Air purifier? - Part 2

[Asakura]

search about laser particle in the thread. u will find some links to buy them.

 

[NWT1978]

Guys,

I am looking to purchase the Sharp Air Ionizer comparing the FU-A28E & FU-Y30E & FP-F30E.

Anyone using Sharp Air Ionizer and any recommendations, thanks.

using the FU-Y30E

good for use during the haze only suitable for small room... need to switch on fan if u decided to use it and closed the windows...unless u switch on aircon...

filters are expensive...but Taobao cheaper alternative have filter but shipping fees expensive...

 

[carlover76]

using the FU-Y30E

good for use during the haze only suitable for small room... need to switch on fan if u decided to use it and closed the windows...unless u switch on aircon...

filters are expensive...but Taobao cheaper alternative have filter but shipping fees expensive...

I see, thanks for your feedback. I will be using in my Air-Con room so not a problem.

I will try to source cheaper filters later but now still deciding which model to buy.

 

[godspeed1208]

Anyone here can borrow or sell their air particle counter to me? i just wanna test 3 AP that i have for the quality. Also does anyone knows if they sell it in mustafa ? Thanks

 

[WussRedXLi]

Hi thank you for the reply. My main aim is to clear cigarette smoke and the odor as i don't want my wife to passive smoke. And when i smoke, i switch off the aircon.But i do keep the window slightly opened. For me price is not an issue.

And i went today and got myself another 2 air purifiers. One is the cado 310 model(salesman at best recommended) and the sharp a80. So far i "feel" that the sharp works better .

i have been reading that the air quality can be tested using a laser particle counter. Do you know where i can get one or is there anyone here who could borrow it to me for a day?

Because i would like to try it out with the 3 air purifiers i have now to see which one performs better and also is the laser particle counter the correct tool to test to see which AP performs better for cigarette smoke and odor?

Thanks

I see, if you just want to prevent your wife from breathing in passive smoke particles and not the odor that is clinging to the room/airflow surfaces and slowly emanating into the air over time, then any air purifier with HEPA filtration is fine. The main danger is with the fine smoke particles, the odor is merely a nuisance and don't cause health issues.

The Sharp A80 is a good product. You'll be fine with it. Filters are available @ Best Denki also, albeit somewhat expensive (but not very expensive).


Don't really have to spend money on the laser particle counters/meters. You are doing fine with the 3 air purifiers operating in medium speed (for relatively low noise esp for sleeping/watching TV).

 

[WussRedXLi]

Anyway, the best way to clear the room of smoke is still with opened windows and a fan positioned to blow wind outwards.

 

[Asakura]

dont smoke in the house. go downstairs

 

[godspeed1208]

dont smoke in the house. go downstairs

I would have done that but i'm a heavy smoker and in an hour i smoke 2-3 cigarettes. i can't go down 2-3 time/hour

Anyway, the best way to clear the room of smoke is still with opened windows and a fan positioned to blow wind outwards.

That's how i do it too.

Don't really have to spend money on the laser particle counters/meters. You are doing fine with the 3 air purifiers operating in medium speed (for relatively low noise esp for sleeping/watching TV).

Why i want to get a laser particle counter is because i want to see just how much clean air each of the air purifiers can produce or clean. The cado 310 was $1099 from Best and has 2 charcoal/cabon filter on it but i feel it's not doing a good job. so if i had a LPC, i could be more sure which ones perform the best to clear the smoke particles.

And by the way, correct me if i am wrong but i should get a LPC which can detect 0.3um/micro particles right? I saw some but they mentioned it can only detect pm1.0,pm2.5 and pm5/10 etc. So i should get one that can detect pm0.3 right?

Thanks

 

[WussRedXLi]

The CADO 310 has a CADR of 176 cu ft/min for smoke. That's 300 m3/hr. But that's in high speed, and i am not sure about what's the noise level. Lower speeds lower noise but lower airflow.

http://cado.com/products/ap/c310.html


The Sharp A80
https://sharp.com.sg/web/products/prodDetail.asp?ProdId=451&mode=Spec

Air Flow (Max / Med / Low) (m3/hour) 480 / 300 / 120
Noise Level (Max / Med / Low) (dBA) 53 / 41 / 23

But more technically, the above airflow is not CADR, the CADR is possibly 450, 280 and 110 m3/hr? It's going to be a long story if you ask me how i get these numbers, but just take it to be that way.

