Just curious miw say pro family but why...

[IAmChiobu12M]

Greatest magician in the world, too late to stop them.

Everyone kpkb also no use

Got use. But 70% loves it this way.

 

[IAmChiobu12M]

Have you tried to appeal via your MP on this?

Much more you're jobless now, so grant should be more.

But be careful if this might affect your HDB loan amount.

No amount of appeal will work. They will keep say this is in line with current guidelines and this is final. Everyone I know say the grant and loan just don't make sense. So many suffer with low or no grant while loan still damn low.

 

[fly1111]

MIW say pro family want young people come together faster form a family buy house etc.

But realities don't seem to tally with so called policies?

1. Hdb bto forever oversubscribed, getting a q number is like playing lottery. Is all about luck.

2. Even bto is getting very expensive and pls don't bs me say a lot grant. Most people can't even qualify the grant amount of what hdb infographics like to paint it.

Price of resale is even more crazy.

And loan they also damn prudent use MSR capped at 30% income. No reassessment also the HFE. During ballot and key collection, the income sure change leh. 6 months before key collection they will check. If income up, loan amount no up. If income drop, loan amount drop.

The way they determine income for grant and loan also different, very double standard.

For grant, if A work 1 month 5k, jobless 11 months. B earn 3k work every month for 12 months. They will still take it gross income is 8k. And say you only qualify based on 8k tier grant which is very little.

But suddenly come to loan calculation, they will only consider B 3k income and ignore A 5k caz only 1 month.

Then for grant, they will consider anything in your payslip as income like allowances, stipends, commission etc. But for loan, suddenly only basic salary is used to determine loan amount.

3. Why as first time hdb buyer SC couples need to pay for buyer stamp duty? Not cheap you know. If is 2nd time buyer or private ok la. First time bto also need pay. This additional money could have use it for the down payment already. What is there to tax??? Also not for profit but for residential use. If you say sell need pay SSD still reasonable lol.

Can only blame sinkie high daft society.
Trust politician who has track record of lying, gas lighting and out of touch with reality

 

[Heriophant]

My colleaugeue recently got good # for SBF.... But need wait 10months to collect key..

She dulan.. Now buying resale.

 

[gilcrest]

don’t get con

Right, its signing your debt warrant for life and be a less liabilities politically. Its a proven method since 65

 

[IAmChiobu12M]

My colleaugeue recently got good # for SBF.... But need wait 10months to collect key..

She dulan.. Now buying resale.

10 mths still dulan really damn entitled. So many have to wait 5 years for bto with bad q number within supply list. She still complain haiya. People who truly want something don't get, while people who get something good don't realised.

 

[itedino]

Have you tried to appeal via your MP on this?

Much more you're jobless now, so grant should be more.

But be careful if this might affect your HDB loan amount.

Jobless they wun allow u to buy house or bto

 

[Heriophant]

10 mths still dulan really damn entitled. So many have to wait 5 years for bto with bad q number within supply list. She still complain haiya. People who truly want something don't get, while people who get something good don't realised.

Moi not HDB expert but she said....the SBF price and resale price (1994 flat) almost similar so she dont mind paying abit more to move in ASAP...She want to start family soon

 

[Ec7171]

Once again, you show that you can't read or can't be bothered to. Like me break it down into something simpler for you to digest. I'm saying that MIW is more pro-population growth and that pro-family is just one way to achieve said goal. In order words, they don't really care about "pro-family", it's just a means to an end (to increase population). Their preference is still to take in newcomers. That's why we will never see any meaningful change when it comes to "pro-family".

On the other hand, we peasants view having a family in a much more nuanced and emotional manner. Something which technocrats like the MIW find hard to grasp, hence the disconnect as exemplified by inane comments such as our favourite "small space" from Jo Teo.

And no, I did not say that migration is a "new" thing for sg. On the contrary, I'm saying the opposite. Migration has been their main thrust (sidelining pro-family in the process) for population growth and will continue to be so. Pro-family is actually the "new" thing for sg, one that we are lagging behind our western peers.

If only you would put as much effort into actually reading and understanding my post as you do putting words in my mouth.

