New 10Gbps/5Gbps/6Gbps/3Gbps XGS-PON based plans

[xiaofan]

Yup, I did... I tried binding 2 ports and later all ports but still the same...

Try bridging only one port?

 

[Ixnay]

Try bridging only one port?

Just did 1 port, same... haiz... damn sianz liao... haha

 

[Ixnay]

I just tried connecting to my Fortigate, also no IP... IPv6 also enabled...

Link status is up but DHCP failed...

 

[Henry Ng]

I just tried connecting to my Fortigate, also no IP... IPv6 also enabled...

Link status is up but DHCP failed...

Then no choice now.

 

[Phen8210]

@xiaofan @Mach3.2

By the way, do they provide the same ONT models as those in their 1Gbps plan?

I think people who consider 10Gbps might not be simply due to watching Netflix, Disney, or Prime TV at the same time. They can do that with a 1Gbps plan without issues.

I am unsure if there will be any hardware limitations because the ONT is not something we can replace or ask for an upgrade. It's not just about supporting the speed, but can it handle higher PPS?

Suppose someone is getting a 10Gbps with a mix of casual and somewhat real use cases like hosting server applications (non-mission-critical). In that case, I think it's safe to say that there will be higher PPS usage compared to the typical household/person usage.

Also, from this thread, it seems like most ISPs are giving out ONR instead of ONT, which means we can't use our own router.

What exactly is their target audience here? Is their target audience simply speedtest.com addicts, or am I missing something here?

 

[Mach3.2]

By the way, do they provide the same ONT models as those in their 1Gbps plan?

1Gbps is on GPON, 10Gbps is using XGS-PON. Both can coexist on the same optical distribution network, but requires different gear because both operate on different wavelengths.

am I missing something here?

Part of the reason they are doing it is probably because of the gahmen's 10Gbps masterplan.

Moving to higher speed plans actually allow them to oversubscribe their backhual by a lot because as you pointed out, the baseline usage of normal residential homes are actually very low.

most ISPs are giving out ONR instead of ONT, which means we can't use our own router.

I think it's business driven; everyone have same config = easier to support.

What exactly is their target audience here?

your guess is as good as mine

 

[xiaofan]

Also, from this thread, it seems like most ISPs are giving out ONR instead of ONT, which means we can't use our own router.

What exactly is their target audience here? Is their target audience simply speedtest.com addicts, or am I missing something here?

At least MR is using ONT.

For Starhub, the main audiences are for those who want a lot of contents. For them, 10Gbps bundle plan is actually cheaper than 1Gbps bundle plan. Then apparently you can bridge the Starhub Nokia ONR.

For Singtel 10Gbps plan, the audience is actually quite wide -- other than the power users who do not like ONR (1% of users, or at most 5% of the users).

Singtel is always good at marketing nearly-useless plans like 2Gbps. Now with the more powerful TP-Link HB810 WiFi 7 router (running in AP mode), I think they will be quite successful in convining quite some customers to upgrade.

1) 10Gps is always better than 1Gbps or 2Gbps.
2) Your WiFi no good -- no problem, get our mesh solution -- now we can offer WiFi 7 mesh (first HB810 is free, second one is also discounted)

 

[Wataru]

@xiaofan @Mach3.2

Also, from this thread, it seems like most ISPs are giving out ONR instead of ONT, which means we can't use our own router.

What exactly is their target audience here? Is their target audience simply speedtest.com addicts, or am I missing something here?

ONR makes things much easier for the ISP in terms of support.

An ONR which combines both the modem and routing/DHCP function is alot easier for them to troubleshoot and resolve remotely, as most problems are caused by issue with routing, DHCP and DNS. They can always reboot/restart the whole device remotely as well

An ONT + 3rd party router setup is much more difficult to resolve without an onsite visit, as some of these issues can be caused by the 3rd party router which their tech support may not be familiar with (especially if its a brand not well known to them)

 

[Henry Ng]

@xiaofan @Mach3.2

By the way, do they provide the same ONT models as those in their 1Gbps plan?

I think people who consider 10Gbps might not be simply due to watching Netflix, Disney, or Prime TV at the same time. They can do that with a 1Gbps plan without issues.

I am unsure if there will be any hardware limitations because the ONT is not something we can replace or ask for an upgrade. It's not just about supporting the speed, but can it handle higher PPS?

Suppose someone is getting a 10Gbps with a mix of casual and somewhat real use cases like hosting server applications (non-mission-critical). In that case, I think it's safe to say that there will be higher PPS usage compared to the typical household/person usage.

Also, from this thread, it seems like most ISPs are giving out ONR instead of ONT, which means we can't use our own router.

