(GPGT)Espresso machine hoot

[Rprime]

Thermoblock usually produce quite a wet steam from my experience with a Jura.. Not really idea for steaming microfoam and usually not powerful enough.

Getting a Silvia would be a better choice for me haha

 

[sohzai]

Welhome is from hongkong. Kaffee kultur group from singapore polytechnic used to carry them before. Matched with a reasonable grinder at $1k 2 years ago.

I used the machine before. They produce reasonably good results. In fact, the distributor told me they are the same maker of other Italian machines and their parts as he has visited their factory before.

I think this could be a classic example of oem factory coming up with their own brand.

Sent from Samsung SM-N910G using GAGT

 

[IntelFlash]

If you don't mind such aluminium thermobloc, buy those cheap delonghi or krups machines will do.

 

[relaxlabrudder]

Welhome is from hongkong. Kaffee kultur group from singapore polytechnic used to carry them before. Matched with a reasonable grinder at $1k 2 years ago.

I used the machine before. They produce reasonably good results. In fact, the distributor told me they are the same maker of other Italian machines and their parts as he has visited their factory before.

I think this could be a classic example of oem factory coming up with their own brand.

Sent from Samsung SM-N910G using GAGT

Thanks for great info. Yeah...i been asking myself...there is really no way the manufacturing machine in china cannot produce same quality of machine as european counterparts. ..

 

[Corsabrin]

is rancilio silvia + rancilio rocky an acceptable starting combo?

 

[testerjp]

is rancilio silvia + rancilio rocky an acceptable starting combo?

Ya if your full budget is below $1500.

But i think it's betta to up your budget for a hx.
http://www.finecoffeecompany.com

Or you can see if there's any used HX in the market.

 

[patryn33]

Welhome is from hongkong. Kaffee kultur group from singapore polytechnic used to carry them before. Matched with a reasonable grinder at $1k 2 years ago.

I used the machine before. They produce reasonably good results. In fact, the distributor told me they are the same maker of other Italian machines and their parts as he has visited their factory before.

I think this could be a classic example of oem factory coming up with their own brand.

Sent from Samsung SM-N910G using GAGT

i am sure they make parts for European makers but do their own products have the same high quality?

Iirc there was a plant out in Cali making a gm and a Toyota on different line and quality very different. Btw it's a Toyota and gm joint venture

Thanks for great info. Yeah...i been asking myself...there is really no way the manufacturing machine in china cannot produce same quality of machine as european counterparts. ..

There is a way but us today there yet is the question.
Japan in 1950-1960 are making and copying stuff, today they making high quality stuff. Is Chinese going away from selling by volume to obtain profit or sell high quality stuff at high margin to obtain profit?

In the watch industry they are still at the volume model. Has this industry changed? I don't know.

After sales service have you taken that into consideration? Why did the group stop carrying the brand? High quality product but poor sales as poor marketing?

Big Chinese roaster or cafe such as http://vcoffee.com or http://www.pureespresso.com.cn/ using what?

 

[patryn33]

From their well know espresso machine maker.my china friends who open cafe all tell me get this.

Am deciding between this or expobar e61. The feedback very good


淘宝商品:Welhome/惠家KD-310咖啡机商用专业半自动意式家用咖啡机 http://m.tb.cn/h.k1zB?sm=ae26d1 (******************************************************复制整段信息，打开手机淘宝可直接访问******************************************************)

RMB6800 for that?

Best buy

wait really 6800 RMB thats like sgd$1500!
http://tw.taobao.com/product/Welhome-KD-310.htm

E61 for $2K...
http://www.finecoffeecompany.com/shop/expobar-leva-eb61/

by online entry level E61 like eur$900+.. hmm... ppl have bought grinder here with no issues here.. maybe can core E61+grinder at under $2000 from a EU brand.
https://www.espressocoffeeshop.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=140_156_158
https://www.espressocoffeeshop.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=140_196_197

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

Thanks for great info. Yeah...i been asking myself...there is really no way the manufacturing machine in china cannot produce same quality of machine as european counterparts. ..

agreed but i think best if you are able to to see the machine 1st hand and test it out. compare it with other machines too. can try going to highlander coffee or papa palheta to make a comparison with other standard hx or double boiler e61s.

another poster mentioned the wet steam of thermoblock. i experience this with my jura too so might wanna check if if the issue is similar with the welhome. can just go tangs and ask the sales person to try out a jura or saeco to get an idea how the steaming from a thermoblock is like. If i'm not wrong ascaso dream is also using a thermoblock.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

wait really 6800 RM thats like sgd$2300!
http://tw.taobao.com/product/Welhome-KD-310.htm

E61 for $2K...
http://www.finecoffeecompany.com/shop/expobar-leva-eb61/

by online entry level E61 like eur$900+.. hmm... ppl have bought grinder here with no issues here.. maybe can core E61+grinder at under $2300 from a EU brand
https://www.espressocoffeeshop.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=140_156_158
https://www.espressocoffeeshop.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=140_196_197

rmb not rm

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

After sales service have you taken that into consideration? Why did the group stop carrying the brand? High quality product but poor sales as poor marketing?

