(GPGT)Espresso machine hoot

[chikyblink]

Did the idea to go chinkyblink house take off?

I think go your house better leh...seeing you have a wider range of brewing equipments. I could bring my HG One along. The_King can bring his pharos.
So how about it?

 

[derazor]

I think go your house better leh...seeing you have a wider range of brewing equipments. I could bring my HG One along. The_King can bring his pharos.
So how about it?

When?fdffdz

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

When?fdffdz

Paiseh paiseh although the offer of a hg one and Pharos is very tempting I'm a very private person and don't want to be sexposed.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

I dun have aero press...I use plunger...

but these days I am very addicted to refining my skills in pour over. many ppl all think pour over just pour will do ~~~~~

Care to share what pour over method u use? I'm keen an a Chemex but it looks too similar to a v60 which I already have. So not sure if there will be a diff.

 

[n0d3]

Care to share what pour over method u use? I'm keen an a Chemex but it looks too similar to a v60 which I already have. So not sure if there will be a diff.

Chemex will taste inherently different because of the paper, there is a "two-pass" due to the folds, more oils are absorbed, you'll get a cleaner taste (so unless you're using perhaps African coffee i.e. Ethiopians etc., there isn't much point). Both require some "skill" in terms of getting a good gooseneck kettle and controlling your pour. I find the Kalita wave is VERY forgiving and gives good results despite your pouring skills due to the flat base. The only place that sells it locally now is OZ Speciality Coffee (look for Will, he's pretty nice) and Nylon.

 

[n0d3]

Blue mountain cost $10 a cup in Singapore. I tried it 8 years ago. I am not sure if it still cost $10 this day.

I can only say it is a cup of coffee with very exquisite taste/notes in it. it can only be drank as short/long black. expresso MB is, IMO, wasted.

If u ask me if I wanna try again? meh. but I prefer Blue Mt blend with Columbia style

I am always a Columbian fan. there is no right or wrg way in coffee making. I was really laffing off quietly when I read the article intelflash shared.

How a drink is drank, depends a lot on culture and history. All u can say is, abcde is the authentic way this drink is being made and how it is being drank thus its authenticness in the given area.

Exactly lah... A lot of blue mountain actually dunno from which mountain also.....

The Taka one at lease is from a single estate. Blue mahoe estate.

Hello, WRT the article Intel posted, well Italians love it the way they make it, fine. It's cultural, just like how kopi-O will always be a main staple here in Singapore/Asia. But to me, most robustas and the way they are roasted for kopi-O etc. just tastes like burnt rubber. I just find third wave coffee inherently more interesting (note, I didn't use more right, I just said more interesting) because you get lots of subtle flavours from coffee whether it's espresso or handbrew and you get to experience what the bean has to offer instead of plain ol' heavy body, chocolate/nuttiness etc. And it's exciting because the roasters work with the farmers to get the kind of beans/quality they want, read "God in a Cup", it really shows you the extent the big 3 (Intelligentsia, Stumptown, Blue Bottle) went to get a more interesting cup of coffee.

I have nothing against heavy body espresso that just tastes like how coffee would taste like, but I feel that it'll be a waste not to try other varieties not from Sumatra or Costa Rica (i.e. the really flora Africans), even from local roasters (but pity most espressos here are made for the local palate which is still evolving, so they tend to be pretty 'safe' in a sense, and you'll hardly find any single origins).

As for things like Blue Mountain/Kopi Luwak etc. I find it's more commercialisation/branding than anything (much like the article where Intel posted showing how it's mostly machine sales that drive the coffee industry in Italy). It all boils down to taste. And even though you buy some fancy coffee from a speciality coffee place that lists origin, farm, lot, altitude, type of processing etc., JUST because it's traceable DOES NOT mean it's good and vice versa.

 

[n0d3]

*I'm not implying robusta is bad (and similarly just because something is 100% arabica does not mean it's good). It has it's uses, such as adding it to an espresso blend to get more crema (and more crema does not automatically mean it's a good shot). And blends are not better than single origins and vice versa, it's really up to what taste you prefer. Each has it's own place. And I personally believe espresso shouldn't be drunk with anything especially sugar, you drink it to appreciate the bean and sugar drastically changes the taste profile a lot. I once made an espresso for a customer after calibrating the machine, and he told me it tasted sour after he drank it (he added sugar), and mind you the blend was rather dark and not in the least bit acidic except maybe the finish. I had to try it myself to believe it.

