public purse. Get rid of them and taxes have to go up a lot, publicly provided goods and services have to be cut a lot, or some of both.

Yes, I'm oversimplifying a bit. One complexity: some male PRs and all male citizens have National Service obligations unless medically waived. That's a non-monetary public contribution, and it's a big, valuable one. If the government had to pay market rates for that labor from the same pool (male citizens and PRs) it'd be a major expenditure and would require significant new tax revenues. Imagine what the government would need to spend to persuade half the current pool to serve voluntarily for 4 years instead of 2. Instead we have a consensus in favor of a "cheap" military organization in labor terms, which broadly aligns with category (1).

 

[ftpofmpo]

A lot has changed since the 1980s. Let's start with the fact that Singapore now has a quarter million Foreign Domestic Workers (FDWs) primarily working in Singaporean households, many caring for elderly Singaporeans. That's a Singaporean middle class (or at least upper middle class) shift in household spending since the 1980s as relative income and wealth have increased in Singapore. It'd be possible to reduce the foreign workforce in Singapore significantly by reducing FDWs to zero. Would anyone like to recommend that the government do that?

I agree with Mike as a generalization. Broadly speaking, Singaporeans rely on foreign workers for two primary objectives: (1) when they want cheaper services, such as construction and domestic help, and (2) when they want higher tax revenues for more and better publicly provided goods and services. Remember, per capita, Singaporean citizens constitute the biggest public burden: they consume the most government services and subsidies and pay the least for them into government coffers. (As it should be; that's not a criticism.) The upper foreign echelon is the opposite: the biggest net, per capita contributors to the public purse. Get rid of them and taxes have to go up a lot, publicly provided goods and services have to be cut a lot, or some of both.

Yes, I'm oversimplifying a bit. One complexity: some male PRs and all male citizens have National Service obligations unless medically waived. That's a non-monetary public contribution, and it's a big, valuable one. If the government had to pay market rates for that labor from the same pool (male citizens and PRs) it'd be a major expenditure and would require significant new tax revenues. Imagine what the government would need to spend to persuade half the current pool to serve voluntarily for 4 years instead of 2. Instead we have a consensus in favor of a "cheap" military organization in labor terms, which broadly aligns with category (1).

The issue of foreign labour is not in itself a good or bad decision, and as you've mentioned it helps to bring down cost of services, especially in areas where there might be no local supply like fdw. But what remains is that it impacts different segments differently, and most likely benefits those at the top more.

A better example is the retail sector, if foreign labour is restricted, many shops and land owners will be affected, but wages for salesperson will rise. Retail is increasingly unlikely to raise the cost of essential services and hence taxes.

supporting the retail staff after opening up the retail sector to foreign labour to support capital owners serves to reduce the unintended impact of such policy decisions for example, should be done, and rightly so

 

[mummy1234]

Why always squeeze the middle class to help the lower class. And not squeeze the upper class? Upper class will not feel a thing since they r so rich but middle class will be hurt.

Because as some says upper class r the people in charge of making up the rules and will not squeeze themselves?

Then when election time comes, don't be surprised by the results then.

 

[Merg91]

Mummy56789:
Spare your own pocket 'idea' ? Lol

The best way to channel your money to the poor is still to raise your % (including mine) for income /properties & 15% GST.
Have more /spend more & pay more.
The 'hdb middle class with Mercedes/BMW) & the poor get proportional GST vouchers & in rebates.

 

[Merg91]

Majority of Sinkies are thankful to PAP.
Many would shudder if Singapore is to run by Chee Soon Juan & Tan Cheng Bock like.
Running a govt needs more than a noisy empty/half empty can.

Look around the region or the world.
Is Trump /Widodo/Mahathir better?
Are small /packed countries like HK better for your poor one?

 

[mummy1234]

Majority of Sinkies are thankful to PAP.
Many would shudder if Singapore is to run by Chee Soon Juan & Tan Cheng Bock like.
Running a govt needs more than a noisy empty/half empty can.

Look around the region or the world.
Is Trump /Widodo/Mahathir better?
Are small /packed countries like HK better for your poor one?

I understand that u don't like me cause I am anti PAP and u r probably paid to destroy whatever I write. But it is a fact that housing and cars are way overpriced in Sg and costs of living r strangling us. We r expected to work till we drop dead in Sg.

But why does it have to be this way? Is this really the best system?

My Pinoy maid tells me 6 mths of working for me and she can pay off her housing debt and in Phillipines, they r not allowed to work beyond 50 years old and teachers r not allowed to scold students and weekend homework not allowed. Never hear of students commiting suicide in Phillipines.

And in Sg? Student suicides r not uncommon and today just heard of parents killing their own young child? Why why why? Does Sg have to be so stressful? Is such a stressful system useful even? Unemployment in grads are not uncommon even. Stress our kids to study so hard for what? When jobs r not gauranteed, foreigners r let in just because they r cheaper. To benefit the upper class but the lower and middle class just keep on suffering.

 

[mummy1234]

Majority of Sinkies are thankful to PAP.
Many would shudder if Singapore is to run by Chee Soon Juan & Tan Cheng Bock like.
Running a govt needs more than a noisy empty/half empty can.

Look around the region or the world.
Is Trump /Widodo/Mahathir better?
Are small /packed countries like HK better for your poor one?

Majority of Sgpn r threathened to vote for PAP more like it. They know their votes may not be secret and they r afraid of being persecuted should they vote for opposition.

I was a Singtel company Dr before and older Singtel staff who were my patients told me that persecution is real. Those who don't vote PAP were persecuted.

But in this internet age, we no longer have to be afraid as we r connected to the world.