When you want to compare pro-family , you use individual v family.
How could you use pro-family and pro-population policies to compare?

pro-family polices involves having good jobs to sustain living, affordable housing to build a home , medical care for aging and quality education for children for ppl to consider building a home in Singapore aka marriage.

When you want to compare pro-population growth , you use pronatalism or net immigration.
Pro-population growth policies is about immigration rules ,incentives for every new born etc.

I guess you are advocating pronatalism rather than pro-family in this case. My guess is that migration has increase more than in 1950s to a level that you are not comfortable with but that does not means that the policy is not pro-family.

 

[chiefoggy]

pro elite, smart and rich family kym?

 

[Ec7171]

Glad that at least one person understand what I'm trying to say. Yet many kumgong sinkie say we have low tax. Ya low direct tax but so many indirect tax and cost and welfare? Almost minute.

I believe Singapore has low tax for citizen as compared to advanced countries whether indirect or direct.

Name me 3 advanced countries for me to compare with.

 

[Sen Sen]

Rich ppl no issues

 

[N4E.SI]

Luckily I bought ard 8yrs+ ago before this crazy surge in property prices

Over the past years, I've been collecting rentals as passive income while living with my parents.

Now my property appreciation close to 100% aldy. Haven't include the rental which I collected over the years.

Must plan ahead otherwise stuck in an endless rat race in SG

 

[helloicanseeu]

True……
those bto is getting more and more drifting far away from any couples.
Unless couples all graduate from phd, rich family.

not happy, go lie flat and protest loh

 

[xdivider]

MIW say pro family want young Singaporeans come together faster form a family buy house etc.

But realities don't seem to tally with so called policies?

1. Hdb bto forever oversubscribed, getting a q number is like playing lottery. Is all about luck.

2. Even bto is getting very expensive and pls don't bs me say a lot grant. Most people can't even qualify the grant amount of what hdb infographics like to paint it.

Price of resale is even more crazy.

And loan they also damn prudent use MSR capped at 30% income. No reassessment also the HFE. During ballot and key collection, the income sure change leh. 6 months before key collection they will check. If income up, loan amount no up. If income drop, loan amount drop.

The way they determine income for grant and loan also different, very double standard.

For grant, if A work 1 month 5k, jobless 11 months. B earn 3k work every month for 12 months. They will still take it gross income is 8k. And say you only qualify based on 8k tier grant which is very little.

But suddenly come to loan calculation, they will only consider B 3k income and ignore A 5k caz only 1 month.

Then for grant, they will consider anything in your payslip as income like allowances, stipends, commission etc. But for loan, suddenly only basic salary is used to determine loan amount.

3. Why as first time hdb buyer SC (pure local) couples need to pay for buyer stamp duty? Not cheap you know. If is 2nd time buyer or private ok la. First time bto also need pay. This additional money could have use it for the down payment already. What is there to tax??? Also not for profit but for residential use. If you say sell need pay SSD still reasonable lol.

I've only mentioned 3 points, and none is from true welfare pov or heart for us pure born and bred local citizens. Miw just want pure local become rare Pokemon at this rate is it?

Pro immigrant and rich pple. Cos directly contribute....

 

[uselessbum]

When you want to compare pro-family , you use individual v family.
How could you use pro-family and pro-population policies to compare?

pro-family polices involves having good jobs to sustain living, affordable housing to build a home , medical care for aging and quality education for children for ppl to consider building a home in Singapore aka marriage.

When you want to compare pro-population growth , you use pronatalism or net immigration.
Pro-population growth policies is about immigration rules ,incentives for every new born etc.

I guess you are advocating pronatalism rather than pro-family in this case. My guess is that migration has increase more than in 1950s to a level that you are not comfortable with but that does not means that the policy is not pro-family.

Once again, you show that you have a poor understanding of what people are trying to say,

I'm saying that the two are not mutually exclusive. If the goal is to increase population, having pro-family policies is one way of doing that. Question is whether that is the MAIN way that the country wants to increase its population. I'm saying that in sg's case, that's not the gahmen's main or even desired way of increasing the population. Since it's not the main focus, there wouldn't be any meaningful/impactful changes when it comes to "pro-family".

