Air purifier?

[WussRedXLi]

Posting here instead of in the EDMW 2015 haze el nino thread. (reserver for more impt headline news there)

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/...y-extend-school-closure-over-haze-frenzy.html

Islands in focus: City to extend school closure over haze frenzy The Jakarta Post, Pekanbaru | Archipelago | Mon, August 03 2015, 8:42 AM

The Pekanbaru Education Agency in Riau is planning to extend the temporary closure of some schools in the provincial capital to reduce negative health impacts triggered by the haze that has blanketed the city over the past several days.

On Saturday, the agency decided to shut preschools and kindergartens in a number of districts over fear that the haze, which comes from land and forest fires in regions surrounding the city, would make the children prone to respiratory illness. The agency also asked first to third graders in the districts to take a day off school on Saturday.

“It [the closure] will depend on the air condition on Sunday and Monday morning. If it is still not possible [for students to attend school], a follow-up circular [regarding school holidays] will be immediately sent to school headmasters,” agency head Zulpadil said over the weekend.

Although the agency does not specifically impose the policy on students from the fourth to 12th grades, Zulpadil said that school headmasters had been given the authority to shutdown their schools should they experience worsening haze conditions in their respective areas.

 

[WussRedXLi]

Pekanbaru hit AQI 185 for PM10 (324 ug/m3 PM10) on Sunday yesterday.
Probably close to 300 ug/m3 for PM2.5, but they'd have no way of measuring that.

IIRC, ard the same peaks on Fri and Sat. Don't remember any city/any date hitting past 400 ug/m3 PM10.

Bolehland and Indonland probably same threshold for shutting down schools. (Bolehland is AQI 200)
Sinkieland, life goes on.

PSI 401 is the same as AQI 401 at those levels. It would be a 3hr moving average of 505 ug/m3 PM10 then in SG. Indonesia is 1hr readings (non averaged, the average of 1 = 1)). I believe Malaysia is also 1hr. Malaysia is PM10

 

[wizardundo]

Bro WRXL, can trouble you to post the Taobao link to the Samsung A40 filter again? What do we need to mention to the seller for him to custom-make for the A40? And what is the cost per piece eventually?

I will be ordering soon so may be able to help tompang those who cannot order from Taobao! Although it is definitely easier to DIY if you can because DIY can get shipping to your doorstep!

Me! I need tompang if you're really going to order.. How many pieces will you be ordering?

 

[WussRedXLi]

You all do your own MO. I will ALWW the seller to make sure everything is cool etc. And make sure he packs nicely. Might have to pay a wee bit more to ship coz the boxes' packaging do add extra weight. But worth it.

I will also ask him to pack some of those thin thin type of pre-filter, those 0.5mm thin netting. You'd see those on Sharp original filters. Then can stick a bit on the filters, for extra pre-filtering.

 

[WussRedXLi]

For those tracking the Nino region temperatures. It's quite interesting....if this really becomes to be at the 1997 level, or if the hype is true, surpasses 97.

Some folks have expressed concern about the CFS V2 with a drop in the index as of Late. Have no fear of that. The Kelvin Wave normally goes through a process of weakening and strengthen over time. We had a weakening of the index back in early July and then a strengthening… the same is going on now. Looking at the wave structure, the Index will reflect strengthening a bit later this month. A lot of down welling has occurred in the more west portion of the thermocline and that will ripple east and will eventually recharge the Nino basin. Looking at the SOI this morning it is a very strong -38. So “La Machine” is working well! And…..The Walker Pump is quite weak…"
- See more at: http://mammothweather.com/#sthash.TfHr9hUF.dpuf

 

[Corny_Cow]

tried to read as many pages as possible. wow. blown away by the knowledge some of u have here. equally confused as well so im gonna go straight to the point.

i have eczema and am thinking of getting a AP to clean up the air in my room. i've read articles saying that i must get one with HEPA filter and humidifier. can anyone of you experts recommend me one to get?

in the recent threads the 2 popular models seems to be samsung a40 and LG PS-R459?

thanks in advance for all your help!

 

[WussRedXLi]

tried to read as many pages as possible. wow. blown away by the knowledge some of u have here. equally confused as well so im gonna go straight to the point.

i have eczema and am thinking of getting a AP to clean up the air in my room. i've read articles saying that i must get one with HEPA filter and humidifier. can anyone of you experts recommend me one to get?

in the recent threads the 2 popular models seems to be samsung a40 and LG PS-R459?

thanks in advance for all your help!

Hi there....

Was tracking Super typhoon Soudelor, so didn't chk this page so often.

Not really sure if having better quality air helps chronic eczema. But I know for infantile eczema, keeping the skin moisturised with lotion/cream (esp those with stuff lik ceramide, AHA, urea) does assist in clearing the symptoms a little. Obviously steroids help heaps, but issue is that you can't do it forever.

