Apple replacing intel cpus with ARM...

[Koenig168]

I thought that Apple wanna "cut off" Hackintosh once and for all?

I would reckon that once they moved to ARM chipset, Hackintosh will no longer be possible on Intel/AMD machine?

That's my point. It's easier to build Hackintosh now so moving over to ARM will make it much harder.

 

[i1magic]

Say bye to Hackintosh.

Anyway not missing either. Happy with Windows 10. Couple of my friends who was on macOS for decades also move to Windows 10 laio.

They had enough of macOS funny issues.

Seriously? But because Apple controls everything from hardware to software, so their Final Cut Pro is super efficient.

 

[Mclairs83]

Seriously? But because Apple controls everything from hardware to software, so their Final Cut Pro is super efficient.

well maybe for designers then..

but in this computing world, it's all about capturing the biggest share market, and sad to say Apple has always been losing out.

 

[hafiz116]

Say bye to Hackintosh.

Anyway not missing either. Happy with Windows 10. Couple of my friends who was on macOS for decades also move to Windows 10 laio.

They had enough of macOS funny issues.

That’s an odd one. Your friends on hackintosh or an actual MAC. I never really understood the use of hackintosh apart form tweaking software to get things working.

Use case for MAC is usually around work related/productivity stuff and I would not want to change back to windows for that. Windows systems are for people that view gaming as an important requirement while at the same time able to use as a work PC.

 

[davidktw]

Ya means all program has to be code base on ARM and not x86 chips.

Most applications are written in high level language. Even C is a high level language. There are plentiful of linux applications that has been ported into the ARM architecture for more than a couple of years. It is not exactly news if you ask me

Universal 2 binaries, like the older Universal binaries will contain multiple architecture binaries when recompiled. Same old scenario years back when Apple ported from PowerPC to Intel. This time should be a better experience with more modern techniques. Am excited to know they are utilising JIT for their Rosetta 2

 

[davidktw]

Quite interesting. I think this is the first time we see ARM being used in mainstream laptops and desktops.

https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/04/06/ipad-pro-2020-versus-macbook-air-2020-performance-features

ARM has been around in SBC, servers, laptops.

Fundamentally there is nothing so different between an iPad/iPhone using the Cortex A-series, a kind of ARM chipsets. The A12Z chipset is based on ARMv8.3-A instruction sets. The interface we see outside is not a true reflection of what is underneath. If you have jail broken an IOS device before, you would see it not so different from yet-another desktop/laptop. Those naming convention are just merely human interaction naming norms with the machine. Underneath the attractive interface, everything in iOS is multicores and multithreaded designs.

If the iPad Pro 2020 is performing better than the MBA, you can expect what succeed it to do much better

In any case, the dual architectures on ARM and Intel will last awhile, since Apple has reveal they will still continue to roll out high end products on the Intel chipset. That will means new versions of applications that wanted to capture the Apple ecosystem will be compiled into both architectures as Universal 2 binaries.

The focal point on ARM is obviously interoperability between iOS and Mac OS X as well as power consumption optimisation for portable devices inclusive of laptops. High end products may still be dependent on Intel/AMD which are spec-ed at higher TDP.

 

[fbm051h89]

well maybe for designers then..

but in this computing world, it's all about capturing the biggest share market, and sad to say Apple has always been losing out.

Apple may not have the lion share of computing world, but imho, i would say they dont really need to. This is because apple's revenue is even more than the combined revenue of microsoft, intel, nvidia and amd. Could even add in qualcomm, nokia too.

Apple has the financial muscle to really change the computing world.

 

[ragnarok95]

Apple has the financial muscle to really change the computing world.

Yes, apple own world, not the whole world.

 

[fzhfzh]

Apple may not have the lion share of computing world, but imho, i would say they dont really need to. This is because apple's revenue is even more than the combined revenue of microsoft, intel, nvidia and amd. Could even add in qualcomm, nokia too.

Apple has the financial muscle to really change the computing world.

Apple pay their engineers more than twice of Microsoft, nvidia, intel and amd as well. They have some of the best talents in the world there.

 

[CyberTan]

Oh I see. I’ve very little knowledge on that.

But the second passage is irrelevant. Because when Apple created OSX, they created and compile software that would work both PowerPC chips and Intel chips from the get-go.

