Some random facts about 三国

[yummie]

I believe Shu started to get weak after zhugeliang launched his 北伐大业，the best chance was the first one, coz they are caught by surprise. After that better consolidate and grow first. It was his wrong strategy that led his direct successor into a complete wrong direction. This eventually translated to a total surrender of 蜀.

魏延and 李严，both are capable and strong generals, not favored by zhugeliang.

Becos ZGL was a jealous man mah. In SME, can not habe too many talented ppl. Especially if ur GM is talented n jealous. But of course boss of SME want everyone to shine

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[[zhugeliang]]

u are right he's not fantastic, but he's good enuff to be branded as one of the better strategist in 3 kingdoms. by the way his writings, laws and letters did passed down to let ppl have a glimpse of how he's like. he was never an idealist and the laws and policies he laid down worked for shu.

chee is the guy who walked the ground, lived the life and understood the commoners, unlike all of the present white dogs. if chee is a bookworm the rest of the white dogs are retards.

caocao is a great strategist too, but he failed in choosing a good successor. caopi is the real bookworm and his strength ish actually in prose and literature, not so much in politics. his greatest contribution ish in chinese literature and literary criticism, not politics. much like pinky, should be a mathematician instead of a politician.

caopi died after 6 yrs on the throne, and the cao family gradually lost all powers to sima family. finally just 19yrs after caopi ascend the throne, sima took over and made his grandson a puppet.

OTOH, ZGL ran shu pretty well and able to balance all internal factions, which is something similar to caocao. he named his successor well, jiangwan and feiji contributed to 20yrs of stability for shu. this is something he did better than caocao. even when ah dou took over, ah dou was actually in power, not like caofang(caocao's great grandson), who ish just a puppet under caoshuang and sima zhao. just that ah dou ish dumb to trust the wrong ppl.

Sexpert. Like i say. He was good in politics and also logistic and economic management.

But when comes to actual on the ground war and battle management. .he might not be as sound. That is why most if not all the major.victories of liu bei army was never involved him..to be honest..weiyan might be a better war commander on actual war ground..

 

[yummie]

zhugeliang was a good politican.......

 

[blackestvoid]

jin funny thread
machiam pap vs wp
misquotes here and there using history vs story

 

[yummie]

jin funny thread
machiam pap vs wp
misquotes here and there using history vs story

wat are the misquotes? can correct the quotes then?

 

[laguna83]

He would not sacrifice Guan Yu for two reasons. Jing Zhou is a treasure land of resources. Guan Yu was still one of his mega star in PAP words general with track record. Using him there in jing zhou could help to prevent military actions from Wu and wei.

Also make no logical reason for ZGL to lend knife kill guan yu. Jingzhou is a critical part of his longzhong plan. He is a person on bigger picture. So he will not do what the people rumor he will do.

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1 good reason for zgl ish both are alpha...
without guanyu, easier for zgl...

the only unexpected ish liu bei full force chiong sun and lose ~

 

[OngHuatHuat]

BRo... Hu Lao Guan is near Luo Yang.. Never Near Chang An..
even u capture Chang An.. u have to pass thru 2 more guan and 1 major city call Luo Yang.. then u will reach hu lao guan...

U take speed train issit..straight away by pass so many major passes and city after capture Chang an?

I wrongly remembered 潼关 as 虎牢关，din Google before I type.

Regardless of whether it is 潼关or 长安，zhugeliang never make it through, he was stuck at area near 凉州for ages. ...

 

[yummie]

chee is the guy who walked the ground, lived the life and understood the commoners, unlike all of the present white dogs. if chee is a bookworm the rest of the white dogs are retards.

CSJ is like lu bu i would say, alot valour, but never walk the ground.....

 

[ponpokku]

1 good reason for zgl ish both are alpha...
without guanyu, easier for zgl...

the only unexpected ish liu bei full force chiong sun and lose ~

it could be true on the alpha part but ZGL wont sacrifice guanyu at jingzhou. becos losing jingzhou is a big loss to his own plans.

if given another place another time he might, becos ZGL ish not known for being petty towards other officials, he just 'might'. but with guanyu at jingzhou it wouldnt be his scheming.

the recorded facts about guanyu's death is pretty straight forward, he sneak attacked wu's food supply after he captured yujing and wei's ~30000 troops, and that caused wu to hit back on him. all these were not ZGL's plans.

 

[ponpokku]

CSJ is like lu bu i would say, alot valour, but never walk the ground.....

plain ranjiao weh liao. u wanna make a correlation at least make one that doesnt make u look total ignorant.

 

[OngHuatHuat]

BRo... Hu Lao Guan is near Luo Yang.. Never Near Chang An..
even u capture Chang An.. u have to pass thru 2 more guan and 1 major city call Luo Yang.. then u will reach hu lao guan...

U take speed train issit..straight away by pass so many major passes and city after capture Chang an?

Wrongly remembered 潼关as 虎牢关。

But what i said still applicable, 诸葛亮stuck at 凉州for ages.

 

[yummie]

plain ranjiao weh liao. u wanna make a correlation at least make one that doesnt make u look total ignorant.

oh, now resorting to name callings, yeah? u also talking bullshiat by saying chee walked the ground....u also another ignorant person who says chee walked the round.

talk politely u also cannot, talk rudely to u also cannot....

 

[sesami]

aiyo relak bros.

 

[GundamG]

bookmarked. Think ZGL still respected by many during that time for his good deeds.

 

[ponpokku]

Sexpert. Like i say. He was good in politics and also logistic and economic management.

But when comes to actual on the ground war and battle management. .he might not be as sound. That is why most if not all the major.victories of liu bei army was never involved him..to be honest..weiyan might be a better war commander on actual war ground..