yep agreed on the after sales. machines do break down and need servicing. best to get a machine with a local rep here. unless you are getting a manual lever. then you can practically take apart everything yourself.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

is rancilio silvia + rancilio rocky an acceptable starting combo?

silva and rocky was probably ok 8 years ago but now the silvia and rocky is expensive for what it is.

the silvia has a learning curve to master for temp control unless you added a pid to it. then its quite rock solid and you should be happy with it if you are just an espresso drinker. not too good for latte as its a single boiler and does take a bit of time to heat up for steaming duties.

the silvia is also unforgiving of bad distribution and tamp technique. no preinfusion from a gicleur or preinfusion chamber. very old school but will force you to perfect your technique to get an even extraction.

I won't recommend the rocky. rock solid but you may have some frustration with adjusting the grind settings its a stepped grinder but the steps are too wide apart to make adjustments.
i would still take a silvia if i had no other options..

 

[wusong0901]

I am thinking of upgrading my espresso machine from the delonghi. What are your suggestions if not the Silvia? Agree that the silvia is a bit overprice now.
Are Breville machines any good? I saw they have 2 models at Taka, the infuser around $1k (SB, with pressure gauge, Pid but cant adjust temp). This is close to my budget.
Or should I stretch my budget a bit further to get an used HX?

 

[testerjp]

Suggest that you stick to the reliable, durable and easy (HX) heat exchanger semi professional class machines.
Even if it blows your budget.

PID can help in consistency and let you have a little control but that does not mean it will give you a better espresso.
HX machines seems to make a more lively and brighter espresso due to its inherent behavior.
Fresh water is always used for HX systems which imo is important.
A PID machine maybe good for a commercial environment with many newbies handling. Example: Starbucks.

As for Breville, with so much plastic, the usual phenomenon for such plastic domestic machines is they normally break down in a few years. You may want to check the review regarding its durability. Most of those additional features are imho secondary and may translate to more possible problems ahead.

Imagine few years later when it breaks down, the model phased out, parts are not available.
What can you do? Or if you intend to sell it, how much can you get? 10%-20% back if it's working, zero if it's not?
Then you pay another $1-2k for another machine.

Good semi professional class machines are meant to be repairable and durable.
30-50 years later, you'll still be using it after a little refurbishment. Your great great great grand children may still be using the same machine.
There are machines made more than 50 years ago still working today and can still make a very solid cup.
Those old machines are resold at crazy prices today.

Talk about resale value?
It can easily fetch 70% of it's current RRP.
Many years later, the machine you paid for should increase a lot in price from inflation. So you may actually pay nothing for using a better machine from the price you sell.
Even if it's faulty, people buy them.

It is just like people who buy Rolex because everyone knows they will keep value and can be used for generations after servicing.

This guy talking in the video is Dan Kehn, nickname HB.
The owner of http://www.home-barista.com

 

[patryn33]

rmb not rm

thank you for correcting.. will correct

 

[patryn33]

yep agreed on the after sales. machines do break down and need servicing. best to get a machine with a local rep here. unless you are getting a manual lever. then you can practically take apart everything yourself.

well, any machine can easily take apart... can put back together is another issue.

with ppl here selling and servicing E61 units.. one can always get a brand overseas which is carried by ppl here.

for the brave souls manual lever or HX they will read and learn how to service, but thats not the norm

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

well, any machine can easily take apart... can put back together is another issue.

with ppl here selling and servicing E61 units.. one can always get a brand overseas which is carried by ppl here.

for the brave souls manual lever or HX they will read and learn how to service, but thats not the norm

haha yes harder to put back. i think its because Singaporeans don't have the time or patience. always overtime at work where got time to tinker with a coffee machine lol.

manual levers are relatively easier to service on our own though compared to a hx. minimal electronic parts. the level is a simple mechanical device.

 

[relaxlabrudder]

agreed but i think best if you are able to to see the machine 1st hand and test it out. compare it with other machines too. can try going to highlander coffee or papa palheta to make a comparison with other standard hx or double boiler e61s.

another poster mentioned the wet steam of thermoblock. i experience this with my jura too so might wanna check if if the issue is similar with the welhome. can just go tangs and ask the sales person to try out a jura or saeco to get an idea how the steaming from a thermoblock is like. If i'm not wrong ascaso dream is also using a thermoblock.

Steaming? Is it impt if i dun froth milk? I drink black

 

[patryn33]

haha yes harder to put back. i think its because Singaporeans don't have the time or patience. always overtime at work where got time to tinker with a coffee machine lol.

manual levers are relatively easier to service on our own though compared to a hx. minimal electronic parts. the level is a simple mechanical device.

No one really service a electronic part, cheaper to buy that pcb and replace

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

No one really service a electronic part, cheaper to buy that pcb and replace

no pcbs for manual levers. fuses, switches and light bulbs. just unplug and replace.. wala