Big rant on new build cpu

[MianBaoFren]

What if that is the troubleshoot skills that VP ppl have? They do not know how to do more advanced testing. Its not their fault. They tried their best to the best of their knowledge.

sorry but i do think it's their fault in this case. inadequately equipped with knowledge while trying to guide others is very irresponsible.

 

[enenyi]

Trashing videopro might take a couple of posts, but main point was to tell TS to bring it down to distro instead of relying on shop since they lack the knowledge?

U people already touched and gone round and round this main point before the Videopro trashing started. Commach only stepped in and started his first reply in post #93, if u go back and read the thread again...

I do not see the need for the moderator to comment about EX-SIA Stewardess. Hello, what are woman to u? Need to drive down to meet u provide u service?

EX-SIA Stewardess is to tell u that u dont need someone technical to sell u a technical product. Hello, SIA Stewardess sell cars for a living is it? After the SIA Stewardess retire and become car sales personnel, u need her "technical assurance" to feel safe to buy the car is it? If u think commach is going after female stereotypes instead of technical vs non-technical personnel by mentioning SIA Stewardess, then u got it wrong.

And yes yi Long may not be SUPER ZAI, but he does humble himself when he doesn't know and at least say he WILL check. Isn't that the sort of attitude anyone would like?

Yes but remember that u are dealing with Sim Lim Square. All you just need is the very minority salesmen in Sim Lim Square that still carry YiLong's type of attitude in service to leave and u will probably be warning others against going Sim Lim Square to get conned by the salesmen. The behaviour of wad u saw in Videopro in this thread is common in Sim Lim Square, so don't get your hopes too high.

 

[Holee17]

True ah, but then since still got error then TS should proceed to distro since VP can't help right? That's what was mentioned in the thread Ma haha

Wa if that one really happen... A lot people will be shocked! Cause even those popular youtubers are using them as stress testers and even CEX and other PC shows all using similar tests to run Ma so has to be sort of useful right?

actually my point is.... what the shop think is the method to test may not be the best practice in troubleshooting....In this case, it within 7 days, it is right that the consumer should go back to the shop first and it could be of the shop's best intention to try and help and try to make the consumer happy without having the correct knowledge.They think using video to test is correct way, others might think differently...

What if nvidia/amd tmr publish a statement that using Furmark/3D Mark/Games is the wrong way to properly stress test if a GPU is faulty.. Then we so called "hardware enthusiast" all these time we also dunno we wrong ma.

 

[shadow84]

sorry but i do think it's their fault in this case. inadequately equipped with knowledge while trying to guide others is very irresponsible.

This is the best of their knowledge liao. At least they are trying to help instead of scamming TS to buy new GPU.

U cant expect everyone to get straight As or be the know-it-all then be able to help out?

please dun forget that you urself have some level of troubleshooting, perhaps even higher than VP ppl. But that does not mean that all others need to reach your level of expertise first before being able to help others.

 

[MianBaoFren]

This is the best of their knowledge liao. At least they are trying to help instead of scamming TS to buy new GPU.

U cant expect everyone to get straight As or be the know-it-all then be able to help out?

no...
but running a video and tell ts that the gpu is fine is apparently not. at the very least, let the customer know that they are unsure (even after running the video test) and revert to distro.

 

[Elijahonli]

be upfront and let the customer know that u have attempted all sorts of diagnostics that you can think of and still unable to replicate the problem. u can conclude by saying that u think the gpu works from your side and at the very least u carried out some tests that reassures the customer.

if customer still feels uneasy, offer a 1 to 1 exchange out of goodwill (although it's unlikely to happen in sg). otherwise, if problem persists, direct the customer to the distro. that is proper customer service.

What if that is the troubleshoot skills that VP ppl have? They do not know how to do more advanced testing. Its not their fault. They tried their best to the best of their knowledge.

yes what shadow84 mentioned is exactly my point...
Their level of troubleshooting knowledge could be up to using video to stress test.

in the case of VP

be upfront and let the customer know that u have attempted all sorts of diagnostics(running a video) that you can think of and still unable to replicate the problem. u can conclude by saying that u think the gpu works from your side and at the very least u carried out some tests(video) that reassures the customer.

The 1 to 1 exchange is a separate point to debate on, but since the agenda is on the shop using video to stress test a gpu, i will leave out the rest of the points for now

 

[furyoo]

I guess this is about setting expectations correctly. As a shop, when you ask someone to bring back something to be tested, you already invite some level of expectation that it can be diagnosed. That is the can of worms you open up when you offer any degree of service. Hence it is important to to set expectations right if the diagnosis has any chance of being incomplete or lack robustness.