 

[mummy1234]

Majority of Sinkies are thankful to PAP.
Many would shudder if Singapore is to run by Chee Soon Juan & Tan Cheng Bock like.
Running a govt needs more than a noisy empty/half empty can.

Look around the region or the world.
Is Trump /Widodo/Mahathir better?
Are small /packed countries like HK better for your poor one?

Those 'many' who shudder r the overpaid rich upper class. High time they shudder anyway. But having a million less makes no difference to a billionaire does it?

Do u have kids? Do u not worry for their future or r u just a bot?

 

[mummy1234]

Mummy56789:
Spare your own pocket 'idea' ? Lol

The best way to channel your money to the poor is still to raise your % (including mine) for income /properties & 15% GST.
Have more /spend more & pay more.
The 'hdb middle class with Mercedes/BMW) & the poor get proportional GST vouchers & in rebates.

I am the squeezed boiling frog middle class. And u want to boil me more?

I do donations directly to those whom I know who need help. Yes, I give my friends angbaos when they need help. Not even a loan but free money. When I know they really need help.

Even though this year I spend more than I earn, I still help them.

 

[mummy1234]

The government is not using our money wisely. Overspending and spending on wrong things and making wrong investments.

Is our dear PM's wife even a qualified investor with proper training? If she does not have the requisite training to do investments then why is she in charge of our reserves? Why why why?

 

[mummy1234]

I am strongly against gst for basic necessities.

And I am for minimum living wage for Sgpn.

 

[Mecisteus]

Why always squeeze the middle class to help the lower class. And not squeeze the upper class? Upper class will not feel a thing since they r so rich but middle class will be hurt.

Because as some says upper class r the people in charge of making up the rules and will not squeeze themselves?

Then when election time comes, don't be surprised by the results then.

Mummy how did you pass your Maths?

Median household income is lower than your single income..

Plus husband's income, your household income is more than 2x of median.

And you are still middle income?

 

[mummy1234]

Mummy how did you pass your Maths?

Median household income is lower than your single income..

Plus husband's income, your household income is more than 2x of median.

And you are still middle income?

My income these 2 years quite low as I only get paid if I work and I am working less now. No stamina, getting old.

 

[mummy1234]

Mummy how did you pass your Maths?

Median household income is lower than your single income..

Plus husband's income, your household income is more than 2x of median.

And you are still middle income?

Median household income now S$9 k plus right?

Hubby S$10k and my income like S$4-5k this year per month or less cause I worked less.

Work less better then don't qualify for big housing loans then hubby won't pester me to buy landed.

 

[Merg91]

Nothing with anti PAP but I am surprised that people like you who benefit so much from it becomes anti.

Cars aren't necessary for most. Pay if you want it.
Overcrowded roads /no carpark are nightmares.

Many developed countries face the same issues as
many live to ripe old age like in Japan, China, S Korea.
Even Scandinavian countries are strained to support
the welfare.

The poorer ones can choose really heavily subsidied flats too. Many rebates.

OMG, someone with some IQ can use Philippines as
an example of having good lives for most of its citizens.

Read more & you know students do commit suicide overseas.
Some would gun shoot teachers /schoolmates too.

... am anti PAP and u r probably paid to destroy whatever I write. But it is a fact that housing and cars are way overpriced in Sg and costs of living r strangling us. We r expected to work till we drop..........

My Pinoy maid tells me 6 mths of working for me and she can pay off her housing debt and in Philippines.... Never hear of students commiting suicide in Phillipines.

And in Sg? Student suicides r not uncommon and today just heard of parents kill.....

 

[Merg91]

GE is coming.

We all know you will move to Hougang.
Your real you can be traced from here.
Get all your S$ converted to RM, sell your home & settle your children education /your /hubby jobs in Malaysia.

Majority of Sgpn r threathened to vote for PAP more like it. They know their votes may not be secret and they r afraid of being persecuted should they vote for opposition.

 

[fzhfzh]

My Pinoy maid tells me 6 mths of working for me and she can pay off her housing debt and in Phillipines, they r not allowed to work beyond 50 years old and teachers r not allowed to scold students and weekend homework not allowed. Never hear of students commiting suicide in Phillipines.

lol this example is so bad. Would you rather that you have to go work in Philipines as maid for 6 months so that you can come back and pay off your house in Singapore? The house is cheap there because nobody wants to live there, house is expensive in Singapore because it's a great place.

 

[mummy1234]

lol this example is so bad. Would you rather that you have to go work in Philipines as maid for 6 months so that you can come back and pay off your house in Singapore? The house is cheap there because nobody wants to live there, house is expensive in Singapore because it's a great place.

Rubbish, house is expensive here because the government makes it so, it is their strategy to root us to Sg. I believe LKY mentioned it himself in his memoirs, I remember reading it.

But we should stop our heroworship of LKY and start thinking and reexamining if all his legacy of expensive houses and cars r wise...if cars and housing were not so expensive, we would have more money for retirement and not need to work till we collapse washing toilet bowls....

 

[mummy1234]

GE is coming.

We all know you will move to Hougang.
Your real you can be traced from here.
Get all your S$ converted to RM, sell your home & settle your children education /your /hubby jobs in Malaysia.

And why would I take the advice of someone who obviously doesn't like me...lol...

 

[fzhfzh]

Rubbish, house is expensive here because the government makes it so, it is their strategy to root us to Sg. I believe LKY mentioned it himself in his memoirs, I remember reading it.

But we should stop our heroworship of LKY and start thinking and reexamining if all his legacy of expensive houses and cars r wise...if cars and housing were not so expensive, we would have more money for retirement and not need to work till we collapse washing toilet bowls....

Have you ever ventured out of singapore to non-developing countries and see how much houses in cities cost? HDB is dirt cheap in comparison for urban housing...