Engineering Degree Vs Business Degree?

[Kyoji83]

Time to ship ourselves out of Singapore =P

PSA Tanjong Pagar is the last stronghold standing.

Did you know it is in the MasterPlan that it will soon be moved?

 

[Kyoji83]

There is a choice. A career choice.

Whether to go ..

I agree this & not the whole thread.

1. Banking and Finance which pays insanely after the exponential pay growth.

This is if you are at the top. Most of us will not reach there due to poor poor network.

2. Civil service like teacher ... 8-15% increment and respectable job.

For GEO1 (MOE Teacher who are graduate), unless you have GCE O + local or on campus Uni degree or else it is not recognize & will never get the job.

If one have a local degree but without GCE O, no point taking GCE O since it does guarantee you a GEO1 job unless one really want to be a teacher very badly.

If study overseas, no point coming back since ROI is not there.

3. Doctor ... honourable and well paid

The % of getting into NUS MBBS or NUS-Duke MD is low cause you are comparing with top scorer.

If study overseas MBBS/MD, no point coming back since ROI is not there.

4. lawyer ... another well paid profession

You know how many lawyer earning lesser then engineer salary in local small firms & force to join Attorney-General of Singapore or change jobs since it is over supply of graduate with good Hons but job demand is not there.

5. Accounts ... good pay, nice office enviroment

or ... Engineering and be redicule like Phua Chu kang, (if you are in contruction), or have to look overseas for better paying engineering job, and have to compete with cheap cheap foreign FTs coming here that depresses engineering pay.

There is a choice and you are making that choice now .....

Account maybe worst then Engineering base on per hour rate wages.

 

[gunners46]

Milo, u very biased towards engineers leh. Are u an engineer or banker?

For me, my company is trying hard to hire singaporeans, not because pay not good. But nobody wants to work in oil and gas industry.

I agree that one raffles place offices are definitely better than industrial areas.

Still, i wouldnt believe achieving 5 figures in financial industry is like a walk in the park. Only the best deserves the best.

 

[aircraft]

Milo, u very biased towards engineers leh. Are u an engineer or banker?

For me, my company is trying hard to hire singaporeans, not because pay not good. But nobody wants to work in oil and gas industry.

I agree that one raffles place offices are definitely better than industrial areas.

Still, i wouldnt believe achieving 5 figures in financial industry is like a walk in the park. Only the best deserves the best.

I agree tat Milo is abit extreme but some points tat he made are true. Finance industry I dun know but it's not easy to get 5 figure in engineering line, presumely less common than in financial line.

 

[Agravaine]

All this talk about how green the grass is in banking is ridiculous.

Let's be realistic, the chances of getting into the areas in finance where it rains money are very slim. Most of the normal folk end up in ops, doing crap work and yet having to worry that the whole shop will be moved to India one day.

 

[patryn33]

If your cousin is not cut out to be banker .... then join the civil service.

Teaching is a respectable job and 8-15% increment.

what is if he is not cut out to be banker?
how to even get into it to test out to see if he can be one?
bottom line how to get to be a banking if one don't try out? any lobang?

teaching, RP Dip can teach? Pri school also can get 8-15%? his sis is in teacher and told him to go banking don't teach.

 

[patryn33]

No one owes anyone a living. But one should strive to provide the best for their family. Spouse, kid, parents and some say relatives. Home prices are always going up. Medical bill is always rising. So is utility bill. You don't owe your wife or your kids an overseas holiday trip every year, or a car, or condo living. But it will be good to provide these item.

Even my roti prata and kopi-o price is going up year after year.

which country prices go down as time passed?
I have friends in NZ and its like that there, Germany also same same... China/India lagi don't say.. USA/Canada/Japan also like that.

I would to go the countries where today prata cost $1, 10yrs from now its $0.10 and my salary goes up. Purchasing power increasing.. can easily afford my LV/Dior ete without burning 1 day income.

 

[Laguna123]

which country prices go down as time passed?
I have friends in NZ and its like that there, Germany also same same... China/India lagi don't say.. USA/Canada/Japan also like that.