ZGL rank was junshi or strategic planning, he was never a commander at the frontline. u urself made a strawman and start shooting at urself. geliang ah geliang, why shoot ur own reputation?

if he's not good at battle management, the battle formations he invented wont be a major part of chinese military studies.

read up more on him lah.

 

[yummie]

ZGL rank was junshi or strategic planning, he was never a commander at the frontline. u urself made a strawman and start shooting at urself. geliang ah geliang, why shoot ur own reputation?

if he's not good at battle management, the battle formations he invented wont be a major part of chinese military studies.

read up more on him lah.

why don't u provide ur readings and sources here?

 

[ponpokku]

Wrongly remembered 潼关as 虎牢关。

But what i said still applicable, 诸葛亮stuck at 凉州for ages.

thats becos he's aware of his strengths and weakness.

chang'an plan ish not possible at that time, or in another perspective, too risky.

the distance is about 400km and it requires them, according to their sneak attack plans, to reach within 10days so not to alarm the enemy.

thats 40km a day thru difficult terrain. they wont be able to fight when they reach as planned. too exhausted. weiyan's plan was counting on wei commander being timid and will retreat in the face of shu army. that is a very bold bet. if wei put up some form of resistance the shu army's gonna game over. besides, weiyan only brought 5000-10000 with him. even if wei army disgard chang'an and run road, weiyan cant defend against the comeback attack from wei army.

this is the same reason why wei didnt attempt to hit shu from the same path. the risk is the same for both sides. bring small troop thru a dark tunnel and dunno whats waiting at the other side.

ZGL's plan on taking liangzhou ish becos it can provide a buffer without wei directly choking the exit point of shu. and it has relatively fertile flatland for food. but losing at jieting, the chokepoint to tianshui/liangzhou, caused his plans to fail.

ZGL's plan is a less risky huan, it also disturbed wei army and prevent them from concentrating at hanzhong. look at the map:

ZGL planned to take down liangzhou, northwest of hanzhong. even if he failed, the campaign will force wei troops at yongzhou (aka shangyong) to be busy defending, becos liangzhou defense ish weak and shangyong had to defend 2 sides.

during the time of jiangwei, jiangwei gradually gave up northwest of hanzhong but concentrated on northeast of hanzhong, directly attacking yongzhou, althou he did scored a couple of successes against liangzhou, he cannot sustain a foothold. towards the last yrs of shu, jiangwei was worried about huanghao sabotaging him in court, and concentrated his forces at eastside of hanzhong, the opposite of ZGL's plan. that gave wei army ample time to encircle hanzhong from both northwest and northeast, and shu fell in 3mths after wei army launched their massive attack.

 

[sleepyhealer]

There was a saying that after the brothers death and the loss of jingzhou. ZGL didn't want to fight the Wei for he knew that it will be unfruitful but he was pressurised by the old guards of Liu bei who wanted to restore Han dynasty.

So he suck thumb and go. His original plan is to take a bit of land each time and that's it. He never intended to occupy Chang An or anything.

Wei Yan smart alec keep want to occupy Chang An.

ZGL know if Wei Yan would do what he want to do after his death and risk the kingdom of shu so order Ma liang to kill him.

This also help Sima Yi who know his intention hence Sima not reactive when the Shu comes because he know ZGL will not go far one

Of course this is a Tiagong only

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[Your Master]

Liu bei run until jing zhou then later defeat weak enemy liu zhang already old liao people pity him let him proclaim himself emperor with just that little bit of land.Becoming emperor in yi zhou is like consolation prize for him.

Sun ce attacking jiang dong is like easy way out,in the long run it became why wu cannot unite china.It's like he chose to be general manager of small company instead of manager in big company.

 

[OngHuatHuat]

thats becos he's aware of his strengths and weakness.

chang'an plan ish not possible at that time, or in another perspective, too risky.

the distance is about 400km and it requires them, according to their sneak attack plans, to reach within 10days so not to alarm the enemy.

thats 40km a day thru difficult terrain. they wont be able to fight when they reach as planned. too exhausted. weiyan's plan was counting on wei commander being timid and will retreat in the face of shu army. that is a very bold bet. if wei put up some form of resistance the shu army's gonna game over. besides, weiyan only brought 5000-10000 with him. even if wei army disgard chang'an and run road, weiyan cant defend against the comeback attack from wei army.

this is the same reason why wei didnt attempt to hit shu from the same path. the risk is the same for both sides. bring small troop thru a dark tunnel and dunno whats waiting at the other side.

ZGL's plan on taking liangzhou ish becos it can provide a buffer without wei directly choking the exit point of shu. and it has relatively fertile flatland for food. but losing at jieting, the chokepoint to tianshui/liangzhou, caused his plans to fail.

ZGL's plan is a less risky huan, it also disturbed wei army and prevent them from concentrating at hanzhong. look at the map:

ZGL planned to take down liangzhou, northwest of hanzhong. even if he failed, the campaign will force wei troops at yongzhou (aka shangyong) to be busy defending, becos liangzhou defense ish weak and shangyong had to defend 2 sides.

during the time of jiangwei, jiangwei gradually gave up northwest of hanzhong but concentrated on northeast of hanzhong, directly attacking yongzhou, althou he did scored a couple of successes against liangzhou, he cannot sustain a foothold. towards the last yrs of shu, jiangwei was worried about huanghao sabotaging him in court, and concentrated his forces at eastside of hanzhong, the opposite of ZGL's plan. that gave wei army ample time to encircle hanzhong from both northwest and northeast, and shu fell in 3mths after wei army launched their massive attack.

You should quote yummie but not me.
I din support Wei Yan plan either, coz even if he succeed, Shu army cannot withstand waves of reinforcements from Wei on plain land.

Without jingzhou, his plan is definitely fail. He should have some patience and wait for 魏to go down.