jogging and motivation thread

[milkiee]

The average women running 15 minutes slower than the average men is quite impressive when the leading women runs 23 minutes slower than the leading men. It goes to show the women take running more seriously if they do decide to go on a marathon.

---

Also, there's this race, Run for Light

https://www.justrunlah.com/race/run-for-light-2025/

April 12, 2025

Evening 10km > Will most likely go for this and clock a fast time

so how was your experience with TAO? did it help you reach your target? would you continue?

i'm going to sign up for a year's worth of Runna in January to try try.

 

[Ender]

so how was your experience with TAO? did it help you reach your target? would you continue?

i'm going to sign up for a year's worth of Runna in January to try try.

I think you are replying to me although you quoted Kuudere. LOL.

I didn't achieve my goal, and I believe TAO's philosophy of conducting more back-to-back training with less mileage per single run, as opposed to other plans that require a run longer than 32km during the peak phase, may be a factor. This time, TAO's longest run was only 24.5km at peak. I had a feeling that wouldn't suffice, but the TAO coach assured me it was sufficient, citing a study that lower mileage with more frequent back-to-back runs is beneficial for casual runners. Consequently, I suspect this is why my legs failed around the 32km mark. I was maintaining a good pace in zone 2/3, over 5:35, until about 27km when I started to feel leg fatigue, which worried me. True enough, at 32km, my legs reached their limit, and I had to alternate between walking and running from that point on.

But the positive part is my LT1 has improved significantly, and I noticed it during tapering. LT1 prior to training, was around 5:56 min/km. After training, it was around 5:40min/km.

Do note, that I already used TAO for last year SCSM and sees it's benefit of lesser single run mileage during peak with back to back training. I managed to run the whole course last year without the legs giving up, san the sheare bridge, But then, Tao gave me two single runs at 27km. But my pace was slower than this year, as my LT1 then was around 5:56-6min.km.

Note , both last year and this year resulted in a PB from a timing I had hovering around 4:35 prior to TAO.

So next year, I am continuing with TAO, but I will watch out for the peak phase and increase that mileage to 27km myself if TAO is not giving me that 27klm single run training.

Good luck with Runna, do let us know how the training like and how different is it with TAO.

 

[milkiee]

I think you are replying to me although you quoted Kuudere. LOL.

I didn't achieve my goal, and I believe TAO's philosophy of conducting more back-to-back training with less mileage per single run, as opposed to other plans that require a run longer than 32km during the peak phase, may be a factor. This time, TAO's longest run was only 24.5km at peak. I had a feeling that wouldn't suffice, but the TAO coach assured me it was sufficient, citing a study that lower mileage with more frequent back-to-back runs is beneficial for casual runners. Consequently, I suspect this is why my legs failed around the 32km mark. I was maintaining a good pace in zone 2/3, over 5:35, until about 27km when I started to feel leg fatigue, which worried me. True enough, at 32km, my legs reached their limit, and I had to alternate between walking and running from that point on.

But the positive part is my LT1 has improved significantly, and I noticed it during tapering. LT1 prior to training, was around 5:56 min/km. After training, it was around 5:40min/km.

Do note, that I already used TAO for last year SCSM and sees it's benefit of lesser single run mileage during peak with back to back training. I managed to run the whole course last year without the legs giving up, san the sheare bridge, But then, Tao gave me two single runs at 27km. But my pace was slower than this year, as my LT1 then was around 5:56-6min.km.

Note , both last year and this year resulted in a PB from a timing I had hovering around 4:35 prior to TAO.

So next year, I am continuing with TAO, but I will watch out for the peak phase and increase that mileage to 27km myself if TAO is not giving me that 27klm single run training.

Good luck with Runna, do let us know how the training like and how different is it with TAO.

thanks for the detailed feedback. yeah paiseh @Kuudere i tagged you by accident lol.

how is the feeling of LT1 is like? is it like conversational pace without feeling out of breathe?
garmin recommends me to do base training at 139bpm, whereas my zone 2 is at 139bpm to 154bpm.
the lower HR definitely feels a lot easier than say 150bpm. so confused.

it seems like i can't know what is right without doing a lab test to find LT1 and LT2.

 

[WussRedXLi]

Heh.... i run only ~ 4.45min/km my joints/bones whatever start to give up just below 20k. By the 3rd run could really feel it (15, 17 and then 18.8k). Started to feel a bit of pain in areas where i have not had pain before, eg metatarsal bones at the front of the feel. Who knows where else might pop up.

A bit risky injury wise so gave up longer distance training esp since AHM 2024 10k got cancelled. No use for longer distance running, anyway dont have that much time to spare for running and not that useful for my race distances of 3-5k for dualthlons.

 

[Ender]

thanks for the detailed feedback. yeah paiseh @Kuudere i tagged you by accident lol.

how is the feeling of LT1 is like? is it like conversational pace without feeling out of breathe?
garmin recommends me to do base training at 139bpm, whereas my zone 2 is at 139bpm to 154bpm.
the lower HR definitely feels a lot easier than say 150bpm. so confused.

it seems like i can't know what is right without doing a lab test to find LT1 and LT2.

LT2 easier to estimate outside lab. Lots of generic test procedure on youtube or internet or use your Garmin built in LTHR.