I would to go the countries where today prata cost $1, 10yrs from now its $0.10 and my salary goes up. Purchasing power increasing.. can easily afford my LV/Dior ete without burning 1 day income.

if price go down mean the country is in a very bad state, company go bankrupt, high unemployment, high crime rate.
more likely purchasing power go into very low or zero.

 

[milo178]

You don't need to be top in banking and finance to reach 5 figure pay. All 3 of my classmates doing back end work are grossing 5 figure pay in less then 10 years with yearly bonus averaging 6 months. One who made it to VP level is grossing way beyond imagination.

One will need good network whether one is in Engineering or Banking to make it to a higher level position. Comparing to the same level, same networking ability ... banking pays way more then engineering. Way more.

Lawyer deffinately makes more then engineers. Their pay (don't compare starting pay ... we are talking after 5-10 years working) are between bankers and engineers.

Account's $ per hour is way better then engineers. Engineers got to work no day no night. Accounts only busy during month end. Very free during mid month. Bosses also treats accounts staff much better as the accountants are controlling the bosses $$$. Plus if you are smart, account graduates who joins the Big 4 and do auditing for a couple of years easily lands themselves in CFO position. Big $$$.

I took my time to analyse and talk to friends, relatives, colleagues of all walks of life. My regret is that I didn't do this earlier. Anyway ... I also would not have access to these people when I made the decision whether to study engineering or accounts or business. This network of info is only available after decades of working life.

I agree this & not the whole thread.



This is if you are at the top. Most of us will not reach there due to poor poor network.



For GEO1 (MOE Teacher who are graduate), unless you have GCE O + local or on campus Uni degree or else it is not recognize & will never get the job.

If one have a local degree but without GCE O, no point taking GCE O since it does guarantee you a GEO1 job unless one really want to be a teacher very badly.

If study overseas, no point coming back since ROI is not there.



The % of getting into NUS MBBS or NUS-Duke MD is low cause you are comparing with top scorer.

If study overseas MBBS/MD, no point coming back since ROI is not there.



You know how many lawyer earning lesser then engineer salary in local small firms & force to join Attorney-General of Singapore or change jobs since it is over supply of graduate with good Hons but job demand is not there.



Account maybe worst then Engineering base on per hour rate wages.

 

[milo178]

I am not biased towards engineers. It is the system set up that is biased towards engineers. It is how this world is set up. Just look around you. Think, observe and analyse when you read the papers .... and you will know.

You said it yourself. Your company in the oil and gas industry is trying hard to hire singaporeans but the pay is not good. What happens after that? Your bosses will complain to Gov/MOM and Singapore will be flooded with cheap cheap FT Engineers. And we all know (at least I know), Singapore is pro business.

I didn't believe it my self that 5 figures in financial industry is like a walk in the part.... until about 5 years after I graduated and the yearly meet up with ex class mates only I realise .....

Pay attention when you read papers (if you do read). Don't take what is informed directly to you by the papers as it will be biased. Take information that you have to pluck out yourself. And you will know.

Milo, u very biased towards engineers leh. Are u an engineer or banker?

For me, my company is trying hard to hire singaporeans, not because pay not good. But nobody wants to work in oil and gas industry.

I agree that one raffles place offices are definitely better than industrial areas.

Still, i wouldnt believe achieving 5 figures in financial industry is like a walk in the park. Only the best deserves the best.

 

[milo178]

Well..... at least you know that place where finance rains money exist.

Not many people know it.

Those who don't make it there will still have much crumbs to pick.

There is no place for Engineers where is rains money. Don't even talk about crumbs for those engineers who don't make it. But fret not .... singapore has always been lack of taxi drivers and bus captains.

All this talk about how green the grass is in banking is ridiculous.

Let's be realistic, the chances of getting into the areas in finance where it rains money are very slim. Most of the normal folk end up in ops, doing crap work and yet having to worry that the whole shop will be moved to India one day.

