Housing Dilemma

[kyteo79]

ok..i give up and rest my case. Good luck on hugging that milo tin can.

to ts, do what you will and don't listen to those old men blindly. Plan carefully, access your situation and industry, your capability objectively....invest aggressively & smartly and diversify your investments so that your mortgage is not 100% rely on the monthly salary like 90% of the singapore paupers.

today is 2017 ... we dun keep money in tins but offshore accounts.

Time to off our computers and go to farm and grow rice loh ...

 

[kyteo79]

Bro, you might be old in terms of age, but resorting to name calling and plain insults simply shows the level of maturity that you have. Chill.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, this is an open forum. You can learn to agree to disagree with this point. Keep the discussion relevant, ok?

Cheers.

I read an article ... those who are rich ... those really rich will have a aggressive behavior which might explain that case. However i have met many whom are slick and chill ...

Some are on the path are lost in the direction thats why ...

Again i repeat when time is up, you surrender your NRIC ... go down earth ... you got zillions dollars also like that ...

Life is not about debts, rich, etc .. but about happiness.

If you lack that; on the way/path of chasing to be rich.. you might have failed somewhere. Go back and get it back will make ones life better.

 

[jouhyo]

obviously, most poor people think in binary terms....

i.e. No debt = good, debt = no good.

How's that working for them?

The word is 'debt management'...keyword 'management'.

Of course i am not telling TS to accumulate debts that he can't afford or over-leverage himself but some of the old man circle jerk replies here gave me brain cancer that i thought i am in EDMW...no debt is good? Tell me how can someone get any sort of credit rating with no debt at all? If you guys idea of advising people is to ask them to be like you..then i rest my case.

I can understand if you are using the term "debt management" for the purpose of generating more income. But TS is borrowing money as expenditure to buy house to stay. Meaning paying interest each month to the bank so your reason of having debt is illogical here.

Resorting to tell people "hugging that milo tin can" just because they dont agree with you proves how credible you are.

 

[kyteo79]

I can understand if you are using the term "debt management" for the purpose of generating more income. But TS is borrowing money as expenditure to buy house to stay. Meaning paying interest each month to the bank so your reason of having debt is illogical here.

Resorting to tell people "hugging that milo tin can" just because they dont agree with you proves how credible you are.

Trust the rich
Trust ali baba and 40 thieves

Dun be angry when we got milo to drink...
Many people no food and no hot drink.. we should be thankful.

Here is forum many can be saudi prince ... i am just a poor man but i am very happy when i see my happy life and zoom zoom at 40 tiang or dun even need to have debt or MANAGE DEBT...

Impt let be focus what we want and be realistic cos i hum ji... to be living with debts ... if i dun have my reserves ..

 

[iphone1s]

lets see if the legal intern replies.

 

[justforipad]

Hallo ... he drive lambo use cash full cash ... u use iphone ? he use veratus .. u in hdb slums ? he take max grants get bto for his maid. he use full cash for overseas property like he use full cash for his billion stock portfolio.
++

what talk you ? go eat french fries lah ...

now school holiday

+++
if ts is in legal industry there will be many expert liao ... headhunted so he is the cream of corp. he dun have people to ask meh ? he know if he ask his mentors, sure kana laughed at ..
++

i fail maths in school so

year 1 - 3,500 x 13 months = 45,500 per year
year 2 - 3,500 + 15% = 3500+525 x 13 months = 52,325 per year
year 3 - 60,173.75
year 4 - 69199.81
year 5 - 79,579.78
Total : S$ 306,778.35
AVerage of 5 years : S$61,355.66 per year or about S$ 5,112.98 per months (bss 12 months) - did not basis it on 13 months on average but actually you are getting lesser.

Assuming what economist is right or bank or money expert : 1/3 goes to house = $1,704
CPF : assuming 1k per month means you left with S$ 4112.98

CAR : you want what car ? laywer drive bmw ? z4 or m3 ? installment ?
assume 3k ? no no no say 1.5k lah

Parents : 2k
Parent in law : ???
insurance : 700 per month ?


Balance : S$ ???

3.5 k per pax is take home pay bro.

Totally agree with you on credit rating. If a person borrows a million dollars, and pays back promptly, there is some credibility about him.

But I guess you could have over looked on a simple point which most mentioned here. TS claims on the confidence of an increment of 17% annually, and being in the legal industry being stable. With a minimal 7k, they are thinking they could afford a EC along side by selling whatever stocks they have. But on their next post, they die die now wanted a 4room BTO at a PREMIUM location.

