Will minimum wage laws work here?

[Poomer]

Read properly first

Since when i say tipping is the right way?

Dont act like fake news only read what u wanna read and pretend everything else i wrote is invisible.

Address this.

U want minimum wage?

This i say.

Minimum wage exist in SG in the form of workfare already. You want more for it? Just adjust this scheme accordingly. Why die die must minimum wage?

So far the only argument against this i can see is. Workfare is Privatizing profits and socializing costs. Hence we must make companies pay for "exploiting" low wage earners.

To which i replied.
The companies didnt exploit anyone. They didnt force anyone to work for them for that low wage. If you have a beef to pick...u start with lookong at govt FW policies and dont just go straight to whacking the employers. Thats not solving the problem...thats just fixing the symptom.

And the moment you fight for minimum wage. You are employing the force of the state against employers who did not use force against low wage earners. That in itself is immoral....committing one immoral act to fix another immoral act will resolve nothing in the long run.

Following the above. I did point out that workfare already exist, which uses taxpayers(our money) monies to subsidize low wage earners since we feel they dont earn enough.

So when people kpkb about socializing costs. Im asking why do minimum wage pushers like you. Want to push all the duty of your "strong" beliefs onto employers?

Whats wrong with chipping in through workfare? Are you so selfish to the point that you want employers to bite the bullet so you can feel good about yourself because you did NOTHING but managed to "help" the low wage earner?

Coz you are showing me nothing when you being a "strong advocate" for minimum wage right now....doing absolutely nothing to help low wage earners when u can really make a difference to their lives by tipping them without relying on the govt.

If u did that. Then maybe i will consider your min wage argument with abit more weight.

Until then....u are just another virtue signaller. Claiming to care "very strongly" while waiting for others to pay.....when u could jolly well do it right now by tipping low wage earners(that you feel so strongly for) while we debate what is the best way to raise wages for low wage earners.

You suggested tipping as a way of doing something. Asking why are people who are asking for minimum wage not doing so... No one else bandied the idea around. Only you. Who is the others to pay? The companies? It is merely a cost of doing business. Do you kpkb about morality ehen landlords hike their rental? So why the sudden hoo hah over a small increase in wage costs for most companies. employers who are only able to sustain operations only by explotiation of cheap labour has to change how they operate or their situation will be untenable. this is not some backwater village in india or africa mate. funny when Singaporeans workers are exploited, nary a sound from you. But when companies have to pay a little more it becomes what an immoral suggestion.

why insist minimum wage must be applied to singaporeans and foreigners alike when there is no requirement to do so. So many ways around it to have minimum wage benefit only Singaporeans.

Workfare is a temporary measure it is not permanent. When government stop subsidising workfare, they are merely keeping the can down the road.

 

[kiryu86]

before u open thread n kao pei kao bu abt our voting , the world is dying from a pandemic now that had no solution to any recovery

 

[maniamcool]

seems like people here can't accept that there are people who don't take sides with either party

One must either be Oppo or PAP IB

jin satki edmw

 

[d3n]

I only believe...

Why ep & sp got min wage but citizens boh

And because of the min wage these 2 pass possess... floodgate opens... many come in... jobs taken away from citizens and citizens dun have a guarantee min wage.

So these FT is earning better then most citizens.

In Australia everyone entitle to min wage.

www.dennislee.co HardwareZone Forums app

 

[Swisspers]

1. If the food stall assistant wages is $1,200, the stall owner will be paying $1,404 including 17% employer cpf contribution. The food stall assistant will take home $960 after employee cpf contribution.

2. The assumption is that this food stall only hires 1 assistant to run the entire stall by himself.
If that's the case let's assume this food stall opens on Mon-Fri for lunch and dinner, & Sat for lunch. The assistant is required to work from 10.30am - 2.30pm (Mon-Sat) and 5pm-9pm (Mon-Fri), inclusive of preparation and cleaning time.
This will be a total of 44 hours per week. https://www.mom.gov.sg/employment-practices/hours-of-work-overtime-and-rest-days
In the month of July 2020, the staff would have worked 192 hours.

3. The assumption of 100 bowls of food sold per day is unreasonably low. Let's assume the stall sells 25 bowls of food per hour, from 11am-2pm & 5.30pm-8.30pm.
In the month of July 2020, the stall would be opened for 144 hours, with an expected total of 3600 bowls sold.

4. If the min wage is set at $1,300, the stall owner will need to pay $1,521 (including 17% employer cpf contribution) in wages. The food stall assistant will take home $1,040.

5. In order to maintain the same profit margin, all things being equal, the additional price each bowl of food will need to be sold at $117/3600 = $0.0325 per bowl.
However we all know that prices will not be increased by $0.0325 per bowl. Most likely it'll increase by $0.20 per bowl, or a 6.67% increase in food price.

6. There's no point in comparing this price increase to the median wage. What's the point? You might as well compare this price increase to the highest income bracket to show no discernible impact.

If the point of min wage law is to help low wage workers, then this price increase should be measured against the wages of low wage workers instead.

Therefore, the food stall assistant is going to take home $80 more due to min wage law.

However, since each bowl of food is going to cost $0.20, then the total increase this food assistant will spend on food is $0.60 x 31 = $18.60 (3 meals a day in the month of July 2020).

So out of $80 increase in salary, $18.60 is already spent on food. How about the rest of his other spending? Town council cleaning fees go up? Telco fees go up? Transportation? School fees? Groceries? Utilities? etc etc

Here

The actual increase should only be $0.03 for this example, but my assumption of an increase of $0.20 is pegged to the lowest meaningful amount, the amount used for toilet entry at hawker center.

During CNY when companies need to pay staff another $100 to $200 more, do the food stalls increase prices by only $0.03? Or $0.06?