Those things you mentioned (jobs, medical care, housing) are not "pro-family". Those are things that are important to the individual regardless of whether sinkies plan on getting married and having children. While they may indirectly affect the willingness to form families, that's not the main intention of those things. Your logic would be like saying that the gahmen build roads and mrt to encourage people to build families or that singles don't need good jobs/affordable housing/medical care. Even if one day all sinkies suddenly decide to stop getting married and having children, we still need those things.

"Pro-family" refers to policies that are SPECIFICALLY designed to encourage family formation. One example is baby bonus. I'm saying that we are very lacking in policies that are specifically for encouraging family formation. To give a further example, the hungarian govt has made family formation a national priority by introducing a scheme that allows newlywed couples to get interest free loans of up to 28k USD. And if they have children within a certain period of time, that loan is forgiven (ie no need pay back)

Pro-natalism and pro-family are not mutually exclusive. Rather, the former is a subset of the other. After all, you need to get married if you want the child to not be considered illegitmate and to be able to enjoy benefits of pronatalism policies. The example I gave about Hungary being a case in point.

Even your favourite PAP considers "pro-natalism" measures (eg baby bonus) as under "pro-family":

https://www.pap.org.sg/news/pro-family-measures-to-support-young-families/

In fact, all the things in that list save for one are considered "pro-natalism" and not "pro-family" according to you. Want to argue about that, then go argue with your PAP first.

Please don't bother replying if you cannot read or understanding what I'm writing. You are just wasting my time by shifting from one point to another just like you did in another topic.

 

[xdivider]

Luckily I bought ard 8yrs+ ago before this crazy surge in property prices

Over the past years, I've been collecting rentals as passive income while living with my parents.

Now my property appreciation close to 100% aldy. Haven't include the rental which I collected over the years.

Must plan ahead otherwise stuck in an endless rat race in SG

Esp if u get suckered by the get married cheerleaders....

 

[IAmChiobu12M]

Once again, you show that you have a poor understanding of what people are trying to say,

I'm saying that the two are not mutually exclusive. If the goal is to increase population, having pro-family policies is one way of doing that. Question is whether that is the MAIN way that the country wants to increase its population. I'm saying that in sg's case, that's not the gahmen's main or even desired way of increasing the population. Since it's not the main focus, there wouldn't be any meaningful changes when it comes to "pro-family".

Those things you mentioned (jobs, medical care, housing, education) are not "pro-family". Those are things that are important to the individual regardless of whether sinkies plan on getting married and having children. While they may indirectly affect the willingness to form families, that's not the main intention of those things. Your logic would be like saying that the gahmen build roads and mrt to encourage people to build families or that singles don't need good jobs/affordable housing/medical care/education. Even if one day all sinkies suddenly decide to stop getting married and having children, we still need those things.

"Pro-family" refers to policies that are SPECIFICALLY designed to encourage family formation. One example is baby bonus. I'm saying that we are very lacking in policies that are specifically for encouraging family formation. To give a further example, the hungarian govt has made family formation a national priority by introducing a scheme that allows newlywed couples to get interest free loans of up to 28k USD. And if they have children within a certain period of time, that loan is forgiven (ie no need pay back)

Pronatalism and pro-family are not mutually exclusive. Rather, the former is a subset of the other. After all, you need to get married if you want the child to not be considered illegitmate and to be able to enjoy benefits of pronatalism policies.

Please don't bother replying if you cannot read or understanding what I'm writing. You are just wasting my time by shifting from one point to another just like you did in another topic.

Well said!

 

[Ec7171]

I'm saying that the two are not mutually exclusive. If the goal is to increase population, having pro-family policies is one way of doing that. Question is whether that is the MAIN way that the country wants to increase its population. I'm saying that in sg's case, that's not the gahmen's main or even desired way of increasing the population. Since it's not the main focus, there wouldn't be any meaningful changes when it comes to "pro-family".

You assume our govt goal is to increase population which is not. Even you increase population , those coming in has families too. Thats why i said pro-family and pro-population growth cannot be compared at all.