Now, having said all that, what is their confidence based on? What are the concerns that our members have raised?

Should they be retrenched, they still can afford the unit.

But in TS's case, retrenchment is never a word in their dictionary.

To be honest, we will be relying 100% of our CPF monthly contributions to pay off the mortgage. Should either of us gets retrenched, we will not be able to pay off the mortgage on our own and will have to borrow from our families or tapping into whatever's left in our endowment funds. I believe that there's no much left in there now having spent substantial sums of money for our education.

I can understand if you are using the term "debt management" for the purpose of generating more income. But TS is borrowing money as expenditure to buy house to stay. Meaning paying interest each month to the bank so your reason of having debt is illogical here.

Resorting to tell people "hugging that milo tin can" just because they dont agree with you proves how credible you are.

Please elaborate? I'm a little lost here, don't most people take on loans for their housing?

 

[justforipad]

ok..i give up and rest my case. Good luck on hugging that milo tin can.

to ts, do what you will and don't listen to those old men blindly. Plan carefully, access your situation and industry, your capability objectively....invest aggressively & smartly and diversify your investments so that your mortgage is not 100% rely on the monthly salary like 90% of the singapore paupers.

Thank you, will heed your advice

I am glad to serve alongside with you in defending whatever that is left in Singapore without being tainted with foreign blood.

However, what you posted and what TS posted are from 2 absolutely different angles.

Having debt is healthy. To a certain extend, it could be. Such as making money work for you. I am totally for you in this area.

What TS mention is in the confidence of their increment, job prospects and their current financial situation. A credit card is good, yes, no doubt, I can gain points and free gifts and a discount even, at some meals with a credit card. To say that we are using future money, that's half truth. If a person truly use the card when he CANNOT PAY IT OFF IMMEDIATELY, yes. that's not good debt.

If anyone have 400k in their pocket right now, lets use simple logic, will they want to pay 425k just for the interest alone? or they pay 400k immediately? it works the same for a house that cost 425k and a curry puff for 80cents.

I appreciate your input here, but I guess its abit off tangent with regards to TS's intentions.

Using your example, if the total I've to pay is 425 spread over 30 years, obviously I will elect for this option even if I already have 400k in my pockets.

sorry but i hate to burst the bubble of many here but manageable debt IS a good thing.

Financial freedom doesn't mean no debt. It means you know how to manage your finance properly. If you guys hated debt so much, might as well throw away all your credit cards and put all your cash in the milo tin and under your pillow. This type of thinking is my ah ma type of thinking....i.e. don't trust insurance, don't trust bankers, don't having debt, don't like credit cards, prefer to earn your pitiful interest rates in POSB than investing.....no wonder you guys are poor. Because this is 'poor's man thinking'. Everything must play so safe and refuse to venture into any 'risk'. If you don't like risk, then don't complain about being poor. Keep on dreaming about getting rich by striking lottery, a poor man's game.

Before anyone say i am a youngster, i'm no longer required by SAF to serve ICT or IPPT so you can probably guess my age.

To quote from Jack Ma:

Thank you, seems like you are one of the few that understood me completely. Apologies to those who have misunderstood my points as perhaps I wasn't being clear enough

Here's a few tips from me regarding your questions.

1) Housing Type: 4-room in mature, either bidadari OR geylang are both highly competitive. I will be going for geylang as it's right beside the MRT, but choose your poison. Both are relatively close to CBD if via public transport. (circle line) We might even be neighbours in the near future

2) Downpayment: Since you and your partner are below 30, i think you are eligible for staggered deposits (5% at point of choosing, 5% at point of collection).

Go read this link for more info. http://www.hdb.gov.sg/cs/infoweb/residential/buying-a-flat/new/staggered-downpayment-scheme

Hope this alleviates some of the downward pressure on your finances.

3) Grants: I do not think you have any chances, with your current state of employment for any grants. HDB requires a full 12 months of employment of any one party at the point of application to be eligible for grant consideration. For example, if you were to apply for the May 2017 exercise, you will have to provide NOAs and / or CPF contribution histories from May 2016 - May 2017. Hope this is clear. More info is on the HDB grant website.

Honestly, if i were you, I will forget about applying for the grants - a huge waste of time.

