Air conditioning - Any recommendations please?? - Part 2

ZacharyA

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I got a feeling most of them are buying from gain city. Because I check gain city price, is almost comparable if not cheaper...

I bought mine directly from Harvey Norman, very competitive price with vouchers and rebates. Then they sub out to the above contractors I mentioned. EasyCool / Comfort Engineering
 

animeonegai

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I bought mine directly from Harvey Norman, very competitive price with vouchers and rebates. Then they sub out to the above contractors I mentioned. EasyCool / Comfort Engineering
I checked Harvey Norman, the price between HN and GC is quite large for r32 aircons. About $200-300 difference. Although HN can price match, GC got free upgrade worth 200+.
 

ZacharyA

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I checked Harvey Norman, the price between HN and GC is quite large for r32 aircons. About $200-300 difference. Although HN can price match, GC got free upgrade worth 200+.

I don't compare by R32 or not but just simply at the brand and system, condenser and FCU configuration. HN is cheaper for ME Starmex than GC.

Yes, the "upgrades" for copper swg, insulation, water piping has some similarities / differences but not that critical.

In the grand scheme of things, workmanship is still the most important. Workmanship not good, save that $100-200 also no use
 

animeonegai

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I don't compare by R32 or not but just simply at the brand and system, condenser and FCU configuration. HN is cheaper for ME Starmex than GC.

Yes, the "upgrades" for copper swg, insulation, water piping has some similarities / differences but not that critical.

In the grand scheme of things, workmanship is still the most important. Workmanship not good, save that $100-200 also no use
Upgrades are important..it prolongs the aircon life. Workman ship can only do that much. If the material use not best means, it just means more servicing next time.
 

LIN_JOEL

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Hi, I having some issue with my aircon.
My master bedroom aircon unit fin is wet and blow out some water when it's turn on.
Last usage was around 25 - 26 degree and turned off in the morning around 6:30am.
Realized this problem when I turned it on around 9:30pm.

Aircon was quite new, installed months ago and using it occasionally.
 
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noinimod

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Upgrades are important..it prolongs the aircon life. Workman ship can only do that much. If the material use not best means, it just means more servicing next time.
Workmanship is the most important factor for aircon installation.

A lot of the complains here and elsewhere are due to workmanship issues and not material. Unless the company has no reputation, unlikely they'll cheap out on materials and use something lower spec than the stated requirement. I'd say some companies even like to push higher spec materials just as a way to earn more margin, but they know it doesn't have any real world benefit to the consumer

There's a lot of things in workmanship that can go wrong.

1 example - for new installation, is the complete refrigerant pipe network under full vacuum for at least 30 minutes to one hour to remove all moisture in the refrigerant line? The smallest amount of moisture in the line will significantly cripple the cooling ability.

Some installers may do the vacuum step, but not with a good, well maintained vacuum pump that can actually achieve true vacuum.

Or they just do a quick 5 minute job, and the moisture is not completely evacuated out from the line. This vacuum step is compulsory and actually taught to trained Mitsubishi aircon techs.

Second example.. is the insulation material securely and tightly wrapped around the pipes to ensure complete, 360 degree coverage? If it's loose then there will be condensation and eventually water starts leaking out of the trunking.

The list goes on... I would say when aircon shopping, never only look at on-paper specs, but reputation of the company. A lot of companies are low priced for a reason - a bad reason.
 

ZacharyA

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Hi, I having some issue with my aircon.
My master bedroom aircon unit fin is wet and blow out some water when it's turn on.
Last usage was around 25 - 26 degree and turned off in the morning around 6:30am.
Realized this problem when I turned it on around 9:30pm.

Aircon was quite new, installed months ago and using it occasionally.

Is blower blowing fine? Fin wet = condensation. Is the drain pan connected properly?

Since this AC is quite new is it still under warranty? Get the AC guys to check.
 

ZacharyA

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Workmanship is the most important factor for aircon installation.

A lot of the complains here and elsewhere are due to workmanship issues and not material. Unless the company has no reputation, unlikely they'll cheap out on materials and use something lower spec than the stated requirement. I'd say some companies even like to push higher spec materials just as a way to earn more margin, but they know it doesn't have any real world benefit to the consumer

There's a lot of things in workmanship that can go wrong.

1 example - for new installation, is the complete refrigerant pipe network under full vacuum for at least 30 minutes to one hour to remove all moisture in the refrigerant line? The smallest amount of moisture in the line will significantly cripple the cooling ability.

Some installers may do the vacuum step, but not with a good, well maintained vacuum pump that can actually achieve true vacuum.

Or they just do a quick 5 minute job, and the moisture is not completely evacuated out from the line. This vacuum step is compulsory and actually taught to trained Mitsubishi aircon techs.

Second example.. is the insulation material securely and tightly wrapped around the pipes to ensure complete, 360 degree coverage? If it's loose then there will be condensation and eventually water starts leaking out of the trunking.

The list goes on... I would say when aircon shopping, never only look at on-paper specs, but reputation of the company. A lot of companies are low priced for a reason - a bad reason.

fully agree
 

babyrobo

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Any idea if a 9k (bedroom) + 12k (living room) would be sufficient to cool a 2-room bto of 47m2? Or need to upgrade to 2x12k? When in use.. need to on both ac or just one because there is no door or partition separating them both. Thank you!
 

The_King

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Workmanship is the most important factor for aircon installation.

