Asus WiFi 7 and WiFi 6E routers

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rainingblanket

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@xiaofan do you know in what scenario would someone require the processing power or special features of the RT-BE88u vs the cheaper TUF be6500?

Also if I don't have a wifi 7 device, but mostly wifi 6 and 5 devices, do you recommend the TUF-ax6000 over the TUF-be6500?

Thanks so much for the help!
 
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xiaofan

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rainingblanket said:
@xiaofan do you know in what scenario would someone require the processing power or special features of the RT-BE88u vs the cheaper TUF be6500?

Also if I don't have a wifi 7 device, but mostly wifi 6 and 5 devices, do you recommend the TUF-ax6000 over the TUF-be6500?

Thanks so much for the help!
Click to expand...

As of now I will recommend TUF-AX6000 (or China couterpart TX-AX6000) over TUF-BE6500, because of more mature FW and the strong support of OpenWRT. So you can use OpenWRT even after Asus drops the support of TUF-AX6000 a few years later.

If you do not go with 5Gbps/10Gbps plan, basically no need to go with RT-BE88U. Both CPUs inside TUF-AX6000 and TUF-BE6500 are pretty decent to handle 2.5Gbps plan (or even 3Gbps plan since you can use 3Gbps plan just as 2.5Gbps plan).
 
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kimsix said:
damn son, I going to move my minipc right next to eb810v, I will be back!

Does pixel 9pro xl uses 3x3 antennas if you can connect to 2.4+5+6? Wow its using samsung modem iirc, impressed

have updated to w11 24h2 and qualcomm NCM865 from msi herald can use only 5+6 mlo, but no problem with L
Click to expand...

kimsix said:
damn son, I going to move my minipc right next to eb810v, I will be back!

Does pixel 9pro xl uses 3x3 antennas if you can connect to 2.4+5+6? Wow its using samsung modem iirc, impressed

have updated to w11 24h2 and qualcomm NCM865 from msi herald can use only 5+6 mlo, but no problem with eb810v using its first and only firmware
Click to expand...
I have no idea, took a few tries to be connected to all 3 bands but useless, speed is still slower than connecting to 1 single 6G band.
 
kimsix

kimsix

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kashix said:
I have no idea, took a few tries to be connected to all 3 bands but useless, speed is still slower than connecting to 1 single 6G band.
Click to expand...

My mlo also slower than 6ghz single

wonder mlo is snake oil, how does it works?

say the hardware only have 2x2 RXTX antenna, and say 6ghz 320mhz to achieve full theoretical speed needs to use 2 physical antenna

Wont 5+6ghz only can use 1 physical antennas each? So the 5ghz band will limited to 80mhz and 6ghz band limited to 160mhz

@xiaofan @Mach3.2 @Henry Ng @seowbin @TanKianW internet bros
 
kashix

kashix

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kimsix said:
My mlo also slower than 6ghz single

wonder mlo is snake oil, how does it works?

say the hardware only have 2x2 RXTX antenna, and say 6ghz 320mhz to achieve full theoretical speed needs to use 2 physical antenna

Wont 5+6ghz only can use 1 physical antennas each? So the 5ghz band will limited to 80mhz and 6ghz band limited to 160mhz

@xiaofan @Mach3.2 @Henry Ng @seowbin @TanKianW internet bros
Click to expand...
Marketing snake oil
 
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xiaofan

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kimsix said:
My mlo also slower than 6ghz single

wonder mlo is snake oil, how does it works?

say the hardware only have 2x2 RXTX antenna, and say 6ghz 320mhz to achieve full theoretical speed needs to use 2 physical antenna

Wont 5+6ghz only can use 1 physical antennas each? So the 5ghz band will limited to 80mhz and 6ghz band limited to 160mhz

@xiaofan @Mach3.2 @Henry Ng @seowbin @TanKianW internet bros
Click to expand...

Not an expert here.

I will say MLO is a complex topic based on what I read.

MLO is for sure useful but the support is not mature on both the router side and device side.