Liquidate your stock holdings (if you have 25 - 30k worth at least), and hold them in a FD for now. You'll need to pay it 3-6 months from the point of successful balloting. (Late 2017)

4) Completion time: No way your flat is ready in May 2021. The average construction time is 6 years for BTOs. Looking at the newest clementi launch, it is forecasted to be TOP-ed in Q1 2023. You can prepare for a Q3 / Q4 2023 should you be successful in the next exercise in May.

You might have to discuss with your partner to see if this fits into your timelines.

Good luck!

Thank you, best advice in this thread. It's disheartening to see some of the replies here but I guess it's from their personal bad experience in society.

 

[eternal-snow]

Rule of thumb:

Your Total Debt Servicing Ratio should not exceed 60% and your housing instalment should not exceed 30% of your monthly gross income.

http://www.mas.gov.sg/~/media/MAS/R.../Guidelines/TDSR_Guidelines_Refin_10Feb14.pdf - Total Debt Servicing Ratio

[edit] As CPF also decreases overtime, it is better to pay off the housing loan before you turn 55..

 

[Yevin227]

Thank you, will heed your advice



Using your example, if the total I've to pay is 425 spread over 30 years, obviously I will elect for this option even if I already have 400k in my pockets.



Thank you, seems like you are one of the few that understood me completely. Apologies to those who have misunderstood my points as perhaps I wasn't being clear enough

Thank you, best advice in this thread. It's disheartening to see some of the replies here but I guess it's from their personal bad experience in society.

You're welcome! Personally, I'm also going for 4-room mature estate, as my and my spouses' parents both live in mature estate, so bobian... We don't want to live too far also because we don't own a car

Convenience is also important but also must balance with your risk-return ratio. To me, as someone in business, time is money. I won't go for a mature estate but far away from my workplace, or conversely a non-mature, but far from my workplace kind of location. Choose wisely. Maybe we'll be lucky? Haha

If you ask me, our age is our advantage here. Being below 30, the smartest thing I've seen my peers do so far is to take the longest 25 years loan, and accumulate as much monies in CPF and Cash during the interval between collecting key and choosing a flat. Once the flat is here, wipe out your CPF OA (HDB will auto) and you can choose to reduce your loan amounts by paying cash to lower the amount that you have to borrow. That way, you pay lesser every month, with the residual going into CPF OA, gaining secured interest every month

Every year, if you get bonuses (assuming 2-3 months), save and make a capital repayment of $20-30k or however much you can afford. The faster you clear the loan, the better. Aim to do it within 10 - 15 years of getting the flat. You'll be maybe late 30s? From then on, you can use more money to enjoy life and do what you like to do with that money.

Hope this helps.

 

[justforipad]

You're welcome! Personally, I'm also going for 4-room mature estate, as my and my spouses' parents both live in mature estate, so bobian... We don't want to live too far also because we don't own a car

Convenience is also important but also must balance with your risk-return ratio. To me, as someone in business, time is money. I won't go for a mature estate but far away from my workplace, or conversely a non-mature, but far from my workplace kind of location. Choose wisely. Maybe we'll be lucky? Haha

If you ask me, our age is our advantage here. Being below 30, the smartest thing I've seen my peers do so far is to take the longest 25 years loan, and accumulate as much monies in CPF and Cash during the interval between collecting key and choosing a flat. Once the flat is here, wipe out your CPF OA (HDB will auto) and you can choose to reduce your loan amounts by paying cash to lower the amount that you have to borrow. That way, you pay lesser every month, with the residual going into CPF OA, gaining secured interest every month

Every year, if you get bonuses (assuming 2-3 months), save and make a capital repayment of $20-30k or however much you can afford. The faster you clear the loan, the better. Aim to do it within 10 - 15 years of getting the flat. You'll be maybe late 30s? From then on, you can use more money to enjoy life and do what you like to do with that money.

Hope this helps.

a little out of topic, but don't you think that putting that cash in another nest, say blue chip stocks provide a better return through dividends and of course, take prudent steps to ensure minimal capital depreciation?

At least then the cash is fluid no?

Cos assuming I put cash into CPF yearly, I will never be able to touch or see those cash ever again unless I live to a ripe old age?

 

[Nofear40]

lets see if the legal intern replies.

So he and his gf are future lawyers
But how does he hit $160k combined OA in 3 years?
Amazing

 

[Nofear40]

3.5 k per pax is take home pay bro.



