BOND$ Inve$ting

[d5dude]

if to use bond express, u need to be an AI, accredited investor first

Yes and very few bonds are on bond express, only a handful are on BE and many of them are crappy perps that offer little protection against lower interest rates in the future (which is basically what bonds are) since there is a floating 5 yr SORA OIS component on reset date.

 

[0218crawford]

Yes and very few bonds are on bond express, only a handful are on BE and many of them are crappy perps that offer little protection against lower interest rates in the future (which is basically what bonds are) since there is a floating 5 yr SORA OIS component on reset date.

Are u the same guy that pretended to know lots about options but never traded one before? i also wondered whether you invested in corporate bonds before. cos seriously i have no clue what you just said.

 

[d5dude]

Are u the same guy that pretended to know lots about options but never traded one before? i also wondered whether you invested in corporate bonds before. cos seriously i have no clue what you just said.

How you know I never traded options? How you know I have not invested in corporate bonds? You know nothing about me.

You have no idea what I just said because you dun understand what you are investing in.

 

[0218crawford]

How you know I never traded options? How you know I have not invested in corporate bonds? You know nothing about me.

You have no idea what I just said because you dun understand what you are investing in.

bro. before you start bashing everything and anything, seek to understand first. at least i don't pretend to know everything. even if i know, i do not go around bashing everything that i dont invest in condescending tone. i also only share from experience, not from some textbook or youtube knowledge.

now i remembered, the guy that pretended to sell 1 delta put. if u know what 1 delta is i.e.

 

[0218crawford]

Thanks much for the listing.

Is this considered similar to an IPO? Any idea how to bid for this via bond express? What are the associated fees?

yes. this is the bond equivalent of IPO. just go to their new bond listing section to see which new bonds are being listed. their fees are a tad high though. you can try check with your broker to see whether they sell the bond. I normally use philip's bonddesk

 

[d5dude]

bro. before you start bashing everything and anything, seek to understand first. at least i don't pretend to know everything. even if i know, i do not go around bashing everything that i dont invest in condescending tone. i also only share from experience, not from some textbook or youtube knowledge.

I dont pretend to know everything but what I just wrote are facts.

The HDB new issue does end up yielding more or less the same as a current 5 yr SGS bond after fees. Bond express also has a very limited selection of bonds (another fact), of which most are perps (ever wondered why?). Finally perps offer very little protection against falling interest rates, the issuer has all the advantage over the investor because most of them have a massive floating component (SORA 5 yr OIS) relative to the intital margin. If rates fall back to near zero/zero say 3-4 years from now, all bonds (especially the long duration ones) with a fixed coupon will appreciate massively in price, except for perps (which is supposed to be long term) because the terms are reset every 5 years, what used to yield 4-5% will end up yielding 2-2.5% since the 5yr SORA OIS will fall sharply if rates go back to zero/near zero again.

now i remembered, the guy that pretended to sell 1 delta put. if u know what 1 delta is i.e.

I have not traded any option recently, so I dunno what you are talking about. Also I know you are obsessed about me but please dun make this about me, I put out some salient points regarding SG quasi sovereigns, bond express and perps. You can address these points if you like, or not.

 

[0218crawford]

I dont pretend to know everything but what I just wrote are facts.

The HDB new issue does end up yielding more or less the same as a current 5 yr SGS bond after fees. Bond express also has a very limited selection of bonds (another fact), of which most are perps (ever wondered why?). Finally perps offer very little protection against falling interest rates, the issuer has all the advantage over the investor because most of them have a massive floating component (SORA 5 yr OIS) relative to the intital margin. If rates fall back to near zero/zero say 3-4 years from now, all bonds (especially the long duration ones) with a fixed coupon will appreciate massively in price, except for perps (which is supposed to be long term) because the terms are reset every 5 years, what used to yield 4-5% will end up yielding 2-2.5% since the 5yr SORA OIS will fall sharply if rates go back to zero/near zero again.



I have not traded any option recently, so I dunno what you are talking about. Also I know you are obsessed about me but please dun make this about me, I put out some salient points regarding SG quasi sovereigns, bond express and perps. You can address these points if you like, or not.

If you invested in perps, you will know most get redeemed. only very rare does one get reset. the recent is ascott which reset their bonds due to pandemic but that is still ok as interest rate was also low then.

instead of saying perps will fall in value when rates rise, i am baffled you talk about protection against falling rates.

would you rather invest 250K in one perp or 5K in many perps? go figure.

how i know someone only has surface or textbook knowledge of options and bonds, just listen to them or in this case, just read what they write.

 

[0218crawford]

i think the someone likely to be in SGS/SSB bond too or even FD, now many Cash-rich in sg dont know where to park

they likely will keep discussing ov there, u may wanna "repost"


this means "Initial Price Guidance" it has to be determined later ?

Looks like 2.94% is not IPG. Its the final coupon rate.

 

[dappermen]

Eeeew who provided that table?
Isnt it a copy and paste? No?

 

[0218crawford]

yep. copy and paste one.
mistakes happen la.

 

[dappermen]

u dont intend to even edit and correct it ???

 

[0218crawford]

u dont intend to even edit and correct it ???

issue closed already. only opened half a day.

 

[d5dude]

If you invested in perps, you will know most get redeemed. only very rare does one get reset. the recent is ascott which reset their bonds due to pandemic but that is still ok as interest rate was also low then.

