Will minimum wage laws work here?

[otaku7]

let's be honest.
somewhere, somehow, someone will have to pay.

 

[stillgottheblues]

We will tax foreigners and PR 100% more taxes than what the local pay to support minimum wage scheme.

We don't want to be a country of slave masters.

 

[cal127]

Workfare = everybody chip in abit to topup low wage earner salary.

Min wage = companies forkout extra money above market rate.

Ppl calling for min wage basically unwilling to chip in abit for their own belief in paying low wage workers more.

They just want to virtue signal....ask somebody else to pay for their own beliefs. Shows u how much heart they really have for the low wage earner.

All talk but no action.

The danger of inflation is fast-rising wages, sure, but not as fast as prices intoduced by rent-seekers. You are just choosing whose pocket to chip in.

 

[traderF35]

so you feel is right that companies pass costs to consumers but keep quiet when they lower costs and maximise profits by hiring foreigners?

govt already say irregardless, gonna have 9% gst sooner or later.

The only way to be budget neutral is employer foot the higher cost. In real life you think you can make employer pay employees higher to meet minimum wage standard??? Si bay hard one! You're boss you want to sacrifice your profit??? If you can make the black heart bosses pay more pls share how. Not all black heart I came across many are very reasonable person.

BTW I wholehearted support PAP to raise GST to 9%! Pls do it asap. Mai tu liao!

 

[PeanutButtor]

work smart, make use of machineries instead of labour intensive, automate, use a grade progression system so that the locals see prospectives.

construction workers in japan even got their own fashion trend.

This were bought up by psp before the election.

That many area like in construction and gardening could have minimize the labours by using machines. We can minimise the cost, we can minimise the dormintories, quicker job done. Why are we so backward.

We must also noted that those grassroot towkays taking the contract they are also earning by headcounts. The more headcounts used for job, pappy have to cough out more money to get simple job done.

Why are we so backward!!!

 

[cal127]

The only way to be budget neutral is employer foot the higher cost. In real life you think you can make employer pay employees higher to meet minimum wage standard??? Si bay hard one! You're boss you want to sacrifice your profit??? If you can make the black heart bosses pay more pls share how. Not all black heart I came across many are very reasonable person.

BTW I wholehearted support PAP to raise GST to 9%! Pls do it asap. Mai tu liao!

Until jobs go begging because they don't pay enough, companies should pay what makes sense economically and the govt at all levels should ideally stay out of it despite the obvious attempts of others to paint anything other than a "neutral" picture of the effects, but, more often, it specifically disenfranchises the precise group (low income workers) it's intended to help. Its not going to be substantially more than what they're paying right now. For those getting their knickers in a bunch about inflation with the idea of MW, GST 9% is already inevitable likely in the second half of this cycle.

 

[hardwaregone]

You are aware that govt supports funds come from the taxpayers right?

And it's precisely because the below-minimum wages earners' income was too low for them to survive that taxpayers need to fork out, via various govt assistance schemes (eg silver support) to help these below-min-wage earners make ends meet.

No wonder bosses disagree: Why make bosses pay their low wage workers more - when they can make taxpayers pay for the shortfall?

No what I'm trying to say is the incentives will keep those poorly paid old folks contended with low pay.

Above $1100 income and their silver support scheme of up to $750 can be taken away.
The extremely poor folks are paid quarterly and are given some pocket money in some where.

So the poor folks will not vote this system away unless the WP can see what's buried deep in the foundation and promise that these foundations will stand solid for any changes that they propose.

Also btw:

$1000 = $5.68/hr
$1200 = $6.82/hr
$1500 = $8.52/hr

I use $1000 to $1500 because these wages offer the most incentives to the employer in term of rebate under the SEC.

$1000 offers the most incentives to the poorest bunch because they might be eligible to the silver support scheme for up to $750/quarter.

$1200 salary, the incentives is less so in the end the take home amount won't differ a lot from $1000.
To the employer, $1200 gets the maximum rebates for employers under the Special Employment Credit scheme. For elderlies, they are best to be paid this amount.

$1500 employees get a bit more from the salary and CPF, but again no longer eligible for the silver support scheme of up to $750/quarter.
Although the employer don't earn higher amount from the SEC rebate, they earn by reducing the corporate taxes as they pay higher salary.
If you offset everything, giving $1500 salary may give the employer even more kickbacks and earning than giving $1000/$1200 depending on the employee's age.