To be honest, we will be relying 100% of our CPF monthly contributions to pay off the mortgage. Should either of us gets retrenched, we will not be able to pay off the mortgage on our own and will have to borrow from our families or tapping into whatever's left in our endowment funds. I believe that there's no much left in there now having spent substantial sums of money for our education.



Please elaborate? I'm a little lost here, don't most people take on loans for their housing?

Sounds like he has strong family support...
I recall my Uni friends went for a 2 bedder condo after working for less than 3 years as they have F&M sponsorship
That would change the whole equation, I feel
For me, my first place is planned with one person's OA contribution
And a few years after I get my place, employers CPF contribution rate drops and never back to where it was before
Debts are not necessarily bad
But it is critical to your well-being that you have some buffer - be it from parents/ your own $$
Are you getting a car or have family planning soon?
Also need to take that into consideration

 

[Nofear40]

a little out of topic, but don't you think that putting that cash in another nest, say blue chip stocks provide a better return through dividends and of course, take prudent steps to ensure minimal capital depreciation?

At least then the cash is fluid no?

Cos assuming I put cash into CPF yearly, I will never be able to touch or see those cash ever again unless I live to a ripe old age?

If you clear your first loan, only need 20% down payment for the 2nd property

 

[Yevin227]

a little out of topic, but don't you think that putting that cash in another nest, say blue chip stocks provide a better return through dividends and of course, take prudent steps to ensure minimal capital depreciation?

At least then the cash is fluid no?

Cos assuming I put cash into CPF yearly, I will never be able to touch or see those cash ever again unless I live to a ripe old age?

Off-topic: Yes, on paper, putting money into CPF might seem stupid, as there are better investment products out there (not just blue chips) that provide a better return as compared to CPF's OA. Imo, it's how your spread your risk across a portfolio of assets to get the maximum return across your portfolio.

CPF's OA interest is low, but it is (almost) risk-free. Govt won't default on your CPF's money, provided you live to ripe old age la (this one no one can tell) or if the govt doesn't continue to shift the goalposts further upwards. If you die, then too bad. if policy changes, also too bad. Life is like this. You can plan all you want, but when death comes, you only can prepare yourself to take it.

Nonetheless, what I'm trying to say is that when you're buying a public housing, it's the purchase of the subsidized 99-year lease, not the property or the building. The property and land still belongs to HDB (i.e. govt.) The best strategy is to pay it up asap, then think further ahead what you want to do in life. Sell it off, get a private property, it all depends on how much you can afford at that point in time. But at least when crisis hits, you got a fully-paid pigeon hole over your head. Anyway, sg property always worth something because we are land-scarce. It doesn't really matter where you buy, you won't lose or gain much in the short-medium run.

Side-note: Have you ever seen average income people get extremely rich via stocks, bonds, etc? These people are few and far between. Why? It's all about re-investing back a certain 'spread' into another product with a better return. If you have little capital, you earn a small spread. Simple as that. Don't forget about the risk that accompanies every investment decision. You'll never really get truly 'rich' but you'll get there, slowly.

During my time in business school and now, my friends always say this - you need to gain capital: slowly, steadily and make wise maneuvers in the market to become rich. Buy, sell, buy again. Whatever floats your boat. Trust me, if you manage to die with at least three fully-paid properties (private) in Singapore, your descendants will reap the benefits of your decisions today.

I certainly hope that I can. Haha.

But first - I'll take a reasonably-priced, solid and down-to-earth roof over my head paid up in 10 years first. Everything else, can wait. Hope this helps.

 

[Raffles88]

cpf contribution rate does reduce depending on govt decision. Example in 1986,1999 and 2003.

 

[Gixxerfied]

And O/A contribution percentage drops once u hit 35 and every 5 years after that..

 

[Yevin227]

And O/A contribution percentage drops once u hit 35 and every 5 years after that..

All the more reason to try to clear off the loans ASAP!

 

[iphone1s]

All the more reason to try to clear off the loans ASAP!

iphone1s wrote:
I am glad to serve alongside with you in defending whatever that is left in Singapore without being tainted with foreign blood.

However, what you posted and what TS posted are from 2 absolutely different angles.

Having debt is healthy. To a certain extend, it could be. Such as making money work for you. I am totally for you in this area.

What TS mention is in the confidence of their increment, job prospects and their current financial situation. A credit card is good, yes, no doubt, I can gain points and free gifts and a discount even, at some meals with a credit card. To say that we are using future money, that's half truth. If a person truly use the card when he CANNOT PAY IT OFF IMMEDIATELY, yes. that's not good debt.