Dongknows tried to use layman language to explain MLO, but I am not so sure he is really technically correct in what he writes about MLO.
https://dongknows.com/wi-fi-7-explained/

The following should be correct.
+++++++++++++
Still, generally, there are two MLO operation modes:

  • STR-MLMR MLO (Simultaneous Transmit and Receive Multi-Link Multi-Radio): It's multi-link aggregation using all available bands (2.4GHz, 5GHz, and 6GHz) to deliver higher throughput, lower latency, and better reliability. (For dual-band hardware, such as the Asus RT-BE88U, this mode combines the 2.4GHz and 5GHz band.)
  • E-MLSR MLO (Enhanced Multi-Link Single Radio): It's multi-link using dynamic band switching between 5GHz and 6GHz—this mode is only available to broadcasters with these two bands—to deliver load balancing and lower latency.
No matter which mode is used, the gist is that the bonded link delivers "better" connection quality and "more" bandwidth.
++++++++++++++

I believe the following is not correct, even though it may match the findings of the people here that MLO is slower than 6GHz band. I think it is due to maturity problem of the current MLO implementations (chipsets, driver, Windows/Android support, router support, etc).

+++++++++++++
It's important to note, though, that at the end of the day, MLO increases the bandwidth, allowing different applications on a client to use the two bands simultaneously. The point here is that no application on the client can have a connection speed faster than the fastest band involved. A speedtest application, for example, still uses one of the bands at a time. This connection speed is still limited by the hardware specs on both ends of the link, whichever is lower.

So, the MLO feature affords supported clients the best probability of connecting successfully at the highest possible speed using the fastest band at any given time, which changes depending on the distance between the client and the broadcaster.
+++++++++++++++++
 
kimsix

kimsix

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kashix said:
Marketing snake oil
Click to expand...

xiaofan said:
Not an expert here.

I will say MLO is a complex topic based on what I read.

MLO is for sure useful but the support is not mature on both the router side and device side.

Dongknows tried to use layman language to explain MLO, but I am not so sure he is really technically correct in what he writes about MLO.
https://dongknows.com/wi-fi-7-explained/

The following should be correct.
+++++++++++++
Still, generally, there are two MLO operation modes:

  • STR-MLMR MLO (Simultaneous Transmit and Receive Multi-Link Multi-Radio): It's multi-link aggregation using all available bands (2.4GHz, 5GHz, and 6GHz) to deliver higher throughput, lower latency, and better reliability. (For dual-band hardware, such as the Asus RT-BE88U, this mode combines the 2.4GHz and 5GHz band.)
  • E-MLSR MLO (Enhanced Multi-Link Single Radio): It's multi-link using dynamic band switching between 5GHz and 6GHz—this mode is only available to broadcasters with these two bands—to deliver load balancing and lower latency.
No matter which mode is used, the gist is that the bonded link delivers "better" connection quality and "more" bandwidth.
++++++++++++++

I believe the following is not correct, even though it may match the findings of the people here that MLO is slower than 6GHz band. I think it is due to maturity problem of the current MLO implementations (chipsets, driver, Windows/Android support, router support, etc).

+++++++++++++
It's important to note, though, that at the end of the day, MLO increases the bandwidth, allowing different applications on a client to use the two bands simultaneously. The point here is that no application on the client can have a connection speed faster than the fastest band involved. A speedtest application, for example, still uses one of the bands at a time. This connection speed is still limited by the hardware specs on both ends of the link, whichever is lower.

So, the MLO feature affords supported clients the best probability of connecting successfully at the highest possible speed using the fastest band at any given time, which changes depending on the distance between the client and the broadcaster.
+++++++++++++++++
Click to expand...

yes wifi is as confusing as usb standards, documentations also unclear for none network trained

i readed and feel mlo will never be faster than 6ghz when speedtest. Mlo is more about parallelism, but since consumer client side mostly 2x2 hardware, only so much to parallel

maybe if speed test 2-3 devices simultaneously, with and without mlo, mlo devices may win in speed
 
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flyingcookies

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xiaofan said:
Not an expert here.

I will say MLO is a complex topic based on what I read.

MLO is for sure useful but the support is not mature on both the router side and device side.

Dongknows tried to use layman language to explain MLO, but I am not so sure he is really technically correct in what he writes about MLO.
https://dongknows.com/wi-fi-7-explained/

The following should be correct.
+++++++++++++
Still, generally, there are two MLO operation modes:

  • STR-MLMR MLO (Simultaneous Transmit and Receive Multi-Link Multi-Radio): It's multi-link aggregation using all available bands (2.4GHz, 5GHz, and 6GHz) to deliver higher throughput, lower latency, and better reliability. (For dual-band hardware, such as the Asus RT-BE88U, this mode combines the 2.4GHz and 5GHz band.)
  • E-MLSR MLO (Enhanced Multi-Link Single Radio): It's multi-link using dynamic band switching between 5GHz and 6GHz—this mode is only available to broadcasters with these two bands—to deliver load balancing and lower latency.
No matter which mode is used, the gist is that the bonded link delivers "better" connection quality and "more" bandwidth.
++++++++++++++

I believe the following is not correct, even though it may match the findings of the people here that MLO is slower than 6GHz band. I think it is due to maturity problem of the current MLO implementations (chipsets, driver, Windows/Android support, router support, etc).

