Wine

[kangzkangz]

Hopefully one day a noobie like me can join u all.

You can join us anytime! In fact about half of the participants are newbies!

 

[ikileo]

after almost 4 days of no internet cos i was living in the countryside visiting towns and wineries, i have lug bag 2 bottles of olive oil and 8 bottles of wine!

 

[kia0042]

Hi,
I am glad to know HWZ wine thread here. I like wine and I have half a glass daily. I noticed that I sleep very well when I drink wine before bed, therefore, I have been practicing this for years, it is shameful to say that I actually don't really understand how to appreciate them, and I always have a thought that expensive wine means better, is it true?
I've finished a bottle of Chateau Margaux 2001 recently, the wine store keeper highly recommended it to me and I found it taste not much different from those I bought from Esso petrol kiosk!! When I sip the wine, I feel nothing but only wine fragrance in my mouth, as for those I bought from petrol kisok ($30), they either taste sour or sweet. So, feel nothing in mouth means good?? Paying 50x more just to get the "no feel in mouth" doesn't seems much worthy..... sigh...

 

[ikileo]

hi kia0042, thanks for joining the thread.

the quick lesson is: higher $$ doesn't mean better wine. And yet most of the best wine in the world have high price tags.

it all comes down to your personal palate. don't drink wine simply because it's 'expensive' or from a 'popular' producer that had high scores and everyone else is drinking it. drink diversively from as many countries, varietals and price points that you can manage; that is how you can develop your palate to pick up the nuances.

as for your expensive '01 Margaux, it is truly one of the top producers in bordeaux. The reason why people pay big bucks for wine are a mix of a couple of factors:

- Small production (low supply = high demand = high prices)
- Brand equity
- Wine Critic scores
- Higher quality of wine

when i say higher quality of wine usually means the wine can last and age longer and develop greater complexities and flavours into an even greater sophisticated wine. When i pay the extra money for good wine, it had better last a long time, the nose must be good and the flavours in the mouth must be complex and well crafted to show the quality of the grapes and the skill of the wine maker.

 

[ikileo]

here's the full run down of what I bought at the 5 wineries I visited in Tuscany:

Castello di Monsanto:
- 2006 Castello di Monsanto Chianti Classico Riserva "Il Poggio"

Isole e Olena:
- None

Biondi Santi:
- 2007 Biondi Santi Rosato (which they gave)
- 2010 Biondi Santi Extra Virgin Olive Oil (unfiltered)

Castello di Ama:
- 2009 Castello di Ama Chiuso (Pinot Noir & Sangiovese Blend)
- 2007 Castello di Ama Chianti Classico
- 2010 Castello di Ama Extra Virgin Olive Oil (filtered)

Felsina:
- 2007 Felsina Chianti Classico Riserva "Rancia"
- 2006 Felsina Maestro Raro (100% Cabernet Sauvignon)


I will post tasting notes of all the wines i tasted and drank over the past week.

 

[kia0042]

Thanks ikileo.
As I have chances to redeem free wines recently, therefore, I've chosen the expensive one, thinking it might taste better. I had another bottle La Fleur Petrus 1998 opened and it tastes..... sigh~~~what a disappointment.

 

[ikileo]

did u just open them and taste them? did u let them breathe and air?

 

[looiwte]

Welcome back ikileo!
I just saw some Felsinas at the 1855 shop last Sat, incidentally they were having free tasting for 5 Bordeauxs, nice shop! Interesting to see premium ranges for producers like Yellow Tail, Zonin, Beringer etc.

How was driving through the Tuscan countryside? Is it hot over there now?
And most importantly, how was the Felsina estate? Tasted any Brunellos?

 

[ikileo]

Welcome back ikileo!
I just saw some Felsinas at the 1855 shop last Sat, incidentally they were having free tasting for 5 Bordeauxs, nice shop! Interesting to see premium ranges for producers like Yellow Tail, Zonin, Beringer etc.

How was driving through the Tuscan countryside? Is it hot over there now?
And most importantly, how was the Felsina estate? Tasted any Brunellos?

Yeah we can get stuff from Felsina here in SG, just that it’s much more expensive.
The Tuscan countryside is beautiful, if I have time after work today I can post some up pictures of the countryside. Rolling hills and vineyards all around. Weather is pretty good, day time can be a little hot if in the direct sunlight but night time is very cool and chill (sub 20 degrees, around 15 on average at nite)

Felsina was great. We were the only ones there at the time of the visit so we had the full attention of the person hosting us. Got to see their estate, cellars, wine production and also their pack of about 10 dogs. Most of the dogs are for hunting as they have a hunting reserve behind their estate while 2 of the dogs are trained to smell truffles.

We tasted their full range of wines from the most entry level to their more premium wines. We tasted their Vinsanto and their Grappa as well, so about 12 of their products. The tasting is free as long as you buy something. So I bought their single vineyard chianti classic riserva and their 100% cabernet sauvignon wine.

