[Fan Club] LCHF Lifestyle - Part 3

[carey]

Yes, In fact I am still getting blood ketones reading even at higher carbs. Here is the link , was exchanging views with @Eien_kisu , but that was my last blood ketone strips. Will buy again when I travel to China later part of the year. This brand has a 2 years expiry date compared with the branded ones which is short.

https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/diabetes-and-how-you-cope-with-it.6722870/post-153103562

Our bodies are very flexible and if we are well adapted, we go back to burning ketones very quickly once we finish up the glucose source

I remembered having a big argument with some keto/LCHF fanatics over 1g of net carbs or something - these crazed fellas really believe it is going to throw them out of ketosis just over 1g hahah

I don't use blood ketone strips although I have them - I prefer a ketone breath sensor - ballpark indication is good enough for me hahah

Anyway, I tested myself many times before - if I happen to have a cheat meal (makan with friends and family), I can detect ketones in my breath in about 12 hours later once I revert to my IF and LCHF routine

 

[16/8IF]

Our bodies are very flexible and if we are well adapted, we go back to burning ketones very quickly once we finish up the glucose source

I remembered having a big argument with some keto/LCHF fanatics over 1g of net carbs or something - these crazed fellas really believe it is going to throw them out of ketosis just over 1g hahah

I don't use blood ketone strips although I have them - I prefer a ketone breath sensor - ballpark indication is good enough for me hahah

Anyway, I tested myself many times before - if I happen to have a cheat meal (makan with friends and family), I can detect ketones in my breath in about 12 hours later once I revert to my IF and LCHF routine

Yes , I avoid "debating" with fanatics that always claimed that anything that is above 50g will throw you out.

I just trust my own meter testing and also my food dairy using MyFitnessPal and i still weigh my food to this day.

I prefer to be "opened minded" and try any dietary interventions... all have their pros and cons and everyone just need to find one their body can function with and are able to maintain in over a long period.

 

[carey]

Yes , I avoid "debating" with fanatics that always claimed that anything that is above 50g will throw you out.

I just trust my own meter testing and also my food dairy using MyFitnessPal and i still weigh my food to this day.

I prefer to be "opened minded" and try any dietary interventions... all have their pros and cons and everyone just need to find one their body can function with and are able to maintain in over a long period.

You are much wiser than I am

Ya, I was just trying to poke those fanatics who do stuff without understanding why and I was quite cheesed off cos they were brainwashing others, hence the attempt to debate

IIRC it was over a certain brand of coconut cream which had 1g more carb than another brand - my take is not to sweat the really small stuff but to these fellas, it was blasphemy

 

[16/8IF]

You are much wiser than I am

Ya, I was just trying to poke those fanatics who do stuff without understanding why and I was quite cheesed off cos they were brainwashing others, hence the attempt to debate

IIRC it was over a certain brand of coconut cream which had 1g more carb than another brand - my take is not to sweat the really small stuff but to these fellas, it was blasphemy

well u can see that happening still in Diabetes how you cope thread. You see all the "internet medical experts" trying to do their best to "persuade" which is a more effective dietary intervention.

For me after years of research and experimenting on myself, I realised that indeed everyone's body reacts differently so doesn't matter whether it is that food or which methods, as long as your blood works shows that you are in the right direction than that is the method for you.

Used to enjoy all the "big fights" on Twitter by all the Professor levels personalities but most have left the platform after Elon took over.

Was at the doctor's office few days ago when he was asking me whether I should take a statin, i just show him this photo from a clinical trial and told him my level is actually in the optimal level based on this chart

 

[Eien_kisu]

TLDR:
- LDL is not a good predictive of heart disease.
- both vegans and carnivores can have calcium score 0 and 0 blockage.
- hs-CRP is a better predictor, but high hs-CRP is also caused by conditions like IBS/IBD.
- statins are only for people who refuse to take lifestyle and diet changes.
- refined sugar, industrial seed oils are bad for health
- saturated fat is not risk factor of CVD.
- extra virgin olive oil is better than canola oil
- when butter is replaced by seeds oils, all cause mortality increased
- in current science, only a plant based diet is shown to improve heart health.
- heart disease remain high despite authorities trying to lower cholesterol and saturated fats.
- stop attacking dead scientists, start worrying about conflict interests when big pharmas funds the current scientific industry.
- regardless of carnivore or vegan, individualised medicine is the most important.