And seriously, there isn't going to be a lot of clean air difference between say a 450 m3/hr machine and a 300 m3/hr, believe it or not. This is through our findings during the 2015 haze season. If you are talking about 200%, ie 300 m3/hr vs 600 m3/hr, then yes there would be a measurable difference.

I dare say that if you just use your nose in a big room in the house, 300 m3/hr vs 600 m3/hr airflow also won't present you much of a difference with regards to a haze situation (all windows closed, 1 or 2 slightly ajar so that you can keep the CO2 levels down).



So i was talking about the odor issue earlier.....there is also an "odor smell CADR" of sort. More specifically there is a close relationship with formaldehyde CADR and this uses the activated carbon part of the filter. It's probably not a linear 1-1 relationship with regards to odor CARD and formaldehyde CADR, but the below specs would give you a very good idea.

It's what the Chinese standards and testing bureau tested for their air purifiers in China. The bureau is like our CASE and PSB, but they are much more technical and spec their own standards like how to measure filter HEPA and AC filter capacity (simi CCM, FFM etc) which even the west does not have, yes do not be surprised by this they are pretty good nowadays. Folks often mistake that China/TB suck, but they do not, if you know how and what to look for.
Click on the image to expand and then zoom in....the first column CADR is for smoke particles (they used cigarette smoke to test specifically), the second column is formaldehyde (甲醛)

 

[WussRedXLi]

So from the above table, i'd advise you not to chase after the activated carbon and odor CADR and that sort of thing, it's going to get very expensive. I'm talking from experience. The HEPA portion, associate noise levels, ease and cost of HEPA recurrent replacement costs already can give you a headache.

I think for Xiaomi air purifiers, you can go dig on youku/youtube and taobao or some chinese sites, they might have the formaldehyde CADR figure floating around somewhere.

 

[WussRedXLi]

For laser particle counter, i can recommend these 2 gadgets.

The RMB 429 version has formaldehyde sensor inside. The RMB 629 has a CO2 sensors inside.

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...0g7s5&id=526471566162&ns=1&abbucket=11#detail

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...0g7s5&id=526471566162&ns=1&abbucket=11#detail

Another gadget
This one can toggle between different screens and have different display readouts. But if i am not wrong, there is no option for having 1 single device to give you a smoke PM2.5, PM xx concentration (ug/m3), formaldehyde HCHO and CO2. CO2 is usually the limiting factor.

However, for some geeks, this version does give you the number of particulates count (see below), of course do not expect this to be lab-grade accurate at all, but for home/haze/air purifier and even if you use hospital grade big-ass DIY HEPA air purifier/filters that's modified from clean room equipment it's going to be more than sufficient. (can import these China machines via sea ship, actually still significantly cheaper than your Cado 310 1.1k cost But they look somewhat industrial though some versions are pretty ok)

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...0g7s5&id=529311240188&ns=1&abbucket=11#detail

 

[WussRedXLi]

As for purchase, i'd recommend the below shipper, the taokay is a taokay neo boss, drop her an email with regards to how to buy utilizing her "buyforme" service.
http://camilize.com/

In a nutshell, just email her the URL and what you wanna buy.....best is to include screenshots and circle out the options/cost, coz the above 2 laser particle counters have lots of options so do make it exceptionally clear. She also has whatsapp and wechat contacts, in case you need to reach her urgently.



Eg, RMB 429 -> 87.55 SGD. She uses a 4.9 exchange rate.

Now if you use Taobao official forwarders, it'd incur a 3% taobao svc charge and additional ~ 3.5% credit card (eg Citibank VISA) charge. So that'd be like 93.5 SGD, probably doesn't mean nothing to you since i think your budget is pretty ok......but just for info .

Her forwarding fee to Singapore is SGD 7 (or is it SGD 6 now?) for the 1st kilogram for non-sensitive normal goods air shipment. For sensitive goods, like those goods which has lithium batteries inside, would be SGD 12 for first KG.
But make no mistake, goods like smoke detectors inside with 2 x AA alkaline cells should be normal goods, just email her.