 

[n0d3]

i still dun get it why u quoted us and say "HALLO..."

I think I'm just addressing points in general and not anyone in particular (the previous posts) and hello seemed polite.

 

[n0d3]

Actually no good reason to maintain any fixed dosing except for convenience or until you are very sure you prefer the taste from a standard dosed or from an updose.

I generally like an updose but I regularly experiment with 15g to 18g especially when trying out new blends.

I usually maintain a fixed dose just for consistency so I can isolate the problem with my shot (grind size, distribution, tamping, although admittedly tamping has the least greatest impact on extraction as long as it's consistent, check out Scott Rao's book). I measure out the grinds using a scale with my portafilter.

Scott Rao Coffee Books | Instructional Coffee Making Books By Scott Rao

Hmmm for me don't have to change grinder setting everyday to get the correct flow. More like after every 5 days then can really see a difference and need to grind finer. But usually I finish a bag in less than a week.

The difference could be due to inconsistent distribution or even brew boiler temp. If I recall u are using a Silvia? Need to do reverse temp surfing, flushing or pid to get the correct brewing temp. My Silvia will gush out STEAM with a lot of pressure when I immediately flush after the heater has turned off.

I also feel once the bean is 14 days post roast then it harder to get more consistent inter shot results. Not sure why. But could be the presence of co2 in the bean for fresh coffees helps with the flow rate maybe.

Yup, the bean is a hydrophilic product and it absorbs moisture as it ages. Further more it "degasses", releasing CO2 as it ages so it definitely affects your extraction, don't think it's due to the machine (not that big of a factor). Try extracting a really fresh roast and you can see the espresso is very "fizzy". Flavours tend to peak around 7-10 days (you mentioned this in a previous post).

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

Chemex will taste inherently different because of the paper, there is a "two-pass" due to the folds, more oils are absorbed, you'll get a cleaner taste (so unless you're using perhaps African coffee i.e. Ethiopians etc., there isn't much point). Both require some "skill" in terms of getting a good gooseneck kettle and controlling your pour. I find the Kalita wave is VERY forgiving and gives good results despite your pouring skills due to the flat base. The only place that sells it locally now is OZ Speciality Coffee (look for Will, he's pretty nice) and Nylon.

Ic. Didn't realize they use a folded filter. I suppose the kalita wave filters will retain more oil compared to a v60 because of the many pleats in the filter too.

I think I'll go with a metal kalita first. The Chemex is just too large. I can use the metal one during travel too with my metal Porlex for a durable combo.

I use a preheated old chipped French press when making 1 cup for v60 as I find my bueno kettle actually still has a very fast flow for a small coffee bed for 1 cup brewing.

 

[n0d3]

ehhhh i dunno BIG names unfortunately. nor i have goose-neck kettle

my pour over cup is from diaso, my paper is from supermarket shelf

first i "draw" a circle with my smallest noose pot i can find at home, wait until i smell sth...and i wolsly continue draw circles ard the pour over.

I still trying to learn control my speed....

Invest in a good goose-neck, helps you to control your speed a lot! It's expensive (50-70$) but it's worth every penny! I suggest getting a V60 (plastic) because it's cheap (less than $10), and perhaps a good scale (0.1 accuracy) and thermometer). There are various schools of thought on how to pour with a V60 but basically what you want to get is a nice conical shape of grounds vs. a flat bed, but the V60 you require a really good technique (which suits you since you seem to be quite interested in the pour). But there are a 101 ways to do this, so if you find a method gives you optimal results, stick to it.

By far the most interesting one I've seen is this, very unorthodox and IMO very hard to do consistently, but he gets fairly good TDS results so...

Hario V60 Pour Over Method - by Matt Perger - YouTube

 

[n0d3]

Ic. Didn't realize they use a folded filter. I suppose the kalita wave filters will retain more oil compared to a v60 because of the many pleats in the filter too.