Most applications are written in high level language. Even C is a high level language. There are plentiful of linux applications that has been ported into the ARM architecture for more than a couple of years. It is not exactly news if you ask me

Universal 2 binaries, like the older Universal binaries will contain multiple architecture binaries when recompiled. Same old scenario years back when Apple ported from PowerPC to Intel. This time should be a better experience with more modern techniques. Am excited to know they are utilising JIT for their Rosetta 2

 

[cscs3]

Most applications are written in high level language. Even C is a high level language. There are plentiful of linux applications that has been ported into the ARM architecture for more than a couple of years. It is not exactly news if you ask me

Universal 2 binaries, like the older Universal binaries will contain multiple architecture binaries when recompiled. Same old scenario years back when Apple ported from PowerPC to Intel. This time should be a better experience with more modern techniques. Am excited to know they are utilising JIT for their Rosetta 2

Yes, recompiled is needed, but not necessary 1 to 1. So modification may be required especially if instruction is hardware specific. This is why in announcement also mention emulation mode although native mode is preferred.

This means some applications change may be required to enjoy full hardware advantage. So it will takes times especially from user point of view as it means you need to buy new version to enjoy it.

 

[cscs3]

Apple pay their engineers more than twice of Microsoft, nvidia, intel and amd as well. They have some of the best talents in the world there.

Yap, not to forget their product is also more expensive.

 

[cscs3]

well maybe for designers then..

but in this computing world, it's all about capturing the biggest share market, and sad to say Apple has always been losing out.

Not yet. Mobile market is about 39% +/-. PC market is less then 10% currently. This include those MAC users concurrently own another Windows PC or dual boot to Windows OS.

This is same situation like Huawei mobile phone without GMS. But you look at their user group, most people is there asking for how to side load GMS!

 

[davidktw]

Oh I see. I’ve very little knowledge on that.

But the second passage is irrelevant. Because when Apple created OSX, they created and compile software that would work both PowerPC chips and Intel chips from the get-go.

Irrelevant? Please kindly go find out when the first version of Mac OS X was launched and when Apple transit from Power PC to Intel for its products.

 

[davidktw]

Yes, recompiled is needed, but not necessary 1 to 1. So modification may be required especially if instruction is hardware specific. This is why in announcement also mention emulation mode although native mode is preferred.

This means some applications change may be required to enjoy full hardware advantage. So it will takes times especially from user point of view as it means you need to buy new version to enjoy it.

Yes and No. That is why Rosetta exist. I live through the age from a PowerPC machine to an Intel machine when on Mac OS X. The transition is very smooth.

And because in this case Apple has already mentioned they will still be rolling out Intel chipset products, so you can expect the transition+support be much longer than 2 years because of the support they will need to provide for the high end products.

You may want to read up on what JIT means and also how often these days adaptations of machine specific optimizations are done by compilers. No doubts there may be recompilation requires for better performance, that is why Universal binaries exists to allow vendors to take advantage of both platforms on end-users machines.

All in all, the solution to the transition is a 2 pronged approach, one is Universal binaries for both architectures, the other is emulation with JIT. I have transited through these phase previously once myself and I must say the experience has been rather seamless. I am using more than just a simple Mac user during that time, using terminals and fink ports, which are linux packages already.

Some existing software will have new versions, but not necessarily new purchases. These days so many softwares are on subscription base, it makes it the transition even more fluid since end-users are already paying for it monthly or annually. If Apple has done it once with earlier tech, I don’t foresee this time will be much worse

 

[i1magic]

That’s an odd one. Your friends on hackintosh or an actual MAC. I never really understood the use of hackintosh apart form tweaking software to get things working.

Use case for MAC is usually around work related/productivity stuff and I would not want to change back to windows for that. Windows systems are for people that view gaming as an important requirement while at the same time able to use as a work PC.

Yes. You are right. Even this Arun guy also switch to iPhone liao.

Because Apple controls the hardware + software and on top of that, they got less than 10 models to cater to. So better control will surely have more stability.

 

[fzhfzh]

Yes. You are right. Even this Arun guy also switch to iPhone liao.

Because Apple controls the hardware + software and on top of that, they got less than 10 models to cater to. So better control will surely have more stability.

Yup, that's why as mobile engineer, I never use android as my personal phone, seen too many weird crap with android phones. We had some weird bug with text not displaying properly. After digging in, found out it's only on Huawei phones because it uses some non-compliant implementation of Android String library...

 

[Koenig168]

Yap, not to forget their product is also more expensive.

because people are willing to pay for their products even though there are cheaper alternatives with better specs

 

[CyberTan]

They don’t sell computer with Intel chips. Doesn’t mean that does not with the latter.

Irrelevant? Please kindly go find out when the first version of Mac OS X was launched and when Apple transit from Power PC to Intel for its products.

 

[davidktw]

They don’t sell computer with Intel chips. Doesn’t mean that does not with the latter.

If you say so