 

[Eternal-fire]

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[RAWR!!]

workfare in most countries ish for a diff objective. workfare ish more on enticing those ppl already out of the workforce to come out and work instead of depending on welfare. so in this way these ppl from dependent on the welfare system (and leeching the society) becomes contributor.

whereas min wage ish to make sure those in the workforce, but earning low income, gets a fair income.

thats why in angmoh countries both scheme can work together. their target ish different.

I'm more towards looking at the objective than the naming of the scheme. To me, workfare and min wage achieves similar objectives via different methods.

But, i strongly discourage for schemes to go through the government when it can be done at point of sale. A portion of the cost will be induced due to going through the govt's hands.

 

[maniamcool]

TS is pappy IB? So u sapported Population White Paper (from pappy) blindly? It shows the dangers of blind pappy IB.

Pappy IB really vote with emotion.

Another good example of emotional politics

 

[hereticBoi]

Exactly, which is why this "Vote oppo because I'm anti-pap" mentality really need to stop

ask yourself if dirty politics, opposition smearing etc will actually affect your livelihood?

If min. wage is actually implemented in Singapore by WP, the effects on your job and lives would be much more tangible than reading news about POFMA.

Please wake up. Don't let your hatred against PAP blind you.

So that means voting for pap means we approve if their dirty tactics and smearing because it doesnt affect us. We are supposed to pretend not to see just like you all pretend not to see the foreign worker dormitory right?

 

[pureice]

haha relax~~ the election is done and people voted. The problems today and yester years may be different, hence could be a good signalling to the gov.

The celebrity status, witch hunting and idolising is really in bad taste and i think the worst is tt extremist lady which got in ( i still think its a bad role model for youth).

The population specturm will always consist of diff perspectives and emotions mah~~ cannot just discount them just because we think differently. but this may also reflects that as a society, we have actually grow in standard of living to put our focus on other matters rather than just bread and butter. Or could be a well to do younger gen~ either way i hope we continue to focus on real wage increase, employability and pro biz~~ so as to continue to prosper~~ and be careful of these SJWs and extremist ideals seeping into our society youth~

 

[hereticBoi]

Another good example of emotional politics

Then tell your fellow ib not to threaten us with barisan national or whatever

 

[hereticBoi]

haha relax~~ the election is done and people voted. The problems today and yester years may be different, hence could be a good signalling to the gov.

The celebrity status, witch hunting and idolising is really in bad taste and i think the worst is tt extremist lady which got in ( i still think its a bad role model for youth).

The population specturm will always consist of diff perspectives and emotions mah~~ cannot just discount them just because we think differently. but this may also reflects that as a society, we have actually grow in standard of living to put our focus on other matters rather than just bread and butter. Or could be a well to do younger gen~ either way i hope we continue to focus on real wage increase, employability and pro biz~~ so as to continue to prosper~~ and be careful of these SJWs and extremist ideals seeping into our society youth~

Its a good chance to scold pap ib why relax?

 

[Anotherlap]

The current system works better with progressive wages and work fare. Its more focused and targeted. In a way it's similar to minimum wages but better.

Posted from PCWX using fingers, what else?

 

[hwbest]

just because we’ve been educated that minimum wage is wrong doesn’t make it wrong. it doesn’t make it right either. however, it requires a more open mind.

 

[s-ghost]

and PAP policies are 100% good for everyone?

TS ah TS, are you the one who blindly vote for PAP?

 

[maniamcool]

haha relax~~ the election is done and people voted. The problems today and yester years may be different, hence could be a good signalling to the gov.

The celebrity status, witch hunting and idolising is really in bad taste and i think the worst is tt extremist lady which got in ( i still think its a bad role model for youth).

The population specturm will always consist of diff perspectives and emotions mah~~ cannot just discount them just because we think differently. but this may also reflects that as a society, we have actually grow in standard of living to put our focus on other matters rather than just bread and butter. Or could be a well to do younger gen~ either way i hope we continue to focus on real wage increase, employability and pro biz~~ so as to continue to prosper~~ and be careful of these SJWs and extremist ideals seeping into our society youth~

Finally someone that talks sense.

Perhaps our society has truly matured beyond bread and butter issues, but in this time of crisis, should we really concern ourselves with idealistic issues such as gender wage gap and min. wage?

Anyway, what's done is done. We have the next 5 years to rebuild and get ourselves out of this mess.

 

[parchiao]

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This is photo of TS?

IBs no more kkj, all chopped. No wonder so sour.

 

[20kjinsatki]

Sengkang got 5 years to repent. Just wait and watch Raeesah ask for singapore to let refugees in.

More foreigners!

 

[Hamtoro]

TS ah TS...didn't you all say need to do some soul searching.

Obviously you all IB really disconnected with the rest

Never learn

 

[RAWR!!]

Your argument is on point ... if the numbers is as stated limited to 100K people, den the real context is if it's better than the workfare now?

Another impact is the unemployment effect cause to this 100K people, are we harming more than helping? Because in this bracket got many diff job scopes/age groups. A blanket minimum wage imho will not be better than a targetted workfare. Since it has better control, easier to give/adjust. I think the the main aim is to ensure low income gets a rise in income - without jeopadising their employability.(and others who wants to enter the labour market).

Tbh, i am not very familiar with the criteria of workfare but i am not saying that both are mutually exclusive. With min wage, the cost can be shifted from the workfare scheme to the market where it is more efficient in the implementation. Or you rather all the govt agencies do all the tedious background checks and wasting taxpayer's money?

I have already mentioned that if you raise the wage, the employee must self help and work to justify the pay. If the company cannot afford to pay that much, the business model is wrong somehow as it relies on exploitation and not value creation. Then again, these services are essential services, hardly to cause unemployment especially with MOM quota in place.