What exactly is their target audience here? Is their target audience simply speedtest.com addicts, or am I missing something here?

In general, it can support all of the things a home user needed. Not a problem at all. Can use own router on bridge mode. Cheaper for 10Gbps Homehub+ so we signed. Also faster wifi speed. I think Soon MR will follow the rest la.

 

[Henry Ng]

ONR makes things much easier for the ISP in terms of support.

An ONR which combines both the modem and routing/DHCP function is alot easier for them to troubleshoot and resolve remotely, as most problems are caused by issue with routing, DHCP and DNS. They can always reboot/restart the whole device remotely as well

An ONT + 3rd party router setup is much more difficult to resolve without an onsite visit, as some of these issues can be caused by the 3rd party router which their tech support may not be familiar with (especially if its a brand not well known to them)

That is right.

 

[Henry Ng]

At least MR is using ONT.

For Starhub, the main audiences are for those who want a lot of contents. For them, 10Gbps bundle plan is actually cheaper than 1Gbps bundle plan. Then apparently you can bridge the Starhub Nokia ONR.

For Singtel 10Gbps plan, the audience is actually quite wide -- other than the power users who do not like ONR (1% of users, or at most 5% of the users).

Singtel is always good at marketing nearly-useless plans like 2Gbps. Now with the more powerful TP-Link HB810 WiFi 7 router (running in AP mode), I think they will be quite successful in convining quite some customers to upgrade.

1) 10Gps is always better than 1Gbps or 2Gbps.
2) Your WiFi no good -- no problem, get our mesh solution -- now we can offer WiFi 7 mesh (first HB810 is free, second one is also discounted)

I think Starhub 10Gbps homehub is better deal as Wifi 7 is not commonly available in consumer laptop and usually wifi 6 only. Wifi 6 can give us 1.5Gbps on my laptop which is good.

 

[Phen8210]

1Gbps is on GPON, 10Gbps is using XGS-PON. Both can coexist on the same optical distribution network, but requires different gear because both operate on different wavelengths.

Part of the reason they are doing it is probably because of the gahmen's 10Gbps masterplan.

Moving to higher speed plans actually allow them to oversubscribe their backhual by a lot because as you pointed out, the baseline usage of normal residential homes are actually very low.

I think it's business driven; everyone have same config = easier to support.

your guess is as good as mine

At least MR is using ONT.

For Starhub, the main audiences are for those who want a lot of contents. For them, 10Gbps bundle plan is actually cheaper than 1Gbps bundle plan. Then apparently you can bridge the Starhub Nokia ONR.

For Singtel 10Gbps plan, the audience is actually quite wide -- other than the power users who do not like ONR (1% of users, or at most 5% of the users).

Singtel is always good at marketing nearly-useless plans like 2Gbps. Now with the more powerful TP-Link HB810 WiFi 7 router (running in AP mode), I think they will be quite successful in convining quite some customers to upgrade.

1) 10Gps is always better than 1Gbps or 2Gbps.
2) Your WiFi no good -- no problem, get our mesh solution -- now we can offer WiFi 7 mesh (first HB810 is free, second one is also discounted)

damm.. that sucks..i guess they only want the normies to subscribe lol

 

[Henry Ng]

damm.. that sucks..i guess they only want the normies to subscribe lol

Do not forget it is a home user plan.

 

[Phen8210]

Do not forget it is a home user plan.

alright alright chill, 10Gbps is the best for home use ok, Better. Broader. Stronger. Enjoy ultra smooth streaming with HomeHub+ UltraSpeed that includes the fastest 10Gbps Broadband and unlimited entertainment from Premier League, Netflix Premium, Disney+, Amazon Prime and more!

 

[Henry Ng]

alright alright chill, 10Gbps is the best for home use ok, Better. Broader. Stronger. Enjoy ultra smooth streaming with HomeHub+ UltraSpeed that includes the fastest 10Gbps Broadband and unlimited entertainment from Premier League, Netflix Premium, Disney+, Amazon Prime and more!

Honestly i have no problem using this plan. For work or business then should use business plan. My company using M1 for business plan. Some may use their home internet for business use but it is all up to the user.

 

[GlassDoor]

current VQ plan with fixed ip expiring soon.
been with them since the very start and it has been relatively problem free for me as I run my own dns forwarder and only depend on it for pure ip connectivity.

very tempted with MR 10G with static ip addon due to price and also home infra is due for major overhaul as some existing equipment are EOL and no longer has support(firmware) and are more than 10 years or approaching 10 years cycle.