I drank Brunellos when I was visiting Montalcino. Visited Biondi Santi for their tasting and at a wine bar in Montalcino, I managed to taste the 04 Soldera Riserva, another legendary Burnello.

 

[ikileo]

here's the full run down of what I bought at the 5 wineries I visited in Tuscany:

Castello di Monsanto:
- 2006 Castello di Monsanto Chianti Classico Riserva "Il Poggio"

Isole e Olena:
- None

Biondi Santi:
- 2007 Biondi Santi Rosato (which they gave)
- 2010 Biondi Santi Extra Virgin Olive Oil (unfiltered)

Castello di Ama:
- 2009 Castello di Ama Chiuso (Pinot Noir & Sangiovese Blend)
- 2007 Castello di Ama Chianti Classico
- 2010 Castello di Ama Extra Virgin Olive Oil (filtered)

Felsina:
- 2007 Felsina Chianti Classico Riserva "Rancia"
- 2006 Felsina Maestro Raro (100% Cabernet Sauvignon)


I will post tasting notes of all the wines i tasted and drank over the past week.

In addition, my friend and I shared a bottle of 1997 Salicutti Brunello di Montalcino, A stellar wine from a stellar vintage. The most expensive wine I bought; good thing we shared the cost. But will won’t be drinking it yet.

 

[looiwte]

Brilliant! Thanks for sharing.

Was thinking of going Verrazzano (http://www.verrazzano.com/) for Chianti tasting, and Poggio Antico (http://www.poggioantico.com/) for Brunello, but from reading up Wine Doctor, seems Felsina or Fonterutoli are more famous for their wines.

Should I look out for some Super Tuscans as well? Or are they still Super Pricey??
I think I'm becoming the typical greedy S'porean tourist; should adhere more to "less is more" adage.

How would you describe driving across the hill towns? Any advice?

Thankss!

 

[kia0042]

did u just open them and taste them? did u let them breathe and air?

I have heard of wine decanter, but I don't have one. I open the bottle and drink at once, can't wait.
Btw, how long do I have to leave the bottle open (breathe)? Which type of wine needs to decant, does it mean cheap one usually not necessary and expensive is a must?

I wish to join wine free tasting someday, however, I am shy to drink wine/alcohol in public area coz my face turns red easily.

 

[ikileo]

Brilliant! Thanks for sharing.

Was thinking of going Verrazzano (http://www.verrazzano.com/) for Chianti tasting, and Poggio Antico (http://www.poggioantico.com/) for Brunello, but from reading up Wine Doctor, seems Felsina or Fonterutoli are more famous for their wines.

Should I look out for some Super Tuscans as well? Or are they still Super Pricey??
I think I'm becoming the typical greedy S'porean tourist; should adhere more to "less is more" adage.

How would you describe driving across the hill towns? Any advice?

Thankss!

The wineries I visited were all top notch since I wanted to visit the wineries that are typically held in high regard in the chianti region. There are many many many producers of varying sizes in chianti region; but the ones I visited can be regarded as among the better ones.
Castello di Monsanto: I had their chianti classic riserva wine in SG 3 years ago that blew my mind so I had to visit them. Beautiful winery with a stunning cellar. We were the only ones that morning so we had a lovely tasting in their lush garden. The first to plant Cabernet grapes in Chianti and they make a very delicious and long lasting Cabernet. We tasted their 2000 Cabernet and it still tasted very young and vibrant. Their 100% chardonnay is mouth wateringly delectable. I bought a bottle of their riserva which I have been waiting for 3 years.

Isole e Olena: A winery in Chianti Classico that is known for its hardcore producer who is obsessive over the quality of grapes, climate and wine making techniques; often travelling in the off seasons to exchange ideas with other wine makers from all over the world. The first to plant Syrah in Chianti Classico, a tiny bit of their syrah makes its way into their Chianti Classico as well. They also make a 100% Syrah which is a delectable mix of a southern and northern rhone Syrah but with some Tuscan flair.

Biondi Santi: The legendary winery in Montalcino and the progenitor of Brunello wine. High in acid, their wines were made with food in mind while their top end Riserva (which can go in the thousands of euros, depending on vintage) I understated with elegance, refinement and complexity.

Castello di Ama: Some of the most expensive Chianti Classico Riserva wines in the region and well worth the price too. Crazy amount of concentration and depth in their wines. Famous for their unique blends, high quality chianti classico riserveras and a world famous 100% merlot (they were the first to introduce merlot in the vineyards). Their estate reflects the owners passion for viticulture and also contemporary art where special pieces of contemporary art were commissioned to be built on their estate, making it one of the most unique ones in Chianti.