Humidifiers, my advice is not to get one that is incorporated into the air purifier. Get a separate one, those piezoelectric ones that spews out mist vapour, much easier to clean so that mould does not become an issue. Also, those models have auto humidification level control, which an air purifier would not have. Very cheap also, on sites like qoo10 / ebay etc.


Yes, the AX40 and LG PS-R459 or the equivalent Korean model LA-Q379SB are great all rounders sized nicely for our condos/HDBs.

 

[Mikl1984]

AP with humidification

Humidifiers, my advice is not to get one that is incorporated into the air purifier. Get a separate one, those piezoelectric ones that spews out mist vapour, much easier to clean so that mould does not become an issue. Also, those models have auto humidification level control, which an air purifier would not have.

Don't agree with your advice.
Ultrasound humi require osmosis water with TDS<10ppm. In any other case particle counter will see extra pollution
All Japanese AP (Sharp, Panasonic & Daikin) have auto humi control
Recent AP from Panasonic (J, K and L series) and Daikin (N, P, R and S) have even desired humi level (40, 50 & 60%)

BTW Daikin and Panasonic announced 2015 series
I am not able to post url due to status in forum

 

[WussRedXLi]

Don't agree with your advice.
Ultrasound humi require osmosis water with TDS<10ppm. In any other case particle counter will see extra pollution
All Japanese AP (Sharp, Panasonic & Daikin) have auto humi control
Recent AP from Panasonic (J, K and L series) and Daikin (N, P, R and S) have even desired humi level (40, 50 & 60%)

BTW Daikin and Panasonic announced 2015 series
I am not able to post url due to status in forum

Welcome !

Thanks for the update, you are right on the new APs' humidification control. Mine is the old Sharp kc-840.
I think i behind the latest AP curve liao.

But i think these wick based humidifiers, really are much worse than the piezoelectric ultrasound ones.

For me i used to use microfiltration for water to be put into the air purifier (usual charcoal block + mesh 0.5 microns). Also, SG tap water, TDS or Total Dissolved Solids at the tap, is pretty low. Someone in the Amazon freeshipping thread measured the TDS to be as low as few tens of ppm, and that's before filtration. (They use ion-exchange resin, which is really good too, better than nanofiltration).

In any case, i dont think the levels are gonna be affected that much even with normal tap water....coz the room is not gonna be airtight in the first place with constant flow of external air outside with PM (hazy days would be accordingly much worse of coz).

You cannot keep a room too air-tight, coz then the TVOC levels as well as CO2 levels would rise in an aircon room say from 8pm to 8am 12hrs. End result = worse off.

Check the water tray and also green wick of my AP.
This is post HEPA filter in the airflow.

I dont think the dissolved solids in tap water are as bad as molds and bacteria blown around. (Got water got bacteria).

That said, the ultrasound ones also need to clean n scrub frequently. But that's much easier.

 

[WussRedXLi]

I think bro akai ryu shared his Sharp A50 humidification filter condition before also. Worse than mine.

Lastly, at ard 50% RH, i feel that the wick based humidifiers are too slow. Never really brings it to say 70%, which the ultrasonic ones are able too. I ever tried once in aircon room, it could do 100%, the walls and floors were wet. Lol
But useless ba, just for fun.

 

[wizardundo]

Good Evening, my order has arrived but I'm not sure if it is the correct model..

It says AX5000, is this the correct model?

 

[WussRedXLi]

Good Evening, my order has arrived but I'm not sure if it is the correct model..

It says AX5000, is this the correct model?

It's correct. At the back there should be a sticker stating 34W power consumption, that's the AX40H5000GMD. 6.4kg.

 

[WussRedXLi]

Someone is selling a Europace 370C in Carousell. 9/10, $88. Bukit Panjang self collect.
Not too bad a price and specs. Replacement filters can get at Best Denki, or you customise from TB. 46dB, 300 m3/hr. 45W 4 fan speeds.

http://europace.com.sg/shop/index.php?route=product/product&path=68&product_id=101

 

[plasticpistola]

Good morning wrx bro (and everyone else)~

Weather really cooling these couple of days - hope it can continue for awhile.

Wrx bro - does the frequent rain means a probable less chance of haze?

 

[WussRedXLi]

Good morning wrx bro (and everyone else)~

Weather really cooling these couple of days - hope it can continue for awhile.

Wrx bro - does the frequent rain means a probable less chance of haze?

No haze this week, and probably into mid next week. After the long weekend, it will start to get dry again.

It depends on whether it is raining in Sumatra, esp Jambi and S Sumatra. And also western Kalimantan esp the lower part.
Conditions over here in SG, doesn't matter.