In the last 10 years, i have transited through most of the popular routing vendors except mikrotik
Edgerouter Lite --> Netgate (pfsense) --> Sophos UTM --> Edgerouter 4

Considerations for new setup (either all-in-one router/switch or router + switch)
1) prefer fanless if possible
2) No software based router
3) prefer router to be just router and connect a switch for switching/Vlans (aio also ok if it offers additional benefits)

Based on the above, I am leaning on mikrotik
CCR2004-16G-2S+PC and CRS310-8G+2S+IN

1) CCR only the 2S+ will be used (one to ONT, one to switch) 16G wasted
2) CRS only two S+ ports. One will be used to uplink to CCR so only one free. Prefer more S+ ports.
3) CCR is fanless but CRS has fans so LPPL

Also for the CRS switch:
https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/disp...wareOffloading-OffloadingFasttrackConnections
Under L3HW Device support section.
"The devices below are based on Marvell 98DX224S, 98DX226S, or 98DX3236 switch chip models. These devices do not support Fasttrack or NAT connection offloading."

Isn't Fasttrack and NAT connection offloading done on the CCR router?
So am I missing out on any HW offload features/optimisation by choosing the above combo.

I have also considered:
1) CCR2216-1G-12XS-2XQ - AIO but overkill for my setup
2) Edgerouter XG - concerned about long term support since cavium has been sold to marvel and UBNT has very limited updates/commitment to the Edgerouter product line.

Looking to mikrotik users and gurus for advise.

 

[Outramkia]

@xiaofan @Mach3.2

By the way, do they provide the same ONT models as those in their 1Gbps plan?

I think people who consider 10Gbps might not be simply due to watching Netflix, Disney, or Prime TV at the same time. They can do that with a 1Gbps plan without issues.

I am unsure if there will be any hardware limitations because the ONT is not something we can replace or ask for an upgrade. It's not just about supporting the speed, but can it handle higher PPS?

Suppose someone is getting a 10Gbps with a mix of casual and somewhat real use cases like hosting server applications (non-mission-critical). In that case, I think it's safe to say that there will be higher PPS usage compared to the typical household/person usage.

Also, from this thread, it seems like most ISPs are giving out ONR instead of ONT, which means we can't use our own router.

What exactly is their target audience here? Is their target audience simply speedtest.com addicts, or am I missing something here?

Frankly I would be ok if they bundled the contents for 1gb plan. The price of epl, netflix and disney already 2/3 of the $88.77 promo price. It's like getting 10gbps for free

 

[yongde01]

Just to check, has anyone install starhub 10gbps wait for 10 mins only, then the line go down for 1 week without starhub not able to find any resolution ? I have been without internet for 1 week since the installer come down to install 10gbps. No IP address obtained for the Nokia onr.

 

[TanKianW]

Not a guru, also learning MikroTik along the way while I am deploying them.

For your question:
​

Isn't Fasttrack and NAT connection offloading done on the CCR router?
​

Nope. Done on your CRS (or switch chip on CCR). Suggest you read up more on the MikroTik help page or their forum on this FT/NAT HW offload feature. Think you will get more help and guidance there.

Take note that the CCR2004's 2x SFP+ is only for up/down link connections, it does not use the "switch chip". If you want uncompromised performance. you should go with a higher range of CCR. Before you purchase a CCR/CRS, always check through the "block diagram" especially if you looking for some form of HW offload features.

​

So am I missing out on any HW offload features/optimisation by choosing the above combo.
​

I will think not much of missing out for typical home use cases.

Even if your switch (chip) can do FT/NAT HW offload (to reach near wire speed), with its limited no. of connections, you will still need to fine-tune it. Stated here:

"Since Fasttrack HW Offloading offers near-the-wire-speed performance at zero configuration overhead, the users are tempted to use it as the default solution. However, the number of HW Fasttrack connections is very limited, leaving the other traffic for the CPU. Try using the hardware routing as much as possible, reduce the CPU traffic to the minimum via switch ACL rules, and then fine-tune which Fasttrack connections to offload with firewall filter rules."​

 

[GuybrushThreepwood]

I have also considered:
1) CCR2216-1G-12XS-2XQ - AIO but overkill for my setup
2) Edgerouter XG - concerned about long term support since cavium has been sold to marvel and UBNT has very limited updates/commitment to the Edgerouter product line.

Looking to mikrotik users and gurus for advise.

I used to like Edgerouter Lite due to its EdgeOS being licensed from Vyatta. Now for my StarHub 10G in bridge mode, I'm using VyOS 1.4 rolling with the Dell Edge 640 I bought recently. The 640 has 2 x 10G SFP+ ports with 6 x 1G copper ports.

I also run 2 units of the 640 as proxmox hosts, very efficient with C3758 8-core and 32GB RAM. I may put the remaining 2 units up at Carousell soon.