I would regards this as a trivial misunderstanding because it is at the end of the day a personal desktop. But there are equipment out there which carry greater repercussions if diagnosed incorrectly (labelled safe to use when it may not have been thoroughly tested), and in those cases most shops know better than to offer a service they may be inadequate in.

Tldr version: you offer some level of service, people naturally will take you as competent at some level. If you are buay zhai, don't act hero and give people the wrong diagnosis.

 

[shadow84]

no...
but running a video and tell ts that the gpu is fine is apparently not. at the very least, let the customer know that they are unsure (even after running the video test) and revert to distro.

But you are right now judging ppl's skills based on your own expertise, no? You feel that it is not right to just test gpu with video. But who says your way is the minimum standard to have? No one sets a standard and neither does one dares to create a standard based on his/her own experience/expertise.

 

[commach]

True ah, but then since still got error then TS should proceed to distro since VP can't help right? That's what was mentioned in the thread Ma haha

Wa if that one really happen... A lot people will be shocked! Cause even those popular youtubers are using them as stress testers and even CEX and other PC shows all using similar tests to run Ma so has to be sort of useful right?

You are putting your own illusion of hardware benchmark methodology to determine the status of the card. In the production floor, we don't do that. QC will mount the card to the test bed/jig and start a series of automated test routine and no 3rd party stress test application are suppose to carry out during the test. If the card passed all the routine test, this card is good for release for sale.

Did you experience gfx card passed all sort of stress tests but simply failed youtube video clip. In this scenario, you gonna blame the one doing the stress test or blame him/her not meeting your expectation?

 

[Elijahonli]

True ah, but then since still got error then TS should proceed to distro since VP can't help right? That's what was mentioned in the thread Ma haha

Wa if that one really happen... A lot people will be shocked! Cause even those popular youtubers are using them as stress testers and even CEX and other PC shows all using similar tests to run Ma �� so has to be sort of useful right?

Yes, TS should proceed to distro. But it does not mean distro svr ctr have a higher technical knowledge as well. They stand a better chance to have the proper knowledge and they handle RMA requests very frequently. As compared to a computer retailer store that sells more computer parts then troubleshooting.


i have a small gut feeling that the methods we are using the test is not correct, but since it happens to be accurate MOST of the time coincidentally, Nvidia/AMD is not saying anything , but i could be wrong though

 

[shadow84]

Yes, TS should proceed to distro. But it does not mean distro svr ctr have a higher technical knowledge as well. They stand a better chance to have the proper knowledge and they handle RMA requests very frequently. As compared to a computer retailer store that sells more computer parts then troubleshooting.


i have a small gut feeling that the methods we are using the test is not correct, but since it happens to be accurate MOST of the time coincidentally, Nvidia/AMD is not saying anything

Too many problems in this world and no one solution can cater to all. That's about it.

 

[commach]

i have a small gut feeling that the methods we are using the test is not correct, but since it happens to be accurate MOST of the time coincidentally, Nvidia/AMD is not saying anything , but i could be wrong though

Spot on, hardware manufacturer have their in house test routine, they don't use 3rd party software to run test on their product. The testing software written in house and 3rd party software are strictly not allowed.

 

[Holee17]

No la actually I just think throw graphic card away better.

FYI, distro are also Technicians, with more expertise in this field. U mentioned QC and productor floor, do u think distro have such lines? I don't think so. Distributors also bring in cards from the MANUFACTURERS who have the stated floors. Does this mean that can't bring to distro too? In this case, who u want to blame?

I'm just stated that what VP did was a joke, just bring to distro to look into the matter. Want to blame, blame own decision for buying that particular GPU.

Anw u mentioned "we" when stating the production floor. In that case HWZ has really found someone who is the relevant go to person when a part has spoiled.

You are putting your own illusion of hardware benchmark methodology to determine the status of the card. In the production floor, we don't do that. QC will mount the card to the test bed/jig and start a series of automated test routine and no 3rd party stress test application are suppose to carry out during the test. If the card passed all the routine test, this card is good for release for sale.

Did you experience gfx card passed all sort of stress tests but simply failed youtube video clip. In this scenario, you gonna blame the one doing the stress test or blame him/her not meeting your expectation?

 

[Elijahonli]

Spot on, hardware manufacturer have their in house test routine, they don't use 3rd party software to run test on their product. The testing software written in house and 3rd party software are strictly not allowed.

thanks for clarifying

Edit:
i am thinking... if the methods we are using to test (Furmark/3D mark/Games/Unigine) is wrong, what difference does it make when a shop uses video to stress test. Both also wrong /mindblown

Nvidia/AMD is going to laugh at us

 

[shadow84]

No la actually I just think throw graphic card away better.