Felsina Beradenga: Right on the edge of the official Chianti Classico wine region, Felsina has made a name for itself in the international market for producing consistently high quality Chianti Classico up to their riservas with their famous single vineyards ‘Rancia’ and ‘Fontalloro’. And in my opinion, one of the best ‘bang for your buck’ in terms of high end Chianti Classicos. They too carry a wide range of delicious wines due to the passion of the winemaker to experiment with more wines: such as a sauvignon blanc and cabernet. In the corner of their cellar are stacks of bottles that have been wrapped up, asking what it was, our hostess said the winemaker is experimenting with a ‘spumante’ or sparkling wine made in the Metodo Classico (or méthode champenoise) way which is the same way they make sparkling wine in champagne.

There are other wineries in Chianti that I would love to visit in addition to those I already have, but due to the constraint of time I had to give them a miss. Good ones such as:
- Fontodi
- Riecine
- Le Fonti

If you have the time, I would highly suggest you to visit Bolgheri, the home of the SuperTuscans. Many good producers there. The reason why they are called Super Tuscans was because back in the day with the old laws, you could only make Chianti or Chianti Classico and had to have a certain percentage of Sangiovese grapes along with specific quantities of certain varietals of local white grapes.

The producer, Antinori, didn’t like to play by the rules so he made one of the first super Tuscans and the main wine that really shook up the industry: Tignanello. It had no white grapes and contained 80% sangiovese, and the rest a blend of Cabernet Sauvignon and Cabernet Franc.

Naturally it couldn’t be classified as a Chianti and had to be labeled as a ‘table wine’, but it was probably one of the highest quality during that period. People soon realized the very high quality in the wine and there was great demand, soon there were other such producers. Decades later, the regulations changed so that Chianti has to be 80% Sangiovese while the remaining portion can be any red grape of their choice; this allows wine makers to be unique and creative.

Wines that don’t adhere to this 80/20 regulation cannot be considered a DOCG Chianti Classico but instead of being called a table wine, they are not considered at IGT, which means they are wines of high quality but not of traditional blends. So you can have a 100% syrah or 50%-50% of Sangio and Cabernet and it will be an IGT. Super Tuscans were coined in the US back in the day to indicate tuscan wines of high quality that are not DOCG. Of course now it’s quite commercialized, so just because you get an IGT wine or something labeled as ‘super tuscan’, it may not be that super.

As for planning for your holiday, take it slow, don’t rush it. Plan at most 2 winery visit in a day. Perhaps one in the morning, have a nice lunch, then one in the afternoon. This is not Australia or the US where you drive in, go to the tasting room, then drive off in less than 30 minutes. My visits to the various estates span from at least 1.5hrs to 3 hours each. Plan 1 to 2 visits a day, visit some nearby cities or small villages that have great little restaurants and eateries.

Driving in the countryside is very beautiful and relaxing, the lanes sometimes can be one just one lane for yourself and another for opposing traffic. Just be careful of the many many blind corners and undulating terrain. The highways have more traffic but the roads are not evenly paved due to them filling up the potholes but not leveling them off. The GPS is your savior.

If you got more questions about travelling there or about the wine, let me know.

 

[ikileo]

I have heard of wine decanter, but I don't have one. I open the bottle and drink at once, can't wait.
Btw, how long do I have to leave the bottle open (breathe)? Which type of wine needs to decant, does it mean cheap one usually not necessary and expensive is a must?

I wish to join wine free tasting someday, however, I am shy to drink wine/alcohol in public area coz my face turns red easily.

Most, if not all wines, benefit from some decanting. Cheaper entry level supermarket wines can breathe for 15-30 minutes at most. For more premium wines, depending on the wines itself and how old they are, younger wines need to breathe longer while older ones much less. Keep in mind, these are just guidelines and rule of thumbs, not the law.

Due to the inherent variety of wine styles, some wines need more air than others. But it is crucial to let it breathe for the aromas and flavours to develop, because it usually doesn’t show as well when it’s fresh out of the bottle.. Your 2001 Margaux probably needed 3 hours or more in the decanter.

If you are fearful of your red face, you could taste the wine and spit. When I was in Italy, I did that for all the winery visits because I had to drive afterwards.

 

[looiwte]

Great advice, thanks again.

Not spit before while tasting wine so it'll be a first... guess no two ways about it if one is to drive.

I'll have about 3.5 days and am thinking of going to check out the hill-towns San Gimigniano & Volterra, Siena & Montalcino and Arezzo & Cortona. But with my navigation skills (even with GPS) I'll probably end up everywhere other than planned!

Everything you mentioned sounds pretty awesome... btw how was your experience with Vin Santo (worth it? sounds ex) and the white wine Vernaccia di San Gimignano?

Anyway back to Sg, Carrefour having Wine Fair again. May check it out this evening, though I'm really not familiar with French wines. Time to get educated/intoxicated then!