 

[Hisashiburi]

What do u think of this air purifier?http://www.lightair.com/products/1534951-products-webshop

Looks really nice n has no air filter.

 

[Mikl1984]

But i think these wick based humidifiers, really are much worse than the piezoelectric ultrasound ones

Have you any own tests of productivity in ml/h?

Best ultrasonic humi had about 450 ml/h in warm mist mode (120-130W)
In cold mist no more than 300 ml/h (40W)

I have Sharp KC-A61 (the same as KC-A60) and KC-A51 (KC-A50).
Some data in ml/h from specs and my results on higher humidity and temperature (summer conditions)
Sharp KC-A61RW
Specs 20С 30% 300 600 730
Real data 25С 41% 230 460 660

Sharp KC-A51RW
Specs 20С 30% 250 500 600
Real data 24С 44% 180 360 560

Thus my AP consume less W, but produce more ml/h, than any ultrasonic humi

BTW I have serious vent system with F7 filter and my CO2 level no more than 700 ppm in any time
Usually have in room PM2.5 no more then 4
But I live in Moscow and outside PM2.5 is 20-50

 

[WussRedXLi]

Have you any own tests of productivity in ml/h?

Best ultrasonic humi had about 450 ml/h in warm mist mode (120-130W)
In cold mist no more than 300 ml/h (40W)

I have Sharp KC-A61 (the same as KC-A60) and KC-A51 (KC-A50).
Some data in ml/h from specs and my results on higher humidity and temperature (summer conditions)
Sharp KC-A61RW
Specs 20С 30% 300 600 730
Real data 25С 41% 230 460 660

Sharp KC-A51RW
Specs 20С 30% 250 500 600
Real data 24С 44% 180 360 560

Thus my AP consume less W, but produce more ml/h, than any ultrasonic humi

BTW I have serious vent system with F7 filter and my CO2 level no more than 700 ppm in any time
Usually have in room PM2.5 no more then 4
But I live in Moscow and outside PM2.5 is 20-50

Hi there,

Bro, glad to have you in here to share and welcome again! I guess you were doing a google search or something an this AP thread turned up or something like that.
Really excellent, we have another clean air enthusiast here, with a F7 HVAC + Sharp APs.

Wow, I don't think that you are a Singaporean living in Moscow? This forum may seem somewhat queer to you, in a sense that it very much caters to the local crowd hence the language can get weird in a way that we talk in long slang/colloquial. So sometimes, you might not be able to understand us.


Anyway, many years back IIRC early 2000s, I used to have this similar model from this brand "Novita". Pretty common stuff, I think they have similar models retailing in local malls nowadays. Typical 5-litre tank etc.

http://estore.novita.com.sg/products/humidifier/humidifier-nh-659.html#.VcPkjtocR-E

Power Consumption
40 Watts
Recommended Coverage
Up to 130 sq. ft or 14 m²
Tank Capacity
5.0 litres
Humidification Rate (note : it does this constantly, not dependent on the ambient RH % level)
400ml/hr
Continuous Humidification
Minimum 12 hours


Nice of you to share your data!
Sharp KC-A61RW RH %, mL/hr humidification rate
Specs 20С 30% 300 600 730
Real data 25С 41% 230 460 660

Sharp KC-A51RW RH %, mL/hr humidification rate
Specs 20С 30% 250 500 600
Real data 24С 44% 180 360 560

Below is the specs of the Sharp KC-A40 (same league as the newest Sharp KC-D40, my old KC-840E etc). Your measurements seems legit, the specs are the same as the A40, as below :

Sharp A40
Tank Capacity (L)
A40 = 3.0L (the new KC-D40 has even less @ 2.5L)
Humidifying Capacity*1 (Max / Med / Low) (mL / hour)
450 / 400 / 200 mL/hr
1.Humidification amount changes in accordance with indoor and outdoor temperature and humidity. Measurement Condition: 20°C, 30% Humidity (JEM 1426)


Personally, I have not done any tests to verify, but I guess it's safe to say the ones given above are believable.

Ultrasound humidification's humidification rate does not depend on the Relative Humidity (RH) of the air, coz it's "active" instead of relying on natural evaporation. While an air purifier's wick based humidifier totally depends on the RH level and work best in drier climates.

You raised a good point in saying that Air purifier's wick based system is much less energy consuming, as it's just a rotating wick that picks up water in the water pan and evaporates it in the airflow.
An ultrasound humidifier consumes heckloads more electricity to get the same effect, airflow is key.

Over here in Singapore, it's always pretty warm so we use air-conditioning extensively after reaching home from work. RH on sunny "dry" days reach about 55% in the afternoon and gets to 70% at 8pm and 80% midnight (hits 90s or even close to 100% whenever it rains and it's quite frequent here in the tropics).
The air-con is what makes the air relatively dry if one sets the thermostat for the air-con at a low temp say 24-25 coz then the compressor would be working and the aircon heat exchanger fins become lower than the dew point (you'd get condensation water discharged in the drainage pipe).
This is an active process even if the room is relatively air-tight, as the heat does get in from the windows/ceilings/floors.