The above schemes were introduced by Tharman, and smartly done. At least money is returned to the people. HSK for the past few years introduced nothing, only tweaking Tharman's system here and there. Until he was kicked to do the Covid19 packages.
If want to redo the system, save the tax payer money, sure.
Take away all the rebates and see how those old folks survive with zero income.

WP's propose $1300 as min wage which is $7.38/hr.
It's not really better or worse to the current situation, the amount is neither here or there. So I don't think it will gather a lot of support unless PAP compliment by adjusting the qualifying eligibility for the schemes mentioned above.

Instead the main problem is will this create a minimum wage requirement for domestic workers and bangla and cause all cost to increase? Don't forget that many elderlies need caretakers to assist their later life.

 

[amognoix]

If academic journal says you amognoix should kill himself, will you?.
Just because a "academic" says something doesn't mean we need to follow.

You don't understand what is evidence-based or peer-review, do you?

Chances of an random online article asking you to end your life is significantly higher than a peer-reviewed academic journal.

Study more, it helps.

 

[Poomer]

The only way to be budget neutral is employer foot the higher cost. In real life you think you can make employer pay employees higher to meet minimum wage standard??? Si bay hard one! You're boss you want to sacrifice your profit??? If you can make the black heart bosses pay more pls share how. Not all black heart I came across many are very reasonable person.

BTW I wholehearted support PAP to raise GST to 9%! Pls do it asap. Mai tu liao!

ok so bringing in the 9% gst, isit relevant? since minimum wage or no, we are still gonna have to pay the 9%...

 

[eclipsemints]

so fast show his true colors alr.

minimum wage is not to give the lower paid employees more money or higher salaries, but to ensure that they are a paid a fair wage

this is recognized by everyone who is talking for or against minimum wage.

the PAP has talked and discussed minimum wages before in parliament and even the newspapers has discussed about it before.

but there has NEVER been any discussion about, if the "cost" of increasing wages should be transferred to the consumer, or anyone besides the employer - simply because it should never be a question about WHO TO TRANSFER THE COST TO

what minimum wage does is to make it illegal to pay your employees a wage that does not allow them to live properly

this is why minimum wage is called minimum wage. it is the lowest amount that an employee can pay their workers.

dun come talk about "increasing costs" simply because if you are paying your employees minimum or above minimum wage, your costs would not have increased at all!

if you are paying your employees below minimum wage, then YOU need to pay your employees more.

even the PAP is able to recognise this and they themselves have stated that singapore does not have minimum wage because it would be set so low that it would be make setting a minimum redundant!

source https://www.ilo.org/global/topics/wages/minimum-wages/definition/WCMS_439072/lang--en/index.htm

https://www.todayonline.com/big-read/perennial-debate-singapore-minimum-wage

https://www.pap.org.sg/news/ge2020-news/why-no-minimum-wage/

Jamus is a proper economist with good credentials while you are just some unknown person voicing your armchair theories. You say Jamus wrong no one will hieu you lor.

 

[Kumgong]

You happy folk get paid fck all so you can have cheap food issit?

Sent from An Alternative Viewpoint On Life using GAGT

I’ve said it before, if hawker food raise price, the rich and middle class can afford it. But not the poor. So what to do at that point? Give even more subsidies and food stamps to the poor? Then raise income tax/GST to pay for those?

Cost of living is one of the most important metric for the common people. You may be earning 5k a month and can easily afford restaurants and cafes, but not regular folks.

 

[Poomer]

it's only a benefit if the foreigners gets employed. nothing at all if they gets removed.

u dun include them, u only put sinkie in worse uncompetitive position and result in MORE foreigners coming in to take that 10% sinkie job.

really ish any monkey can come here and pick up low lvl jobs.

u make that 10% locals more expensive, but employers continue to exploit the low cost FW loophole, then whats the point? defeats the purpose altogether.

seems to be two issues. if the doors are wide open, we are asking every Singaporeans to compete in terms of wages with every 3rd world villager in the world. the doors should have a doorman who very closely scrutinise each and every visitor. why should you let the monkey in when you have no lack of monkeys locally?

once that is achieved, then minimum wages is implemented for Singaporeans to safeguard the low wage workers against skyrocketing cost of living.

there are many ways to go about it. it's just whether the Singaporean government care enough for the people to implement them. Set a 10% foreigner quota, irregardless of WP, SP or EP. Can tweak this for labour intensive industries such as construction/shipbuilding.