 

[kia0042]

Most, if not all wines, benefit from some decanting. Cheaper entry level supermarket wines can breathe for 15-30 minutes at most. For more premium wines, depending on the wines itself and how old they are, younger wines need to breathe longer while older ones much less. Keep in mind, these are just guidelines and rule of thumbs, not the law.

Due to the inherent variety of wine styles, some wines need more air than others. But it is crucial to let it breathe for the aromas and flavours to develop, because it usually doesn’t show as well when it’s fresh out of the bottle.. Your 2001 Margaux probably needed 3 hours or more in the decanter.

If you are fearful of your red face, you could taste the wine and spit. When I was in Italy, I did that for all the winery visits because I had to drive afterwards.

Thanks for your tips. I have never let my wines breath before, this show how impatient I am.
Taste and spit, can I? Great! I can visit the wine tasting next time!

 

[ikileo]

Great advice, thanks again.

Not spit before while tasting wine so it'll be a first... guess no two ways about it if one is to drive.

I'll have about 3.5 days and am thinking of going to check out the hill-towns San Gimigniano & Volterra, Siena & Montalcino and Arezzo & Cortona. But with my navigation skills (even with GPS) I'll probably end up everywhere other than planned!

Everything you mentioned sounds pretty awesome... btw how was your experience with Vin Santo (worth it? sounds ex) and the white wine Vernaccia di San Gimignano?

Anyway back to Sg, Carrefour having Wine Fair again. May check it out this evening, though I'm really not familiar with French wines. Time to get educated/intoxicated then!

You’ll get used to spitting. All the tasting rooms provide spit buckets for you to spit into. Especially if you are driving, it is a must to spit. When I go for big wine tastings I would typically spit most of them and perhaps only swallow those that I enjoyed.

If you’d wanna do all those cities in the 3.5 days that you have, it is possible, but you will not have time to visit wineries. And even if you did, it will be more of a touch and go. Make your appointments in advance and see which days the wineries are open, some close on weekends on one day during the mid-week. Same for restaurants that you may want to visit. My rough timetable in the Tuscan country side was:

Day 1: Winery 1 -> Lunch in Village 1 -> Winery 2 -> Lunch in Village 2 -> Back to Country house

Day 2: Longer drive to Winery 1 in Montalcino -> Lunch in Village 1 -> Montalcino walk around + dinner -> Back to Country house

Day 3: Winery 1 -> Winery 2 + Lunch -> Siena walk around + dinner -> Back to Country house

Day 4: Check out, drive back to Florence.

Potentially if you’d want to visit the smaller towns and squeeze in winery visits, I would suggest you extend another 1-2 more days. If not, scale down your winery or town visits. Keep in mind some wineries have strict visitation time slots that you have to abide by.

With the GPS, it’s quite easy provided your map is updated. Don’t worry about it.

Vinsanto is something interesting. It is extremely sweet but full of complex and layered flavours. It is usually made from local white grapes such as Trebbiano and Malvasia that are dried on straw mats over the winter before vinification. It is then aged in wax sealed barrels for a minimum of 3 years, but good producers will usually let it sit for anywhere between 7 to 10 years before release. You will get an amber hue in the vinsanto. And every winemaker makes vinsanto in a different way. Some age it for less or more years, some blend newer and older vintages to achieve a consistent taste year on year.

Very delicious, but not something you can quaff in large quantities due to its concentration of flavours. Traditionally, they are consumed with local almond cookies (Cantucci) which are dipped in the Vinsanto. I wanted to buy a bottle back but no space and I ran out of budget, even though they are not terribly expensive.

As for Vernaccia from San Gimignano, it is very addictive because of its light, refreshing and tasty aspects; not to mention very affordable for a good bottle. When chilled down, it goes very well with with local charcuterie (cuts of cured meat).

 

[ikileo]

Thanks for your tips. I have never let my wines breath before, this show how impatient I am.
Taste and spit, can I? Great! I can visit the wine tasting next time!

letting your wines breathe is well worth the wait. u can try with 2 bottles of affordable wine. You open one and let it breathe for half an hour or so. when you are about to taste it, you open the 2nd bottle and taste and compare.

as mentioned in an earlier post, tasting and spitting in the buckets provided for you is a common practice during wine tastings. people in the wine industry sometimes have to taste hundreds of wines a day and if they were to sip all of them, they'd probably be hammered before they are halfway through

 

[Beta_Tester]

i need a wine storage.. that fridge thingy. My mom demand that me n my Dad get our wine out of her fridge.

i been puting some in the store room since 2-3 days back..

Any small n compact ones to intro? Thanks.. i dun need alot.. maybe 9-12 bottles those kind.

Thanks!

 

[AWholeNewWorld]

@Beta_Tester
Maybe you can try those at Ikea.
go take a look.