I think I'll go with a metal kalita first. The Chemex is just too large. I can use the metal one during travel too with my metal Porlex for a durable combo.

I use a preheated old chipped French press when making 1 cup for v60 as I find my bueno kettle actually still has a very fast flow for a small coffee bed for 1 cup brewing.

Kalita has two sizes, get the bigger "185" size because apparently the paper filters are easier to sit when you want to prewet it. I just got a metal one but I'm having trouble getting a satisfactory pour, still working on it!

*the "fold" for the chemex I was referring to the actual folding of the filter so it's kinda like 2 ply, the pleats of a Kalita are actual pleats! Don't think it affects the oil absorbtion.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

Hello, WRT the article Intel posted, well Italians love it the way they make it, fine. It's cultural, just like how kopi-O will always be a main staple here in Singapore/Asia. But to me, most robustas and the way they are roasted for kopi-O etc. just tastes like burnt rubber. I just find third wave coffee inherently more interesting (note, I didn't use more right, I just said more interesting) because you get lots of subtle flavours from coffee whether it's espresso or handbrew and you get to experience what the bean has to offer instead of plain ol' heavy body, chocolate/nuttiness etc. And it's exciting because the roasters work with the farmers to get the kind of beans/quality they want, read "God in a Cup", it really shows you the extent the big 3 (Intelligentsia, Stumptown, Blue Bottle) went to get a more interesting cup of coffee.

I have nothing against heavy body espresso that just tastes like how coffee would taste like, but I feel that it'll be a waste not to try other varieties not from Sumatra or Costa Rica (i.e. the really flora Africans), even from local roasters (but pity most espressos here are made for the local palate which is still evolving, so they tend to be pretty 'safe' in a sense, and you'll hardly find any single origins).

As for things like Blue Mountain/Kopi Luwak etc. I find it's more commercialisation/branding than anything (much like the article where Intel posted showing how it's mostly machine sales that drive the coffee industry in Italy). It all boils down to taste. And even though you buy some fancy coffee from a speciality coffee place that lists origin, farm, lot, altitude, type of processing etc., JUST because it's traceable DOES NOT mean it's good and vice versa.

The nylon coffee used to have a Ethiopian single origin. I don't think they are back in singapore yet. Last I heard they are in Nicaragua or some Central American country to source for good beans.

I agree listing the estate may not mean the coffee is good but it certainly is a two edge sword to the estate because their reputation is at stake. If it's bad people may not want to buy again if it's good people will request for it and prices may go up. This coffee estates have a higher motivation to ensure their crop is top quality and not hide behind the anonymity of a "single origin".

I think listing the processing is also interesting and would serve to educate the buyer. Processing methods can make a huge difference in the finished product (wet vs dry processed).

 

[n0d3]

The nylon coffee used to have a Ethiopian single origin. I don't think they are back in singapore yet. Last I heard they are in Nicaragua or some Central American country to source for good beans.

I agree listing the estate may not mean the coffee is good but it certainly is a two edge sword to the estate because their reputation is at stake. If it's bad people may not want to buy again if it's good people will request for it and prices may go up. This coffee estates have a higher motivation to ensure their crop is top quality and not hide behind the anonymity of a "single origin".

I think listing the processing is also interesting and would serve to educate the buyer. Processing methods can make a huge difference in the finished product (wet vs dry processed).

Yup, Dennis and Jiamin went to origin for a while. They are really good roasters IMHO and they tend to roast light which I like. But their coffee in general takes a lot of skill to pull.

Yup! Definitely a two edged-sword, provides a lot of useful information (all the stuff you mentioned above), just wanted to point out the fact that it does not necessarily mean it's good. Even some good roasters have bad batches, haha. But yes, totally agreed.

 

[derazor]

So happy that this thread is alive.

Espresso is recommended to use blended due to robusta giving the crema?

 

[n0d3]

So happy that this thread is alive.

Espresso is recommended to use blended due to robusta giving the crema?

As in, SOME roasters have added a bit of robusta into the blend to give it that extra crema. It's not necessary to add robusta to get good crema.