 

[carey]

TLDR:
- LDL is not a good predictive of heart disease.
- both vegans and carnivores can have calcium score 0 and 0 blockage.
- hs-CRP is a better predictor, but high hs-CRP is also caused by conditions like IBS/IBD.
- statins are only for people who refuse to take lifestyle and diet changes.
- refined sugar, industrial seed oils are bad for health
- saturated fat is not risk factor of CVD.
- extra virgin olive oil is better than canola oil
- when butter is replaced by seeds oils, all cause mortality increased
- in current science, only a plant based diet is shown to improve heart health.
- heart disease remain high despite authorities trying to lower cholesterol and saturated fats.
- stop attacking dead scientists, start worrying about conflict interests when big pharmas funds the current scientific industry.
- regardless of carnivore or vegan, individualised medicine is the most important.

- in current science, only a plant based diet is shown to improve heart health.

I have issues with this statement

More correctly, it should be in current science dogma, only a plant-based diet is believed to improve heart health

 

[tomb]

TLDR:
...
- statins are only for people who refuse to take lifestyle and diet changes.
...

what about those with FH?

 

[Foetid]

tbh, i really sincerely think that LCHF diet is the only or best way to curb high blood pressure for someone like me. Exercise effects is roughly on that day or 1.5 days then other days will be hbp, by cutting down on carbs, the bp is controlled. Wow, salt or caffeine dont even matter. Salt do impact or create hbp when sugar is in play, but if no or little sugar, high intake of salt dont affect bp as the body or kidney self-regulate.

I accidentally made too salty dinner earlier (only Protein, no carbs) but bp is normal. Feel free to criticize or mentioned your views.

Just want to share or exchange some pointers in case if it can help someone.

info::

How Excess Sugar Causes High Blood Pressure

In order to effectively treat and recover from high blood pressure, it’s important to understand its underlying causes, which is often related to metabolic dysfunction in response to a high-carb and processed food diet:

#1: Hyperinsulinemia

It is thought that when the body produces too much insulin and leptin in response to a higher-carb diet, it causes blood pressure to increase. Hyperinsulinemia raises blood pressure, in part, by decreasing sodium and water excretion in the kidneys, and directly vasocontristing blood vessels.

Hyperinsulinemia may play a direct role in atherogenesis and, by extensio, atherosclerosis through the interaction of receptors on the blood vessel wall. Hyperinsulinemia is also known to alter lipid metabolism unfavourably, which promotes inflammation and oxidative stress.

#2: Insulin resistance

As insulin levels rise, insulin resistance eventually develops. If insulin receptors are blunted and the cells grow resistant to insulin, magnesium can no longer be stored, so it passes out of the body through urination. When magnesium levels are too low, blood vessels are unable to fully relax, and this constriction raises blood pressure.

#3: Nitric oxide

Fructose sugar, specifically, elevates uric acid, which drives up blood pressure by inhibiting the nitric oxide (NO) in blood vessels. NO is regarded as the most important vasodilator and helps blood vessels maintain their elasticity. NO suppression leads to increases in blood pressure.

#4: Advanced glycation

Advanced glycation end products (AGEs) are the direct result of exposure to sugars. This is one of the major pathway involved in the development and progression of different diabetes-related complications. They are believed to play a role in vascular complications by triggering processes that cause vascular stiffening and the narrowing of blood vessels, contributing to atherosclerosis.