If anyone have 400k in their pocket right now, lets use simple logic, will they want to pay 425k just for the interest alone? or they pay 400k immediately? it works the same for a house that cost 425k and a curry puff for 80cents.

I appreciate your input here, but I guess its abit off tangent with regards to TS's intentions.





TS reply: Using your example, if the total I've to pay is 425 spread over 30 years, obviously I will elect for this option even if I already have 400k in my pockets.


nuff said.. different wavelength

 

[kyteo79]

Off-topic: Yes, on paper, putting money into CPF might seem stupid, as there are better investment products out there (not just blue chips) that provide a better return as compared to CPF's OA. Imo, it's how your spread your risk across a portfolio of assets to get the maximum return across your portfolio.

CPF's OA interest is low, but it is (almost) risk-free. Govt won't default on your CPF's money, provided you live to ripe old age la (this one no one can tell) or if the govt doesn't continue to shift the goalposts further upwards. If you die, then too bad. if policy changes, also too bad. Life is like this. You can plan all you want, but when death comes, you only can prepare yourself to take it.

Nonetheless, what I'm trying to say is that when you're buying a public housing, it's the purchase of the subsidized 99-year lease, not the property or the building. The property and land still belongs to HDB (i.e. govt.) The best strategy is to pay it up asap, then think further ahead what you want to do in life. Sell it off, get a private property, it all depends on how much you can afford at that point in time. But at least when crisis hits, you got a fully-paid pigeon hole over your head. Anyway, sg property always worth something because we are land-scarce. It doesn't really matter where you buy, you won't lose or gain much in the short-medium run.

Side-note: Have you ever seen average income people get extremely rich via stocks, bonds, etc? These people are few and far between. Why? It's all about re-investing back a certain 'spread' into another product with a better return. If you have little capital, you earn a small spread. Simple as that. Don't forget about the risk that accompanies every investment decision. You'll never really get truly 'rich' but you'll get there, slowly.

During my time in business school and now, my friends always say this - you need to gain capital: slowly, steadily and make wise maneuvers in the market to become rich. Buy, sell, buy again. Whatever floats your boat. Trust me, if you manage to die with at least three fully-paid properties (private) in Singapore, your descendants will reap the benefits of your decisions today.

I certainly hope that I can. Haha.

But first - I'll take a reasonably-priced, solid and down-to-earth roof over my head paid up in 10 years first. Everything else, can wait. Hope this helps.

KNN ... learn for this guy lah ... lawyer beh ? no?
then be down to earth like this member here. I like his down to earth style.
why i never bash him ? dun be like me always bash TS ...

No need to teach TS too much cos his glass is filled with water. his set of belief is right ...

i fail in my ways and growing up as a happy failure. but bank tellers & private bankers need to extend hand out to shake & greet me whom is holding to a milo tin can ...

I am old man liao ... so time is against me... but who cares be happy and reduce your debts as much as possible.

 

[kyteo79]

iphone1s wrote:
I am glad to serve alongside with you in defending whatever that is left in Singapore without being tainted with foreign blood.

However, what you posted and what TS posted are from 2 absolutely different angles.

Having debt is healthy. To a certain extend, it could be. Such as making money work for you. I am totally for you in this area.

What TS mention is in the confidence of their increment, job prospects and their current financial situation. A credit card is good, yes, no doubt, I can gain points and free gifts and a discount even, at some meals with a credit card. To say that we are using future money, that's half truth. If a person truly use the card when he CANNOT PAY IT OFF IMMEDIATELY, yes. that's not good debt.

If anyone have 400k in their pocket right now, lets use simple logic, will they want to pay 425k just for the interest alone? or they pay 400k immediately? it works the same for a house that cost 425k and a curry puff for 80cents.

I appreciate your input here, but I guess its abit off tangent with regards to TS's intentions.





TS reply: Using your example, if the total I've to pay is 425 spread over 30 years, obviously I will elect for this option even if I already have 400k in my pockets.


nuff said.. different wavelength

U iphone - he andriod operating system ...

no money but wana seem to have money and own properties and then have cars and all the mei meis. then oversea properties and buy oil fieldd and plantation.

same school schools and play monopoly.

waste breathe ... if kopitiam talk i tell him to start proper savings ..