 

[Kyoji83]

• Since you know Engineer pay s**k & bank pay well.
• You have the network & know the situation few years back.
• Everyone know an engineering degree can work in bank.

My questions will be:

1) Why are you still working in engineering line & not in banking line?

2) Since you know few years back, why don't you quit your engineering job & join banking job since you may get a higher or same salary then your current engineering job when time go by due to high salary increment & etc hidden goodies, good working environment with pretty girls to watch & work with?


By the way, this joke of the day is for you & the rest:

http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/5278732_460s_v1.jpg

You don't need to be top in banking and finance to reach 5 figure pay. All 3 of my classmates doing back end work are grossing 5 figure pay in less then 10 years with yearly bonus averaging 6 months. One who made it to VP level is grossing way beyond imagination.

One will need good network whether one is in Engineering or Banking to make it to a higher level position. Comparing to the same level, same networking ability ... banking pays way more then engineering. Way more.

Lawyer deffinately makes more then engineers. Their pay (don't compare starting pay ... we are talking after 5-10 years working) are between bankers and engineers.

Account's $ per hour is way better then engineers. Engineers got to work no day no night. Accounts only busy during month end. Very free during mid month. Bosses also treats accounts staff much better as the accountants are controlling the bosses $$$. Plus if you are smart, account graduates who joins the Big 4 and do auditing for a couple of years easily lands themselves in CFO position. Big $$$.

I took my time to analyse and talk to friends, relatives, colleagues of all walks of life. My regret is that I didn't do this earlier. Anyway ... I also would not have access to these people when I made the decision whether to study engineering or accounts or business. This network of info is only available after decades of working life.

 

[Kyoji83]

No Hiring Manager/HR/Employer will be in their state of mind to openly tell some true stories about discrimination which maybe happening in Singapore.

As a ex-HR practitioner, I can share with you some real stories cause by Foreigner that is affecting Singaporean.

To attract potential candidates such as Foreigner to join the organization, some organization will provide attractive salary package such as free accommodation & foods.

However some black sheep Foreigners who are willing to have a very low salary or even a paid cut just because there is no national minimum wage acts & to secure the position thinking that they can have more saving from salary to sent back to home.

If this does not work out due to their miscalculation of accepted salary, they will just job hop once they secure another new job.

So how do this affected Singaporean?

Since there is no national minimum wage acts in Singapore, organization will base on market rate to pay their employee which is created under a false statistics.

So statistics shown that low salary is the market rate for these positions.

Can you tell me which Singaporean want to take up these position for low salary when the living cost is very high because they needs to pay for their own accommodation, foods & etc?

Irregardless whether HR have highlight this issue to their main HQ in other county, how to convince the top management to pay higher salary for these position (apart from adding more work load or/and responsibility role) when market rate salary in national statistics for these positions are so low?

Personal, I feels that it is the government fault to open the floodgate like unlimited access to Foreigners without having a Skilled Occupation List (SOL) where employers are unable to find employees in the current pool of Singapore citizen & PR.

With a SOL, it will have a better control between FT in term of real Foreign Talent or Foreign Trash.

To add on, Foreign Job Applicants are require to have a skills assessment as part of their work pass application by contacting a relevant assessing authority directly to obtain a skills assessment at their own cost & not employer, ICA, MOM & etc so that those who do not have skill, qualification & etc will think twice before they try to 'smoke' employer when there is a cost involved at their own cost.

I am not biased towards engineers. It is the system set up that is biased towards engineers. It is how this world is set up. Just look around you. Think, observe and analyse when you read the papers .... and you will know.

You said it yourself. Your company in the oil and gas industry is trying hard to hire singaporeans but the pay is not good. What happens after that? Your bosses will complain to Gov/MOM and Singapore will be flooded with cheap cheap FT Engineers. And we all know (at least I know), Singapore is pro business.

I didn't believe it my self that 5 figures in financial industry is like a walk in the part.... until about 5 years after I graduated and the yearly meet up with ex class mates only I realise .....