+++++++++++++
It's important to note, though, that at the end of the day, MLO increases the bandwidth, allowing different applications on a client to use the two bands simultaneously. The point here is that no application on the client can have a connection speed faster than the fastest band involved. A speedtest application, for example, still uses one of the bands at a time. This connection speed is still limited by the hardware specs on both ends of the link, whichever is lower.

So, the MLO feature affords supported clients the best probability of connecting successfully at the highest possible speed using the fastest band at any given time, which changes depending on the distance between the client and the broadcaster.
+++++++++++++++++
Click to expand...
https://www.intel.com/content/dam/w.../en/documents/2022-06/wi-fi-tutorial-long.pdf
According to this intel presentation there seems to be quite a few more types of MLO but the technical details are way too complicated for me to understand.
 
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divinepotato

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Very informative thread. I'm considering buying 2 sets of the Asus BE88U from Tmall for Aimesh. Will there be any drawbacks which I should be aware of (other than warranty)? Eg., any firmware or compatibility issues?
 
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xiaofan

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divinepotato said:
Very informative thread. I'm considering buying 2 sets of the Asus BE88U from Tmall for Aimesh. Will there be any drawbacks which I should be aware of (other than warranty)? Eg., any firmware or compatibility issues?
Click to expand...

Should not have compatibility issues.

Drawbacks:
1) The second 10G port is SFP+ optic port, so you may need to use an SFP+ RJ45 Copper module (hot) if you need to connect it to a device with RJ45 Ethernet port.
2) No 6GHz band.
3) No local warranty
 
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divinepotato

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xiaofan said:
Should not have compatibility issues.

Drawbacks:
1) The second 10G port is SFP+ optic port, so you may need to use an SFP+ RJ45 Copper module (hot) if you need to connect it to a device with RJ45 Ethernet port.
2) No 6GHz band.
3) No local warranty
Click to expand...

Thanks for the swift reply. Nice to hear that it should work well. Pity that the local distributors aren't bringing in these non-flagship Asus Wifi 7 routers to Singapore. They're losing out on revenues as customers will just buy from overseas / other brands instead.
 
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shaolinpigu

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If I want to pair Asus RT-BE88U as main node with Asus TUF BE6500 as a satellite node from taobao, is there no drawback in terms of feature because my satellite node doesn't have as much features (other than connection strength etc.) as the main node? Like if merlin firmware comes to Asus RT-BE88U, will I still get the full benefits from it?
 
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xiaofan

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shaolinpigu said:
If I want to pair Asus RT-BE88U as main node with Asus TUF BE6500 as a satellite node from taobao, is there no drawback in terms of feature because my satellite node doesn't have as much features (other than connection strength etc.) as the main node? Like if merlin firmware comes to Asus RT-BE88U, will I still get the full benefits from it?
Click to expand...

No problem with AImesh. The mesh nodes runs in AP mode basically.

Merlin FW does not change AImesh or other main stock Asus FW features. If later Merlin FW supports RT-BE88U, you should have no issues with AImesh or other existing Asus FW features, it just adds some functionalities.

Take note Merlin FW starts to support Asus WiFi 7 router. So there is a chance that RT-BE88U will be supported as well in the future, especially if Asus releases it to the global market.
https://www.asuswrt-merlin.net/

RT-AX58U3004.388.8_2
RT-AX86U3004.388.8_2
RT-AX88U3004.388.8_2
GT-AX110003004.388.8_2
RT-AX68U3004.388.8_2
GT-AXE110003004.388.8_2
ZenWiFi Pro XT123004.388.8_2
GT-AX60003004.388.8_2
GT-AXE160003004.388.8_2
GT-AX11000_PRO3004.388.8_2
RT-AX86U_PRO3004.388.8_2
RT-AX88U_PRO3004.388.8_2
RT-BE96U3006.102.1
GT-BE98_PRO3006.102.1
 
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xiaofan

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xiaofan

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Not so sure when Merlin or gnuton fork will support RT-BE88U though, even though it uses the same BCM4916 CPU.

TUF-BE6500 will never have Merlin FW support due to the use of Qualcomm IPQ5322 CPU.

Very unlikely TUF-BE3600 will get Merlin FW support as well (with a lower end Broadcomm CPU) but not so sure if later gnuton wants to support it or not.
 
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