 

[carey]

Nice contribution and sharing

Yes, there is a book out called the Salt Fix that busts the myth that excess salt causes high BP

We need salt for the proper functioning of our bodies but it could blamed for the bad things that sugar did instead

Just like salt - cholesterol has been maligned as the bad guy when our bodies make more of it cos it's trying to repair itself

Finally on nitric oxide, you are so right again - most of us are deficient in NO - some of us even unintentionally kill the bacteria that makes NO in our mouths by using mouthwash like Listerine

 

[Eien_kisu]

TLDR:
- 1 billion people in the world had migraines
- migraine is one sided headaches, light sensitivity, movement sensitivity, sometimes smell sensitivity, nausea, auras headaches, thirst, craving for sugar.
- metabolic migraine is malfunction metabolism of mitochondria function as a root cause of migraine which prompt you to rest until recovery. I.e. Energy / ATP deficiency in the brain
- people with genetic predisoosition where spending more energy in the brain are more prone to migraines
- but you can change the triggers
- 4 pillars :
- low GI diet : stabilising blood glucose, fix insulin resistance and glucagon resistance.
- fix micronutrients deficiency e.g. Magnesium and bio-active multi-vitamins
- avoid free radicals : e.g. Vegetable Oils, avoid perfumes and scented candles
- reduce psychological stress. You can't change how people treat you or say to you but you can change how you receive them.
- ketones and ketogenic diet prevents migraines
- but exogenous ketone esters which liver needs to detox may cause liver failure

 

[16/8IF]

Home made Keto Brick.

Difficult to cut into smaller blocks, next time maybe buyer smaller individual Mould would be easier.

 

[Foetid]

No use - many of them are "sheep", they only listen to their doctors and dare not to venture out on their own

cant be helped.

1. Public hospital Dietician made the decision to that my father who had stage 4 cancer cannot take sugar stuff cos he is diabetic, 2 to 3 weeks b4 he passed away. All the doctors also had advise going for surgery, advice given 2 to 3 weeks b4 he passed away. Infact they very aggressively propose performing a second scope after the first scope in which they took out some tissue sample had inconclusive lab testing conclusion. And post the scope they want to do surgery asap. I actually had to entertain many calls from different doc cos they see that i do not want their suggestions. None of them can actually tell he's not not for long. I could cos a number of relatives died due to cancer, all of them behave like newbie fresh cancer specialists. Or that they need to clock the surgery time in the hospital.
2. Clinic doctor informed me to take salt to reduce my blood pressure. i tried but it did not work. Only thing that worked was reducing Carbs, exercise, weight reduction. But comparing all these 3, i think carbs reduction or elimination was the only real effective solution so i thik it came from insulin resistance. Exercise produce a single day effect or at time 6 to 8hrs effect on bp reduction. my exercise is 35km walk or 6 to 7hrs 11min/km pace walk and also a 11km jog back to back days. Not your typical 5mins jog or 10k steps.

I dont mean any disrespect to any doctors who spent years n decades honing their skills and are so called trying their best. In an emergency situation, doctor of cos will save your lifes. But some doctors dont really kept up to new information and their knowledge is stucked in the historic past. All i am saying your body, you do whats best.

 

[carey]

cant be helped.

1. Public hospital Dietician made the decision to that my father who had stage 4 cancer cannot take sugar stuff cos he is diabetic, 2 to 3 weeks b4 he passed away. All the doctors also had advise going for surgery, advice given 2 to 3 weeks b4 he passed away. Infact they very aggressively propose performing a second scope after the first scope in which they took out some tissue sample had inconclusive lab testing conclusion. And post the scope they want to do surgery asap. I actually had to entertain many calls from different doc cos they see that i do not want their suggestions. None of them can actually tell he's not not for long. I could cos a number of relatives died due to cancer, all of them behave like newbie fresh cancer specialists. Or that they need to clock the surgery time in the hospital.
2. Clinic doctor informed me to take salt to reduce my blood pressure. i tried but it did not work. Only thing that worked was reducing Carbs, exercise, weight reduction. But comparing all these 3, i think carbs reduction or elimination was the only real effective solution so i thik it came from insulin resistance. Exercise produce a single day effect or at time 6 to 8hrs effect on bp reduction. my exercise is 35km walk or 6 to 7hrs 11km/min pace walk and also a 11km jog back to back days. Not your typical 5mins jog or 10k steps.