Pay attention when you read papers (if you do read). Don't take what is informed directly to you by the papers as it will be biased. Take information that you have to pluck out yourself. And you will know.

 

[freakerzoid]

• 
  
  http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/5278732_460s_v1.jpg

• 
  
  That's interesting...lolz.

 

[milo178]

Err.... my piece of paper is in engineering.

No banks will employ those with engineering paper and esp after being in the engineering industry for decades.

Had this info been available before I took my paper ... I deffinately would have done any other thing then engineering.

And banks only take in freshly graduated top engineering students.

And do you wonder why these top Engineering students went to work for banks?

Do you ever wonder y you don't see top financial students become engineer?

Think think man!

Think clearly before you decide which degree you want to take.....

• Since you know Engineer pay s**k & bank pay well.
• You have the network & know the situation few years back.
• Everyone know an engineering degree can work in bank.

My questions will be:

1) Why are you still working in engineering line & not in banking line?

2) Since you know few years back, why don't you quit your engineering job & join banking job since you may get a higher or same salary then your current engineering job when time go by due to high salary increment & etc hidden goodies, good working environment with pretty girls to watch & work with?


By the way, this joke of the day is for you & the rest:

http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/5278732_460s_v1.jpg

 

[milo178]

We can't really blame the Gov for the low pay.

We are in a open market economy in a open world.

we need to be pro business to survive and pro business low cost.

Low cost means cheap cheap engineers.

It means flood the market with engineers.

It means cheaper, betterer and fasterest.

It is not only here ... it is happening throughout the world.

China alone is churning out tons and tons of engineers. You go compete with these cheap chinese engineers ....

No Hiring Manager/HR/Employer will be in their state of mind to openly tell some true stories about discrimination which maybe happening in Singapore.

As a ex-HR practitioner, I can share with you some real stories cause by Foreigner that is affecting Singaporean.

To attract potential candidates such as Foreigner to join the organization, some organization will provide attractive salary package such as free accommodation & foods.

However some black sheep Foreigners who are willing to have a very low salary or even a paid cut just because there is no national minimum wage acts & to secure the position thinking that they can have more saving from salary to sent back to home.

If this does not work out due to their miscalculation of accepted salary, they will just job hop once they secure another new job.

So how do this affected Singaporean?

Since there is no national minimum wage acts in Singapore, organization will base on market rate to pay their employee which is created under a false statistics.

So statistics shown that low salary is the market rate for these positions.

Can you tell me which Singaporean want to take up these position for low salary when the living cost is very high because they needs to pay for their own accommodation, foods & etc?

Irregardless whether HR have highlight this issue to their main HQ in other county, how to convince the top management to pay higher salary for these position (apart from adding more work load or/and responsibility role) when market rate salary in national statistics for these positions are so low?

Personal, I feels that it is the government fault to open the floodgate like unlimited access to Foreigners without having a Skilled Occupation List (SOL) where employers are unable to find employees in the current pool of Singapore citizen & PR.

With a SOL, it will have a better control between FT in term of real Foreign Talent or Foreign Trash.

To add on, Foreign Job Applicants are require to have a skills assessment as part of their work pass application by contacting a relevant assessing authority directly to obtain a skills assessment at their own cost & not employer, ICA, MOM & etc so that those who do not have skill, qualification & etc will think twice before they try to 'smoke' employer when there is a cost involved at their own cost.

 

[Kyoji83]

In that the case, you cannot blame the banking/engineering/etc industries for having a low cost & cheap bankers/engineers/etc jobs since we are in a open market economy in a open world where we should be cheaper, betterer and fasterest.

We can't really blame the Gov for the low pay.

We are in a open market economy in a open world.

we need to be pro business to survive and pro business low cost.

Low cost means cheap cheap engineers.

It means flood the market with engineers.

It means cheaper, betterer and fasterest.

It is not only here ... it is happening throughout the world.

China alone is churning out tons and tons of engineers. You go compete with these cheap chinese engineers ....

 

[Kyoji83]

Err.... my piece of paper is in engineering.