When people refer to a particular roast as being "blended" it just means that there are different beans (usually different origin, not mixing arabica/robusta). You can see it on the bag as something like 50% Washed Guatemala, 50% Colombia etc. (with added details about farm, processing etc.). And when we refer to single origin (SO) it just means that there is only one type of bean (usually filter/handbrew coffee tends to be SO, espresso tends to be blended).

The reason behind blending is because the availability of coffee varies depending on the harvest/quality of the bean/taste etc. so therefore it's hard to produce a specific/consistent espresso if you just use one type of bean or the same combination of beans. Blending allows you get a consistent flavour throughout the entire year, and customers won't complain that their coffee suddenly tastes different in June compared to March. It can be blended preroast or postroast (blending before or after roasted). So it allows you to "blend" to get a specific flavour regardless of the type of beans you're using.

Single origin (for espresso) tends to showcase the specific taste of that particular bean, which can be good if you're adventurous but it's harder to extract because if you're off the mark, you get a crappy tasting shot (compared to a blend where there is a wider range of flavours due to the fact that each bean contributes a single kinda taste) so even if you miss something you'll hit something else, does that make sense?

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

ehhhh i dunno BIG names unfortunately. nor i have goose-neck kettle

my pour over cup is from diaso, my paper is from supermarket shelf

first i "draw" a circle with my smallest noose pot i can find at home, wait until i smell sth...and i wolsly continue draw circles ard the pour over.

I still trying to learn control my speed....

Oh yah I forgot about daiso one. Looks cheap and good. Can I ask how did you get the coffeebaron bean? Shipping via air from Australia?

I've wanted to try the legendary intelligentsia black cat but no idea where to get it fresh here. Taka basement have but I think it's months old.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

Kalita has two sizes, get the bigger "185" size because apparently the paper filters are easier to sit when you want to prewet it. I just got a metal one but I'm having trouble getting a satisfactory pour, still working on it!

*the "fold" for the chemex I was referring to the actual folding of the filter so it's kinda like 2 ply, the pleats of a Kalita are actual pleats! Don't think it affects the oil absorbtion.

Thanks for the tip on the kalita!

 

[n0d3]

Oh yah I forgot about daiso one. Looks cheap and good. Can I ask how did you get the coffeebaron bean? Shipping via air from Australia?

I've wanted to try the legendary intelligentsia black cat but no idea where to get it fresh here. Taka basement have but I think it's months old.

Intelligentsia has notoriously expensive shipping as well, unless you have friends overseas it's not worth the time and money to ship it over. They had their new Maragesha (cross between Maragogype which is known for it's yield/it's easy to grow and the Geisha for it's flavour) which was super interesting since it's unique/limited release but the shipping costs were just too great.

If you're gonna order from AU I suggest trying Seven Seeds (light roast, may not be suited for your palate), Axil Coffee (they roast darker the rest, same with Toby's but Toby's you can buy it locally as they have a local roasting facility), Market Lane (light as well), Small Batch. Not sure which of these ship overseas though.

Alternatively you can try ordering from Square Mile (UK), owned by James Hoffman (his blog has a lot of interesting articles, can give it a go), shipping isn't that bad. OZ Speciality Coffee at Sin Ming brings in coffee from all over the place if you wanna try different handbrews, gotta see what he brings in though.

Speaking of which, he stocks/distributes Pacamara (Thailand), which is actually quite syrupy and full bodied on espresso (Roadster blend) so it may suit some of you guys, it's quite nice. Pacamara has intense roasting facilities, almost clean room conditions.

 

[n0d3]

i stay there mah...

if i go there again next time, i take photo for u...i actually wan to try syphon fliter...i wonder what the taste like ~~~~

i try cold drip and it is very refreshing for summer

You're in VIC or SA? Grab yourself some beans/brewing equipment from Market Lane, they use the Bee House which is a great alternative to the V60. Their beans are top notch, tasty! (Market Lane Coffee - Specialty Coffee – Melbourne)

Syphon is pretty hard to do, I hardly see anybody doing it in VIC, never tried it myself but I heard you can get pretty good results if you do it right.