I dont mean any disrespect to any doctors who spent years n decades honing their skills and are so called trying their best. In an emergency situation, doctor of cos will save your lifes. But some doctors dont really kept up to new information and their knowledge is stucked in the historic past. All i am saying your body, you do whats best.

Sorry to hear that about your dad

Many of these doctors are also driven by $_$ - they would freely advise surgery cos that's a big income generator for them, regardless if the patient needs it or not

As for BP, it's natural for our pressure to go higher as we age, mainly due to poorer blood circulation and stiffer arteries etc

Besides just exercising, taking some supplements like magnesium and nitric oxide could help as well

However, the biggest culprit is our diet - many of us eat too much bad stuff like processed food and cook with vegetable oils that cause chronic inflammation in our bodies

Reduce inflammation and many of our health problems will go away

 

[16/8IF]

Sorry to hear that about your dad

Many of these doctors are also driven by $_$ - they would freely advise surgery cos that's a big income generator for them, regardless if the patient needs it or not

As for BP, it's natural for our pressure to go higher as we age, mainly due to poorer blood circulation and stiffer arteries etc

Besides just exercising, taking some supplements like magnesium and nitric oxide could help as well

However, the biggest culprit is our diet - many of us eat too much bad stuff like processed food and cook with vegetable oils that cause chronic inflammation in our bodies

Reduce inflammation and many of our health problems will go away

what are the blood works that one should test for inflammation ?

I have done the following :-

1) HsCRP
2) Homocysteine
3) ESR
4) Neutrophils
5) Lymphocytes
6) Monocytes
7) Eosinophils
8) Basophils

Maybe next time IL-6 ?

 

[carey]

what are the blood works that one should test for inflammation ?

I have done the following :-

1) HsCRP
2) Homocysteine
3) ESR
4) Neutrophils
5) Lymphocytes
6) Monocytes
7) Eosinophils
8) Basophils

Maybe next time IL-6 ?

https://www.healthdirect.gov.au/c-reactive-protein-CRP-blood-test

The most common is CRP test

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/should-you-be-tested-for-inflammation-202203292715


These are four of the most common tests for inflammation:

• Erythrocyte sedimentation rate (sed rate or ESR). This test measures how fast red blood cells settle to the bottom of a vertical tube of blood. When inflammation is present the red blood cells fall faster, as higher amounts of proteins in the blood make those cells clump together. While ranges vary by lab, a normal result is typically 20 mm/hr or less, while a value over 100 mm/hr is quite high.
• C-reactive protein (CRP). This protein made in the liver tends to rise when inflammation is present. A normal value is less than 3 mg/L. A value over 3 mg/L is often used to identify an increased risk of cardiovascular disease, but bodywide inflammation can make CRP rise to 100 mg/L or more.
• Ferritin. This is a blood protein that reflects the amount of iron stored in the body. It's most often ordered to evaluate whether an anemic person is iron-deficient, in which case ferritin levels are low. Or, if there is too much iron in the body, ferritin levels may be high. But ferritin levels also rise when inflammation is present. Normal results vary by lab and tend to be a bit higher in men, but a typical normal range is 20 to 200 mcg/L.
• Fibrinogen. While this protein is most commonly measured to evaluate the status of the blood clotting system, its levels tend to rise when inflammation is present. A normal fibrinogen level is 200 to 400 mg/dL.

 

[carey]

https://www.healthline.com/health/chronic-inflammation#the-bottom-line

This is a good read on chronic inflammation

Foods to avoid​

The following foods have been known to increase inflammation in some people:

• refined carbohydrates, like white bread and pastries
• fried foods, like French fries
• processed meat, like hot dogs and sausage
• red meat
• sugar-sweetened beverages

If you’re trying to reduce chronic inflammation, your doctor may recommend you reduce your intake of these foods. You don’t have to completely eliminate them but try to eat them only occasionally.

I would remove red meat from that list, especially if it's grass fed

But the usual culprits are there - processed food and refined carbs, especially sugar

Also, the list included fried foods - most of the time, they blame the food, but they don't say anything about the oil

But vegetable/seed oils are really bad for us as they are full of O6 (highly inflammatory) and they turn rancid very fast!

