2023 Banking Crisis

lzydata

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konan~

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Look like the market jubilant after the Fed announcement is short-lived and can't last till the morning.
 

starbugs

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The collapse of SVB is just the collateral damage from the Fed's steep rate hikes. The Fed boomers are still living in the 70s. Yes, raising interest rates to fight inflation works but it's a blunt sledgehammer move and it smashes everything in its path. SVB wasn't even making irresponsible bets and its main bad move was to invest in US treasuries.
 

final1

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The collapse of SVB is just the collateral damage from the Fed's steep rate hikes. The Fed boomers are still living in the 70s. Yes, raising interest rates to fight inflation works but it's a blunt sledgehammer move and it smashes everything in its path. SVB wasn't even making irresponsible bets and its main bad move was to invest in US treasuries.
1. You are correct. From one perspective, one might even say the cause of this collapse was the Fed itself (for having increased interest rates so much). If you have seen my posts from much much much earlier on, I had questioned the logic of central bankers for deciding to increase interest rates to fight inflation that does not appear to stem from sources that have much to do with interest rates at all. Something had to break sooner or later. So, I really have to shake my head at disapproval at the US, particularly. SVB, Signature bank are garnering headlines. But, there was recently FTX and silvergate collapsing as well. Does it portend bigger things to come?

2. From another perspective (which is also correct), I can also say that SVB is itself to blame for investing in long-dated US treasuries amid an increasing interest rate environment. Actually, they really only wanted to raise US$2 billion (for losing money on US treasuries no less) and that was what got the ball rolling. US$2 billion should honestly be a relatively small sum to a bank of their size. But, it caused this entire mess.

3. Judging by the pre-market reaction tonight, it seems the markets somewhat share my view that the combined action by the Fed, treasury and the FDIC might not be enough. But, we shall see. It looks like First Republic Bank or Credit Suisse could be in trouble now? I hope not. Or, are we in for the next great financial crisis (we are way overdue anyway and i won't be surprised if it happens)?

4. I am happy for depositors at SVB and signature bank as their full deposits have been protected. But, question. If you were going to do that anyway, you should just make FDIC insurance up to unlimited amount of deposits from the beginning. Another way to put it, if individuals/companies were aware the insurance is up to US$250k only BUT they still decided to put in more than that. Why should their money above US$250k be saved? They have already understood that that amount of money is not insured. They should lose it. That's how its supposed to work, right? No doubt it was just cash deposits, but these individuals/companies were probably risk-taking in the sense that SVB was offering higher interest rates than bigger banks like JPM, BOA etc. Similarly for stocks, if i take risk, if i lose, i lose. It should be the same here? No?
 
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tangent314

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FDIC guaranteed the full deposits in these cases because the banks are still fully solvent so it costs them basically nothing to guarantee the full deposits.
 

BBCWatcher

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...But, there was recently FTX and silvergate collapsing as well.
FTX was a cryptocurrency exchange. Some of its officers have admitted to crimes, and others are charged with crimes. I think that one is quite different.

Silvergate is pretty small. Technically it didn't fail (no FDIC takeover), but it's voluntarily liquidating. They return depositors' money and close up shop.
3. Judging by the pre-market reaction tonight, it seems the markets somewhat share my view that the combined action by the Fed, treasury and the FDIC might not be enough. But, we shall see. It looks like First Republic Bank or Credit Suisse could be in trouble now?
First Republic Bank struck a deal with JP Morgan Chase for support (and possible future, larger deal?) FRB also has access to the new Federal Reserve/FDIC/Treasury liquidity facility. There's no shortage of liquidity there. Also, FRB doesn't seem to have the large and skittish depositors SVB and Signature Bank had.

I'm still coming up to speed on Credit Suisse, but obviously Swiss banks will be primarily up to the Swiss to regulate and supervise.
 

BBCWatcher

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FDIC guaranteed the full deposits in these cases because the banks are still fully solvent so it costs them basically nothing to guarantee the full deposits.
And in the most unlikely event SVB's and Signature Bank's assets (unwound over the next few years) don't cover deposits the deal includes FDIC levies on the banking industry.
 

yiron

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The collapse of SVB is just the collateral damage from the Fed's steep rate hikes. The Fed boomers are still living in the 70s. Yes, raising interest rates to fight inflation works but it's a blunt sledgehammer move and it smashes everything in its path. SVB wasn't even making irresponsible bets and its main bad move was to invest in US treasuries.
But isn't duration management part of banking 101?
 

BBCWatcher

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If someone could change this thread's title to:

2023 Bank Failures

I think that'd make a lot of sense. SVB isn't closed, although it did fail. It's been acquired by the FDIC and is now open for business this morning. Same with Signature Bank. Silvergate, SVB, and Signature Bank are 3 banks, so "Failures" (plural) makes sense.
 
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henrylbh

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would SCB be considered an Asian Bank?
SCB is considered a UK bank. But its biggest shareholder is Temasek Holdings :LOL:

SCB ranks 46 of 100 biggest banks in term to total assets. DBS ranks 69.
 

henrylbh

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shutting down a bank is costly. The FDIC/Fed/whatever does not just shut down the bank simply because of liquidity issue. If the bank is well-run, with good capital ratio and liquidity, the Fed would rather do repo and lending, than taking over the bank. After all, they don't know how to run a bank successfully.

42 billion is a lot, but the money does not just leave the system. It is just on the book. If the bank is worth of it, others can easily pick it up. Also, 42 billion happened after the bank wanted a 2+ billion capital injection. That's the reason why it failed, not the 42 billion after that.

The bank had a short of capital of 2+ billion. Unless someone was willing to give it 2+ billion, it would have failed anyway. 42 billion just made fail faster, fail early.
If all depositors want to withdraw money, even pump 100b is not enough.
 

henrylbh

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Great buying opportunity!
Buy which banks. Not beaten down enough :p But still worth buying local banks as yield is above 4% if held long term.

I bought OCBC 12.80. It went down and I bought again at 12.70, and then 12.50 and then 12.40 and then 12.30 and 12.25. Now indigestion :LOL:
 

havetheveryfun

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Buy which banks. Not beaten down enough :p But still worth buying local banks as yield is above 4% if held long term.

I bought OCBC 12.80. It went down and I bought again at 12.70, and then 12.50 and then 12.40 and then 12.30 and 12.25. Now indigestion :LOL:
now under $12

also 4% yield may not be guaranteed ma
 
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