Those things you mentioned (jobs, medical care, housing, education) are not "pro-family". Those are things that are important to the individual regardless of whether sinkies plan on getting married and having children. While they may indirectly affect the willingness to form families, that's not the main intention of those things. Your logic would be like saying that the gahmen build roads and mrt to encourage people to build families or that singles don't need good jobs/affordable housing/medical care/education. Even if one day all sinkies suddenly decide to stop getting married and having children, we still need those things.

Sure. I think you take it for granted that govt is providing those for individuals.

"Pro-family" refers to policies that are SPECIFICALLY designed to encourage family formation. One example is baby bonus. I'm saying that we are very lacking in policies that are specifically for encouraging family formation. To give a further example, the hungarian govt has made family formation a national priority by introducing a scheme that allows newlywed couples to get interest free loans of up to 28k USD. And if they have children within a certain period of time, that loan is forgiven (ie no need pay back)

Family formation is partly nature. You cant use policy for that.
Im not sure 28k USD is alot. Singapore baby bonus is ard 20k SGD with co-matching.

Pronatalism and pro-family are not mutually exclusive. Rather, the former is a subset of the other. After all, you need to get married if you want the child to not be considered illegitmate and to be able to enjoy benefits of pronatalism policies. The example I gave about Hungary being a case in point.

Please don't bother replying if you cannot read or understanding what I'm writing. You are just wasting my time by shifting from one point to another just like you did in another topic.

That is pro family policy taking precedence.
But today i guess the gap is not much already.

You can dont reply as you wish. No one force you to reply.

 

[uselessbum]

You assume our govt goal is to increase population which is not. Even you increase population , those coming in has families too. Thats why i said pro-family and pro-population growth cannot be compared at all.



Sure. I think you take it for granted that govt is providing those for individuals.



Family formation is partly nature. You cant use policy for that.
Im not sure 28k USD is alot. Singapore baby bonus is ard 20k SGD with co-matching.


That is pro family policy taking precedence.
But today i guess the gap is not much already.

You can dont reply as you wish. No one force you to reply.

"You assume our govt goal is to increase population which is not".

It is. Given their consistent rheotric about needing more people to support the economy along with the population white paper. It's obvious what their intention is. Only question is which method (to increase population) they focus on.

Even you increase population , those coming in has families too. Thats why i said pro-family and pro-population growth cannot be compared at all.

Non-starter. The context of my argument is based on encouraging local born to start families. You do know that the newcomers could already have kids in their original countries? Or that they come from less developed countries such that pro-family isn't as important a factor for them?

For the third time, the two are not mutually exclusive. There are different ways to grow the population. The two main ones being migration and encouraging locals to start familes (ie pro-family). My opinion is that the govt focuses on the former instead of the latter, hence our lack of (and rather late) impactful pro-family measures.

And even in terms of newcomers, it's obvious that many of them aren't having new children here or their descendants aren't having any children here given the abysmal fertility rate and despite decades of liberal naturalization policy.

"Sure. I think you take it for granted that govt is providing those for individuals."

Did I say that they are "providing those for individuals"? Again, you put words in my mouth. I'm saying that building families is not the main intention of those things you mentioned, not that they are doing it with only individuals in mind.

"Family formation is partly nature. You cant use policy for that.
Im not sure 28k USD is alot. Singapore baby bonus is ard 20k SGD with co-matching."

Do you realize that the same argument can be applied to MIW? Then what's the point of MIW trying to use policy then?

That is pro family policy taking precedence.
But today i guess the gap is not much already.

You can dont reply as you wish. No one force you to reply.

That's a distinction without a difference in the context of "pro-family". Then why you argued about the two being different if YOU ALREADY KNEW IT? Waste of time.

And how conveniently you ignored my example of how pap gave a list of "pro-natalist" (according to you) and called it "pro-family".

Hello, there's something called courtesy. On the same basis, no one forced you to give a reply if you don't understand what the person is talking about. If you want to reply to somebody, the least one can do is actually read and understand what the other person is saying and not put words into their mouth or use strawmen.