No banks will employ those with engineering paper and esp after being in the engineering industry for decades.

Had this info been available before I took my paper ... I deffinately would have done any other thing then engineering.

And banks only take in freshly graduated top engineering students.

With network also cannot enter bank mean something maybe wrong on your side.

I know mature professionals from other industries also can work in bank for their mid career change.

Maybe some have MFE, MAF & CFA?

Have you tried applying to the banks? As long as you meet the minimum requirement there is really no big difference between a graduate with Engineering degree and one with a finance/accting degree. I have seen many ex-engineers in banking too, myself included. I would rather you spend your time wisely in understanding the industry, beefing up your CV and perfecting those essays u need to write.

Also, having a MSc Finance etc doesn't really guarantee you an interview and to spend like 30k? just to improve your interview chance

BTW this is a good site to read up on the ibanking in general, although some information is more relevant for the US.

Understanding Investment Banking | Mergers & Inquisitions

More relevent to TS
How to Break Into Investment Banking as an Engineer | Mergers & Inquisitions

Link: http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/p...cross-over-engineering-finance-3765946-4.html

As what Spet040Snaz, a current banker & ex-engineer have confirm that many ex-engineers in banking industry including himself by using an engineering paper to get in.

People taking about Master degree & Professional certificate like MFE, MAF & CFA may not guarantee any one a chance for an interview, what make you think if you are younger or even fresh graduate in any trade can have a chance for an interview & maybe far from securing the jobs.

Your friends does not mean they are you where they maybe better compare to you such as luck, working attitude & etc.

And do you wonder why these top Engineering students went to work for banks?

Do you ever wonder y you don't see top financial students become engineer?

Think think man!

Think clearly before you decide which degree you want to take.....

Top financial graduate don't become an engineer because they do not have a engineering degree & must start at bachelor degree level again which is a waste of time.

If those Top financial students want to be an engineer, they will directly choose engineering degree from the start & become an engineering students instead of financial students.

Do not needs top Engineering graduate to work in bank, a normal engineering graduate also can do that.

Not only limited to bank industries, Engineering graduate can also work in business related jobs like HR, sale, marketing & etc.

Think think man!

Think clearly before you decide which degree you want to take.....

 

[milo178]

Who is blaming what?

The point is that the capitalist world we are living now is skewed to bankers where the money is.

And the engineers will always be cheap cheaper and cheaperest.

If there is anyone to blame ... it your be yourself, to choose to study engineering .... especially after knowing what kind of pay engineer gets compared to banking.

Unless engineering is your passion and you die die also want to study engineering that is ....

In that the case, you cannot blame the banking/engineering/etc industries for having a low cost & cheap bankers/engineers/etc jobs since we are in a open market economy in a open world where we should be cheaper, betterer and fasterest.

 

[milo178]

Congrats to those mature professionals from other industries that made the mid career change to banking.

With network also cannot enter bank mean something maybe wrong on your side.

I know mature professionals from other industries also can work in bank for their mid career change.

Maybe some have MFE, MAF & CFA?




Link: http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/p...cross-over-engineering-finance-3765946-4.html

As what Spet040Snaz, a current banker & ex-engineer have confirm that many ex-engineers in banking industry including himself by using an engineering paper to get in.

People taking about Master degree & Professional certificate like MFE, MAF & CFA may not guarantee any one a chance for an interview, what make you think if you are younger or even fresh graduate in any trade can have a chance for an interview & maybe far from securing the jobs.

Your friends does not mean they are you where they maybe better compare to you such as luck, working attitude & etc.





Top financial graduate don't become an engineer because they do not have a engineering degree & must start at bachelor degree level again which is a waste of time.

If those Top financial students want to be an engineer, they will directly choose engineering degree from the start & become an engineering students instead of financial students.

Do not needs top Engineering graduate to work in bank, a normal engineering graduate also can do that.

Not only limited to bank industries, Engineering graduate can also work in business related jobs like HR, sale, marketing & etc.

Think think man!

Think clearly before you decide which degree you want to take.....