By personal experience when I was still using the humidifier in the Sharp KC-840, we usually set the thermostat @ 25 deg C or so and I couldn't get the humidity to rise lot my desired ~ 75%, the air's RH probably was in the 50+% range. I remember with the Novita Ultrasound, I could even hit 100% a few times if I waited long enough, of coz as mentioned that's for fun.


Your data : Sharp KC-A51RW (Sharp A50)
RH %, mL/hr humidification rate
Specs 20С 30% 250 500 600
Real data 24С 44% 180 360 560

44-30% = 14%. I may be wrong, but I suspect if we add another 14% to it to make it to 58%, the humidification mL/h rate would drop to maybe 200mL/h in Medium fan if we are gonna push it further to 70-75%. I suspect that the humidification rate would taper off a bit as the delta gets less. And probably ard 150-180mL/h for the Sharp A40 league smaller APs.


But your are right that the ultrasound humidification devices would consume quite a fair number of watts more, vs the APs.

Of course, that's just me then, with my acute allergic rhinitis surffering then and I felt best at 70+% RH esp when the air is cold. And perhaps for the locals here as we are used to the local climate of perennial warmer temps and RH versus to you folks in Russia which do get very crazy stuff.
I remember I was just sensitive to lower humidity conditions.... My condition is much better now and travelling to countries to Beijing (20%!!! T-shirt nearly dries within 1hr in the hotel room @ 22 deg C! LOL!).

 

[WussRedXLi]

Anyway, I don't think you get haze/smoke often (annual event?) in Moscow? Earlier in 2015, the forest fires happened close to Chernobyl I think.

 

[WussRedXLi]

What do u think of this air purifier?http://www.lightair.com/products/1534951-products-webshop

Looks really nice n has no air filter.

Seems to me that it's like an extremely powerful negative ion generator, to be able to get that kind of decent performance relative to say a 150m3/hr airflow aP.
Ozone free as well. (Already mentioned many times that ions, plasmacluster does not equal ozone....and it's tested by air quality institutes in places like Califonia and other countries etc. But quite a few others still have that misconception)

But I'd not really recommend this kind of tech. But that's just me.
Don't know where does the particulate matter go to......the walls/ceilings/furniture?


Check out the measurements, already super skewed. 35 cu m3 room but with electrically conductive surfaces, meaning that you will be far away from this in real life (china is 30 m3 normal room).
The HEPA air purifiers were run at lowest fan speed as this study is aimed at the comparison of the devices at the lowest possible noise level.

Test results here :
http://www.lightair.com/source.php/1375063/VTT Research_Report_feb 2008.pdf

Particle reduction: Effectively removes particles (size 0.01-1.0 μm). Especially efficient eliminating the smallest and most dangerous particles (nano particles below 0.1 µm), but it also removes larger particles (1.0-25.0 μm) at a reasonable rate.

The lightair has a CADR of 36 deci metre cube per second. (first time I have heard of this deci metre cube per second thingie, as the usual Metric and Imperial units in specs use m3/hr and CFM respectively)
The various HEPA APs has a CADR of 7.7-24 deci metre cube per second, but set at the lowest possible fan setting. Dafug.

Conversion, 36 dm3/s = 129 m3/hr airflow
That is not enough for a new BTO MBR sized room.
It's a US$599 machine for the Signature model, you might as well get a Samsung AX60 for usd439 with 48W, 772 m3/hr, 48dBA @ max and lower levels at slower speeds, PM0.1 @ 99% eff and keep the change for extra HEPAs.



Lightair IonFlow 50 - Innovative technology with top performance

LIGHTAIR IonFlow 50 is based on a revolutionary and unique technology and is showing remarkable performance in particles reduction tests of different kinds. The extraordinary performance is mainly due to the ability to generate enormous amount electrons forming a corresponding quantity of negative ions and to efficiently collect particles from the air. As far as we know no other air purifier has never before reached this high number of negative ions without serious side effects such as generation of dangerous amount of ozone. Compared to traditional air purifiers Lightair is not moving air through a filter to catch the particles, but instead it is moving the actual particles out of the air to a collector with only the natural airflow in a room.


Test reports from several third party governmental testing institutes such as SP in Sweden and VTT in Finland has proved the IonFlow 50 to be ozone free. Ozone has always been a side effect of ionization meaning the higher ion generation the higher the ozone level. This has resulted in inefficient ionizers in order to respect the threshold value of ozone. Lightair is as far as we know the only one who have been able to solve this problem and can attain an extremely high amount of negative ions without any ozone!