FYI, distro are also Technicians, with more expertise in this field. U mentioned QC and productor floor, do u think distro have such lines? I don't think so. Distributors also bring in cards from the MANUFACTURERS who have the stated floors. Does this mean that can't bring to distro too? In this case, who u want to blame?

I'm just stated that what VP did was a joke, just bring to distro to look into the matter. Want to blame, blame own decision for buying that particular GPU.

Anw u mentioned "we" when stating the production floor. In that case HWZ has really found someone who is the relevant go to person when a part has spoiled.

Well, to you, its a joke coz your level of expertise is higher than them. But to them, that's all that they have. Can you blame them? Are they paid to sell or to troubleshoot? They can help troubleshoot to their very best is quite good le. At least nvr ask TS to buy another GPU as replacement. Fair enough taht they nvr ask TS to go to distro for higher level troubleshoot.

 

[Holee17]

Ya that's why I said just bring down to distro, isn't it more reliable that way? Just that I wonder why they didn't do if the customer insist something was wrong

Well, to you, its a joke coz your level of expertise is higher than them. But to them, that's all that they have. Can you blame them? Are they paid to sell or to troubleshoot? They can help troubleshoot to their very best is quite good le. At least nvr ask TS to buy another GPU as replacement. Fair enough taht they nvr ask TS to go to distro for higher level troubleshoot.

 

[commach]

No la actually I just think throw graphic card away better.

FYI, distro are also Technicians, with more expertise in this field. U mentioned QC and productor floor, do u think distro have such lines? I don't think so. Distributors also bring in cards from the MANUFACTURERS who have the stated floors. Does this mean that can't bring to distro too? In this case, who u want to blame?

I'm just stated that what VP did was a joke, just bring to distro to look into the matter. Want to blame, blame own decision for buying that particular GPU.

Anw u mentioned "we" when stating the production floor. In that case HWZ has really found someone who is the relevant go to person when a part has spoiled.

You are again assuming the technical knowledge of the tech support in the distro using your imaginary yardstick. I won't measure their knowledge just because they are working in the distro as technician for the product they are authorised to sell or distribute.

Where do you draw the line of some form of knowledge? Do the CEO of SMRT know how to troubleshoot train failure or the CEO of Singtel know how to perform test to determine the status of the handset of router?

Working as a technician in the distro does not automatically gained enough knowledge to perform the test routine at the production floor much less for not having the required equipment or test bed for it.

 

[Elijahonli]

Ya that's why I said just bring down to distro, isn't it more reliable that way? Just that I wonder why they didn't do if the customer insist something was wrong

Yea that one is wrong on their part not to advise TS to go to the distro is TS is not convinced of the testing outcome.

But the main issue here is that we cant really blame a retail store for not having the troubleshooting knowledge to properly troubleshoot faulty hardware.

I will not be surprised if a new store pops up in SLS selling PC hardware at a magically cheaper price without the knowledge of assembling the pc

 

[Elijahonli]

You are again assuming the technical knowledge of the tech support in the distro using your imaginary yardstick. I won't measure their knowledge just because they are working in the distro as technician for the product they are authorised to sell or distribute.

Where do you draw the line of some form of knowledge? Do the CEO of SMRT know how to troubleshoot train failure or the CEO of Singtel know how to perform test to determine the status of the handset of router?

Working as a technician in the distro does not automatically gained enough knowledge to perform the test routine at the production floor much less for not having the required equipment or test bed for it.

haha honestly

most of the distro also use furmark/3d mark/unigine nia
if u claim still got problem. they tell u wait 2 months send to manufacturer....

by the time gpu come back, we prolly have bought a gpu because we cant wait, and sell the old one

 

[commach]

thanks for clarifying

Edit:
i am thinking... if the methods we are using to test (Furmark/3D mark/Games/Unigine) is wrong, what difference does it make when a shop uses video to stress test. Both also wrong /mindblown

Nvidia/AMD is going to laugh at us

Actually we cannot says the tech support is wrong in this case, without the proper equipment or test bed, we can't expect him/her to give you a definite answer why he think the card is not OK since he is able to play video without any problem.

Determine the status of a card is not as simple as running stress test alone. In the production floor, as long as the card able to passed all in-house routine test, the onus is on you to prove them wrong.

There are so many instant gfx card run flawlessly day in day out but failed playing youtube video due to codec or hardware acceleration issue. In this case, the tech support could be thinking along the line of possible software related issue since the card are correctly detected and able to play the video clip.

TS's problem is unable to detect the card which is not the case for the tech support in VP, can we blame him for using the "wrong" method to test the card?