 

[16/8IF]

https://www.healthdirect.gov.au/c-reactive-protein-CRP-blood-test

The most common is CRP test

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/should-you-be-tested-for-inflammation-202203292715


These are four of the most common tests for inflammation:

• Erythrocyte sedimentation rate (sed rate or ESR). This test measures how fast red blood cells settle to the bottom of a vertical tube of blood. When inflammation is present the red blood cells fall faster, as higher amounts of proteins in the blood make those cells clump together. While ranges vary by lab, a normal result is typically 20 mm/hr or less, while a value over 100 mm/hr is quite high.
• C-reactive protein (CRP). This protein made in the liver tends to rise when inflammation is present. A normal value is less than 3 mg/L. A value over 3 mg/L is often used to identify an increased risk of cardiovascular disease, but bodywide inflammation can make CRP rise to 100 mg/L or more.
• Ferritin. This is a blood protein that reflects the amount of iron stored in the body. It's most often ordered to evaluate whether an anemic person is iron-deficient, in which case ferritin levels are low. Or, if there is too much iron in the body, ferritin levels may be high. But ferritin levels also rise when inflammation is present. Normal results vary by lab and tend to be a bit higher in men, but a typical normal range is 20 to 200 mcg/L.
• Fibrinogen. While this protein is most commonly measured to evaluate the status of the blood clotting system, its levels tend to rise when inflammation is present. A normal fibrinogen level is 200 to 400 mg/dL.

Oh I forgot I did Ferritin too.

Most of my test results seems all good, My ESR was If I am not wrong 13,
I prefer doing HsCRP rather than the normal CRP as I am more focus heart heart and my last was 0.20

Maybe next time Fibrinogen.

 

[carey]

Seed oils are just bad news for us

 

[Foetid]

Just sharing that its known fact that vinegar lowers the blood glucose through inhibition acts and thereby lowers the glycemic index.

Instead of purely LCHF, i am thinking of a little middle grounds by say cutting back my usual rice or noodles portion by 75% to 85% instead of complete elimination, the reason being that putting everything to meat, eggs, veggies increases my supermarket budget substantially, hence considering to instead add a little carbs as oppose to zero carbs. I had a random thought that vinegar can reduce glycemic index and upon googling there are some evidences.

(My home based cooking usually has 2x to 3x the normal portion of rice/noodles outside). Anyway so far, through the actions of long hrs aerobic exercises, cutting to zero or low carbs, my Systolic blood pressure has significantly reduced, from prior 150 highs to 120s, occasional 130s. For Diastolic also has drop to frequently 80s and occasionally 90s. Will monitor further and eliminate carbs completely if necessary. Also i have gradually increase my salt /msg intake to a level high enough make food tasty without increase of blood pressure. (i no longer need to control my salt)

Quote

Abstract​

Objective: To investigate the potential of acetic acid supplementation as a means of lowering the glycaemic index (GI) of a bread meal, and to evaluate the possible dose-response effect on postprandial glycaemia, insulinaemia and satiety.
Subjects and setting: In all, 12 healthy volunteers participated and the tests were performed at Applied Nutrition and Food Chemistry, Lund University, Sweden.
Intervention: Three levels of vinegar (18, 23 and 28 mmol acetic acid) were served with a portion of white wheat bread containing 50 g available carbohydrates as breakfast in randomized order after an overnight fast. Bread served without vinegar was used as a reference meal. Blood samples were taken during 120 min for analysis of glucose and insulin. Satiety was measured with a subjective rating scale.
Results: A significant dose-response relation was seen at 30 min for blood glucose and serum insulin responses; the higher the acetic acid level, the lower the metabolic responses. Furthermore, the rating of satiety was directly related to the acetic acid level. Compared with the reference meal, the highest level of vinegar significantly lowered the blood glucose response at 30 and 45 min, the insulin response at 15 and 30 min as well as increased the satiety score at 30, 90 and 120 min postprandially. The low and intermediate levels of vinegar also lowered the 30 min glucose and the 15 min insulin responses significantly compared with the reference meal. When GI and II (insulinaemic indices) were calculated using the 90 min incremental area, a significant lowering was found for the highest amount of acetic acid, although the corresponding values calculated at 120 min did not differ from the reference meal.