If it has happened before means it can happen again, Ascott was not in distress but they chose to not call because the environment then was not good for bond issuance, who can say this will not happen again? Also you are ignoring the fact that most perps issued before 2018 had a huge step up margin on reset, unlike now the variable component was much smaller (many do not even have a variable component on first call date). This creates an incentive for issuers to call, it'd usually cost them more to not call due to the huge step up margin.

instead of saying perps will fall in value when rates rise, i am baffled you talk about protection against falling rates.

All long duration bonds fall in price when rates rise, its not any different from a bond with a straight coupon so there is nothing to say about this. The main difference is the protection against falling rates thats missing in perps. IG bonds always do very well in a falling rate environment but since perps have a reset feature (thats tied to a floating rate i.e SORA) this price appreciation becomes limited. This creates risk asymmetry.

would you rather invest 250K in one perp or 5K in many perps? go figure.

Is this about bond express? Well yes diversification is nice but its not great when they are all perps (which basically share the same issues). I check BE once in a while but over the years I have only bought 1 bond on the platform, this is how limited the choices are.

how i know someone only has surface or textbook knowledge of options and bonds, just listen to them or in this case, just read what they write.

No need for such insults, like I said you dunno anything about me and I dunno anything about you, only the facts matter for discussions here.

 

[0218crawford]

If it has happened before means it can happen again, Ascott was not in distress but they chose to not call because the environment then was not good for bond issuance, who can say this will not happen again? Also you are ignoring the fact that most perps issued before 2018 had a huge step up margin on reset, unlike now the variable component was much smaller (many do not even have a variable component on first call date). This creates an incentive for issuers to call, it'd usually cost them more to not call due to the huge step up margin.



All long duration bonds fall in price when rates rise, its not any different from a bond with a straight coupon so there is nothing to say about this. The main difference is the protection against falling rates thats missing in perps. IG bonds always do very well in a falling rate environment but since perps have a reset feature (thats tied to a floating rate i.e SORA) this price appreciation becomes limited. This creates risk asymmetry.




Is this about bond express? Well yes diversification is nice but its not great when they are all perps (which basically share the same issues). I check BE once in a while but over the years I have only bought 1 bond on the platform, this is how limited the choices are.



No need for such insults, like I said you dunno anything about me and I dunno anything about you, only the facts matter for discussions here.

you are right on one thing though - I have no clue whether u have any clue what you don't know.

"I check BE once in a while but over the years I have only bought 1 bond on the platform, this is how limited the choices are."

shows either u are hyper conservative (put money in MILO tins type) or have no clue what you don't know. Where were you during the Great Bond Sale in March 2020? Were you there when bond prices rise in the last few years with IR tanking? or you think buy bond means Buy already must keep in MILO tin forever?

Just wasted 1 min of my time. Not goin to waste any more time engaging.

 

[d5dude]

you are right on one thing though - I have no clue whether u have any clue what you don't know.

"I check BE once in a while but over the years I have only bought 1 bond on the platform, this is how limited the choices are."

shows either u are hyper conservative (put money in MILO tins type) or have no clue what you don't know. Where were you during the Great Bond Sale in March 2020? Were you there when bond prices rise in the last few years with IR tanking? or you think buy bond means Buy already must keep in MILO tin forever?

Just wasted 1 min of my time. Not goin to waste any more time engaging.

Like anybody who is financially saavy enough to know that was a once in a lifetime buying opportunity, I was buying stocks (mainly CSPX). Oh and they more than doubled at one point and I sold a good chunk of them in Dec to rebalance last year, I posted all these on MM/SSI, time stamped so its not hindsight BS.

But enough about my trading activity, they are completely irrelevant. Its funny how you keep talking about me (must be really obsessed with me) instead of addressing the issues I raised about BE and perps, so far your argument is as such:

1. BE is good because it allows you to diversify.
This point I already demolished as myth because there are only 52 bonds on BE (there are thousands of bonds outside of BE), not only are there very few choices, a great number of them are perps. Not a great platform for diversification.

2. Perps will always be redeemed at the 1st call date because that has always been the case.
Again debunked as myth. The perps issued in recent years are vastly differently from the perps issued 8-10 years ago, very few of the recent issues have step up margins on 1st call and many of them are tied to a floating rate with a low fixed margin. Nobody knows if these issuers will redeem on 1st call if its far cheaper to let them roll on should rates fall again and/or if it becomes difficult to refinance, afterall these are perpetuals (which literally means eternal), they are not in default if they dun make the call, Ascott is still in business and unaffected by the decision to not make 1st call.

Since neither of us have any new points to make, I will just let readers decide if perps and BE are a bane or boon for investors. I rest my case.

 

[alt2015]

hi,
i see in bondexpress there is a bid and ask price. Do you buy at the ask price?

 

[dappermen]

alwys rem to buy @ the higher price







dOES TS Consider China bonds too? esp green bonds, social bonds etc
https://www.theedgesingapore.com/ne...220-billion-stimulus-unprecedented-bond-sales

 

[alt2015]

alwys rem to buy @ the higher price







dOES TS Consider China bonds too? esp green bonds, social bonds etc
https://www.theedgesingapore.com/ne...220-billion-stimulus-unprecedented-bond-sales

cannot ask for quote? ie" instead of accepting the "ask price", put in a lower price...(the price i want)

 

[dappermen]

best to email them

this is not stock trading and bonds are very limited movement

& i m not prestigious /priviledge clients, so i m not sure

The short ans? NO

 

[0218crawford]

cannot ask for quote? ie" instead of accepting the "ask price", put in a lower price...(the price i want)

buy at ask on the platform. u can try a lower price if subscribing to wholesale.