A lot of the complains here and elsewhere are due to workmanship issues and not material. Unless the company has no reputation, unlikely they'll cheap out on materials and use something lower spec than the stated requirement. I'd say some companies even like to push higher spec materials just as a way to earn more margin, but they know it doesn't have any real world benefit to the consumer

There's a lot of things in workmanship that can go wrong.

1 example - for new installation, is the complete refrigerant pipe network under full vacuum for at least 30 minutes to one hour to remove all moisture in the refrigerant line? The smallest amount of moisture in the line will significantly cripple the cooling ability.

Some installers may do the vacuum step, but not with a good, well maintained vacuum pump that can actually achieve true vacuum.

Or they just do a quick 5 minute job, and the moisture is not completely evacuated out from the line. This vacuum step is compulsory and actually taught to trained Mitsubishi aircon techs.

Second example.. is the insulation material securely and tightly wrapped around the pipes to ensure complete, 360 degree coverage? If it's loose then there will be condensation and eventually water starts leaking out of the trunking.

The list goes on... I would say when aircon shopping, never only look at on-paper specs, but reputation of the company. A lot of companies are low priced for a reason - a bad reason.
quote is the complete refrigerant pipe network under full vacuum for at least 30 minutes to one hour to remove all moisture in the refrigerant line

i guessing you talk about system 3 to system 5? or those 4 or 5 room flat? as they layout is longer? so they need at least 30mni while system 1 or say pipe is less then 10m will be lesser time needed?


this is what manufacturer instruction is:
Perform evacuating for about 15 minutes if the piping length is 20 meters. (15 minutes for 20 meters)
(assuming a pump capacity of 27 liters per minute)

Perform vacuuming 15 minutes or more, and make sure low pressure gauge reaches to -0.1 MPa (-76cmHg).

Run the vacuum pump 15 minutes or more.




sauce:
https://www.toshiba-aircon.co.uk/wp...30_R32_MIRAI_RAS-24BKVG-E_RAS-24BAVG-E_EN.pdf

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1175421/Panasonic-Cs-Vz9ske.html?page=49#manual

https://www.theacoutlet.com/documents/Installation-Guide-Mitsubishi-MUYGE.pdf
 

The_King

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Any idea if a 9k (bedroom) + 12k (living room) would be sufficient to cool a 2-room bto of 47m2? Or need to upgrade to 2x12k? When in use.. need to on both ac or just one because there is no door or partition separating them both. Thank you!
more is always better then less, not worth saving a few hundred and found out it not strong enough. a better choice be try to prevent ac of leaking outside the room as much as you can


when the hear wave come then you know why stronger btu is better
 

noinimod

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i guessing you talk about system 3 to system 5? or those 4 or 5 room flat? as they layout is longer? so they need at least 30mni while system 1 or say pipe is less then 10m will be lesser time needed?


this is what manufacturer instruction is:
Perform evacuating for about 15 minutes if the piping length is 20 meters. (15 minutes for 20 meters)
(assuming a pump capacity of 27 liters per minute)

Perform vacuuming 15 minutes or more, and make sure low pressure gauge reaches to -0.1 MPa (-76cmHg).

Run the vacuum pump 15 minutes or more.


https://www.theacoutlet.com/documents/Installation-Guide-Mitsubishi-MUYGE.pdf
From those links you pasted, the guideline is 15 mins evacuation for every 20 meters of refrigerant pipe length.
It's very easy to exceed 20 meters, in fact.

The refrigerant pipe runs both directions: From the compressor to the FCU, then from the FCU back to the compressor. Compressor ------> FCU , FCU ---------> Compressor. So the pipe distance is double, for every FCU. You can see how the piping length quickly adds up.

For a system 1, it depends where the compressor is placed relative to the FCU.

Also, it takes time for the vacuum to reach - 0.1 MPa. The longer the pipe length, the longer the time taken to achieve vacuum. Lousier pumps will take longer to vacuum, or worse still, not achieve the required vacuum target value. So the time to start counting the required 15 minutes must start ONLY after this target vacuum is reached.
 

The_King

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From those links you pasted, the guideline is 15 mins evacuation for every 20 meters of refrigerant pipe length.
It's very easy to exceed 20 meters, in fact.

The refrigerant pipe runs both directions: From the compressor to the FCU, then from the FCU back to the compressor. Compressor ------> FCU , FCU ---------> Compressor. So the pipe distance is double, for every FCU. You can see how the piping length quickly adds up.

For a system 1, it depends where the compressor is placed relative to the FCU.

Also, it takes time for the vacuum to reach - 0.1 MPa. The longer the pipe length, the longer the time taken to achieve vacuum. Lousier pumps will take longer to vacuum, or worse still, not achieve the required vacuum target value. So the time to start counting the required 15 minutes must start ONLY after this target vacuum is reached.
thanks for the new info


next yr me will start to hunt for 2nd installer liao
 

skazzz

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Hi, I having some issue with my aircon.
My master bedroom aircon unit fin is wet and blow out some water when it's turn on.
Last usage was around 25 - 26 degree and turned off in the morning around 6:30am.
Realized this problem when I turned it on around 9:30pm.

Aircon was quite new, installed months ago and using it occasionally.

model not included
 

GrandJedi

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When replacing an existing aircon system and new puping? Is it common practice for the installer to change the water pipes as well?
 
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