Conclusion: Supplementation of a meal based on white wheat bread with vinegar reduced postprandial responses of blood glucose and insulin, and increased the subjective rating of satiety. There was an inverse dose-response relation between the level of acetic acid and glucose and insulin responses and a linear dose-response relation between acetic acid and satiety rating. The results indicate an interesting potential of fermented and pickled products containing acetic acid.

 

[carey]

Just sharing that its known fact that vinegar lowers the blood glucose through inhibition acts and thereby lowers the glycemic index.

Instead of purely LCHF, i am thinking of a little middle grounds by say cutting back my usual rice or noodles portion by 75% to 85% instead of complete elimination, the reason being that putting everything to meat, eggs, veggies increases my supermarket budget substantially, hence considering to instead add a little carbs as oppose to zero carbs. I had a random thought that vinegar can reduce glycemic index and upon googling there are some evidences.

(My home based cooking usually has 2x to 3x the normal portion of rice/noodles outside). Anyway so far, through the actions of long hrs aerobic exercises, cutting to zero or low carbs, my Systolic blood pressure has significantly reduced, from prior 150 highs to 120s, occasional 130s. For Diastolic also has drop to frequently 80s and occasionally 90s. Will monitor further and eliminate carbs completely if necessary. Also i have gradually increase my salt /msg intake to a level high enough make food tasty without increase of blood pressure. (i no longer need to control my salt)

Quote

Abstract​

Objective: To investigate the potential of acetic acid supplementation as a means of lowering the glycaemic index (GI) of a bread meal, and to evaluate the possible dose-response effect on postprandial glycaemia, insulinaemia and satiety.
Subjects and setting: In all, 12 healthy volunteers participated and the tests were performed at Applied Nutrition and Food Chemistry, Lund University, Sweden.
Intervention: Three levels of vinegar (18, 23 and 28 mmol acetic acid) were served with a portion of white wheat bread containing 50 g available carbohydrates as breakfast in randomized order after an overnight fast. Bread served without vinegar was used as a reference meal. Blood samples were taken during 120 min for analysis of glucose and insulin. Satiety was measured with a subjective rating scale.
Results: A significant dose-response relation was seen at 30 min for blood glucose and serum insulin responses; the higher the acetic acid level, the lower the metabolic responses. Furthermore, the rating of satiety was directly related to the acetic acid level. Compared with the reference meal, the highest level of vinegar significantly lowered the blood glucose response at 30 and 45 min, the insulin response at 15 and 30 min as well as increased the satiety score at 30, 90 and 120 min postprandially. The low and intermediate levels of vinegar also lowered the 30 min glucose and the 15 min insulin responses significantly compared with the reference meal. When GI and II (insulinaemic indices) were calculated using the 90 min incremental area, a significant lowering was found for the highest amount of acetic acid, although the corresponding values calculated at 120 min did not differ from the reference meal.

Conclusion: Supplementation of a meal based on white wheat bread with vinegar reduced postprandial responses of blood glucose and insulin, and increased the subjective rating of satiety. There was an inverse dose-response relation between the level of acetic acid and glucose and insulin responses and a linear dose-response relation between acetic acid and satiety rating. The results indicate an interesting potential of fermented and pickled products containing acetic acid.

There are some good research on how overnight rice and potatoes can turn into resistant starches after reheating, which not only lowers how much carbs our bodies can absorb but can also feed our gut bacteria

So instead of just eating lesser carbs, you can try these resistant starches

Some studies have also shown that cooking rice with coconut oil can also lower the starch our bodies can absorb (without having to buy those expensive "low carb" rice cookers hahah)

I only eat 1 meal a day and it's actually not that expensive for me to eat a meal higher in protein and fats