Either way, it doesnt make sense to have 2 million foreigners when we have a 3% unemployment rate.

 

[mccmmm]

Remember between those jobs there's always middlemen suck their salaries and shake legs .
Implement a minimum wage able to prevent these *******s drinking the workers blood, good for nothing humans beings.

 

[traderF35]

ok so bringing in the 9% gst, isit relevant? since minimum wage or no, we are still gonna have to pay the 9%...

All related mah. You cannot say you want ice kachang without the ice tio bo? One cost will lead to another cost... sheep wool come from sheep body mah. How to make employer pay, you share some tips?
Said it before and say again: raise GST to 9%. Mai tu liao.

 

[Hierophant]

If cheap labour but still things are expensive, where all the money go ah?

 

[notical]

for the middle class, yes the key thing to focus now is how we are going to compete with the world and how locals can have a level playing field.

but for the struggling class earning under 2 or even 3k, i wonder how they survive.

it might be harsh coming from me, but in some cases (not all) they deserve it due to their mindset.

for example, if a couple's household income is 3k, why did they have 3 kids? its not a matter of 'because we want more children', but instead a matter of 'can you afford what you want'. the society shouldn't have to pay for their 'wants' and mistaken viewpoint.

as another example, a document controller role can earn 2k+. if both the couple are working, why would the household income be below 4k? is it an excuse for one of the couple to not be working (such as looking after a kid when their parents can help out) instead of a legitimate reason?

if its about "foreign talents" causing such roles to be hard for locals to get, that's another issue

 

[Xeservico]

I do not think that the opposition should focus on minimum wage now, as implementing them would not solve the problem, which is the diminishing size of the middle class (of which a portion are SME bosses). Having a minimum wage won't push those at the bottom into the middle class, but instead squeeze the middle class more and further widen the gap between upper class and middle class. At least, that's what I think.

MNC relies on this kind of labour way more than SMEs. It would bring the upper class down if their profit margins decrease from minimum wage.

 

[Baddieko]

The fearmonger is real by ruling party. They trying to protect companies hiring low wage workers. But they tell u it increase unemployment.

This policy works in europe and US.

Sg has high cost of living still use cheap labour. The bosses and govt are v greedy here.

 

[Poomer]

All related mah. You cannot say you want ice kachang without the ice tio bo? One cost will lead to another cost... sheep wool come from sheep body mah. How to make employer pay, you share some tips?
Said it before and say again: raise GST to 9%. Mai tu liao.

how is it related?

first you say wah later cost of living go up, then 9% gst ppl kpkb

problem is whether cost of living go up or not, still 9% gst.

so what you talking?

there are 101 ways to go about it. I'm not paid to give solutions. If you want, please look for your million dollar minister. If you want me to be charitable, and help with suggestions/solutions, I really dont mind if he's just earning say $100k per annum. Ask me to give suggestions/solutions to help million dollar ministers justify their obscene amount they are earning? No thanks.

 

[Poomer]

it might be harsh coming from me, but in some cases (not all) they deserve it due to their mindset.

for example, if a couple's household income is 3k, why did they have 3 kids? its not a matter of 'because we want more children', but instead a matter of 'can you afford what you want'. the society shouldn't have to pay for their 'wants' and mistaken viewpoint.

as another example, a document controller role can earn 2k+. if both the couple are working, why would the household income be below 4k? is it an excuse for one of the couple to not be working (such as looking after a kid when their parents can help out) instead of a legitimate reason?

if its about "foreign talents" causing such roles to be hard for locals to get, that's another issue

I wont disagree with much of your statement. But you have to look at it holistically, there are a good number falling through the cracks. And I'm a strong believer that we are only as strong as our weakest link. (Look no further than the dorms as a good example).

We can only move forward as a nation if everyone moves forward together. If we don't cracks will form. Mindset can change through education. But to leave the disadvantage to their own devices coz they deserve it. I really disagree with this.