Everything is via POSB funds transfer to her. Basically you'll do this twice, first time is RMB 429/SGD 87 for the goods cost so that it can be sent to her warehouse. Second time POSB transfer is the air shipment forwarding cost to your SG doorstep, her agent would weigh it and she emails you the cost. In this case it's definitely gonna be 1KG, so see if you have other stuff to buy as well. Her warehouse provides 45 day storage before you need to consolidate out to Singapore anyway, but usually don't do that lah.....risk of loss, keep it within like 1 week is ok.

Just register for an account on her site, it's fast and easy. Using official taobao forwarders is quite a fair bit more complicated, esp if you run into sign-up issues with Taobao platform.


I think her buyforme 代购 service is still offered FOC, ie no additional agent fees for all the "troubles". Shipforme service is all manual......same as what official taobao forwarders offer.


There are many small differences as to the pros and cons of 3rd party agents and official taobao forwarders that's not within the scope of this post and thread to discuss. But i think for your needs, can just use camilize.com, she's legit and i have used quite a few times including "payforme" in which i create a Taobao order on TB site and then i POSB internet bank her the SGD (4.9 forex) and she pays for me in RMB, thus i avoid the 3% and 3.5% fees.

 

[WussRedXLi]

BTW, please do not compare your above ug/m3 figures with NEA 1hr PM2.5 concentrations.

NEA uses a different method to measure (BAM - Beta ray attenuation method) and also does normalise the RH% of the intake air to 35% RH so that it removes the "mist" component that could mess up the readings. They do not use optical/laser means.

Actually in reality, you could also use a hair dryer and additional hygrometer (get a reasonably accurate one) to DIY a bit.....

 

[ipaq4444]

I am using this guy. This is the same size, but with 45mm depth, only the HEPA media. Airflow speed is like 80-90% of the original Samsung filter despite the deeper depth (deeper pleats). So for sure the CADR would suffer somewhat.
Original samsung HEP portion is like 38mm, with 10mm depth for the activated charcoal.

RMB 115. So basically ~ SGD 30 after factoring in shipping + packaging.
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-1526560714.10.gZRvjN&id=522668837488

edit - i think you better aliwangwang him for details. Coz i think this rmb 115 price is 45mm depth HEPA filter. The details also show a black AC layer, in which case he'd probably spec either 30mm or 35mm depth for the HEPA, and the rest for the activated carbon layer.

book mark for reading later

 

[WussRedXLi]

Click on the image to expand and then zoom in....the first column CADR is for smoke particles (they used cigarette smoke to test specifically), the second column is formaldehyde (甲醛)

This is how the China folks measure. It's not super different from USA's AHAM, basic concept is the same. Is legit, 30 cu metre room raising to 1000 ug/m3 concentration via cigarette smoke (0.2-0.5 microns particulate size), then whack the APs.

In fact if you have the technical knowledge to digest the info and data, the latest China standards (quite recent actually, confirm are after year 2010) are actually extremely stringent

New documentary!

21:45 min

20161208 消费主张 消费测评：怎样挑选空气净化器？

Unfortunately, i think the China AP would be damn noisy at this gunning level (not suitable for humans to be around in the room). Would be good for pre home arrival gunning in moderate-to-dense haze situation i guess, if there is cloud-app control.

Sharp A40 or A50?

Not sure which model of Philips (LHS "Europe" model)

Blueair (European), most likely Blueair 201 or 203 coz the results really cannot make it.

 

[wizardundo]

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/indonesia-s-disaster-agency-says-forest-fire-threat-to-escalate-9061388?cid=fbcna

The smoke is coming.. I think.

 

[WussRedXLi]

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/indonesia-s-disaster-agency-says-forest-fire-threat-to-escalate-9061388?cid=fbcna

The smoke is coming.. I think.

For those interested in the most updated info : this is the main thread for haze discussions.

http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/e...no-haze-discussions-part-3-a-5214601-531.html

 

[WussRedXLi]

Another AP documentary

 

[WussRedXLi]

Formaldehyde
Philips, Sharp KI-A60 (S$1299 @ Best i think), Blueair some model, maybe the Pro M?, some unknown tiong model

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...VGMQi&id=536397303566&ns=1&abbucket=11#detail

 

[WussRedXLi]

Washing your HEPA filter.

You will spoil it, and becomes worse than when it was unwashed, even though it looks cleaner than before.