LT1 is harder to estimate outside lab test. But using definition of holding steady state running over a long duration like forever. I am using two metrics to determine it, i,e. pace and HR. You can only compare post run with runs longer than 90 minutes, my own personal guide of long duration.
I find out in the past some of my steady state pace runs hover around 5:56 min/km I can maintain a flat line HR for more than 2 hours or more. If i run a 5:50 steady pace, I will see a gradual increase trend in HR, so I know this run is not steady state. So over a number of comparison, I determined 5:56 or slightly lower Is very close to my LT1.

Training very close to LT1 is call Maximum Aerobic function, i.e you pushing your aerobic function, metabolic , circulatory or even muscle skeletal, to close to it max aerobic. Do it as base building, i,e, high weekly volume, your body will learn to adapt and super compensate it. More mitochondrial density and quality to burn fats efficiently. I really think we burn fats more efficiently that those sedentary people who do ketogenic diet, coz we train in higher burn mode. Circulatory wise, more capillaries into muscles. Muscle, skeletal wise, I feel is resilience to injuries in that intensities and duration.

 

[Jeremy1]

Did my first full marathon yesterday. No training except my daily 5km treadmill jogs.

Mostly walked the 42km but still made it well within the cut off time. Its doable!

Mostly walk still can make it

What's the timing ?

If base on your training, then I also can

 

[Kuudere]

New kiptum

I noticed his potential after he won the Kenyan Cross Country Championships

He has ran 5 sub-59 minute HMs before debuting marathon.

Put in the hard work and get an extremely fast marathon debut

so how was your experience with TAO? did it help you reach your target? would you continue?

i'm going to sign up for a year's worth of Runna in January to try try.

I only use that for base training and threshold run (long interval). Doesn't give much advice on short intervals or long runs.

I prefer to plan my own overall structure to tackle races because I run different events throughout the year.

thanks for the detailed feedback. yeah paiseh @Kuudere i tagged you by accident lol.

how is the feeling of LT1 is like? is it like conversational pace without feeling out of breathe?
garmin recommends me to do base training at 139bpm, whereas my zone 2 is at 139bpm to 154bpm.
the lower HR definitely feels a lot easier than say 150bpm. so confused.

it seems like i can't know what is right without doing a lab test to find LT1 and LT2.

LT1 >> is around the base pace that garmin recommends me (5.05 min/km)

It should feel comfortable to converse but at the same time need to focus a little.

Of course, if your mileage is not sufficient then eventually will hit the wall regardless.

Heh.... i run only ~ 4.45min/km my joints/bones whatever start to give up just below 20k. By the 3rd run could really feel it (15, 17 and then 18.8k). Started to feel a bit of pain in areas where i have not had pain before, eg metatarsal bones at the front of the feel. Who knows where else might pop up.

A bit risky injury wise so gave up longer distance training esp since AHM 2024 10k got cancelled. No use for longer distance running, anyway dont have that much time to spare for running and not that useful for my race distances of 3-5k for dualthlons.

I would slowly build up my long run mileage and run those slower if I were you.

Don't need to over-exert those especially if you aren't racing 21.1k. Use the long run as a way to build base for 5-10k

 

[ctan84]

thanks for the detailed feedback. yeah paiseh @Kuudere i tagged you by accident lol.

how is the feeling of LT1 is like? is it like conversational pace without feeling out of breathe?
garmin recommends me to do base training at 139bpm, whereas my zone 2 is at 139bpm to 154bpm.
the lower HR definitely feels a lot easier than say 150bpm. so confused.

it seems like i can't know what is right without doing a lab test to find LT1 and LT2.

This one depends on your fitness level one. For those new to running or just been running <9-12 mths, LT1 can end up being a brisk walking pace one. From a lactate concentration perspective which we measure in the lab, LT1 we usually put it at 2mmol/L (while LT2 usually ranges from 3 to 4.5 mmol/L).

 

[Kuudere]

LT2 easier to estimate outside lab. Lots of generic test procedure on youtube or internet or use your Garmin built in LTHR.

LT1 is harder to estimate outside lab test. But using definition of holding steady state running over a long duration like forever. I am using two metrics to determine it, i,e. pace and HR. You can only compare post run with runs longer than 90 minutes, my own personal guide of long duration.
I find out in the past some of my steady state pace runs hover around 5:56 min/km I can maintain a flat line HR for more than 2 hours or more. If i run a 5:50 steady pace, I will see a gradual increase trend in HR, so I know this run is not steady state. So over a number of comparison, I determined 5:56 or slightly lower Is very close to my LT1.

Training very close to LT1 is call Maximum Aerobic function, i.e you pushing your aerobic function, metabolic , circulatory or even muscle skeletal, to close to it max aerobic. Do it as base building, i,e, high weekly volume, your body will learn to adapt and super compensate it. More mitochondrial density and quality to burn fats efficiently. I really think we burn fats more efficiently that those sedentary people who do ketogenic diet, coz we train in higher burn mode. Circulatory wise, more capillaries into muscles. Muscle, skeletal wise, I feel is resilience to injuries in that intensities and duration.

I use the Macmillian calculator, put in my 10k current time and also as my goal time.

I look at easy runs for endurance pace and I take the upper limit (4:40) add the lower limit (5:16) and divide by two. That gives me 4:58. That pace is my base pace or LT1.

 

[winningeleven]

Hi. For those who run (obviously everyone here ) feel that running help to reduce high blood pressure?

I have higher blood pressure due to genetics in my family. My eldest brother who don't exercise regularly need to take medicine to lower his BP. Another elder brother who didnt take any medication and had ran a sub 4 marathon timing 10 years ago also hover at 140 and he still exercise regularly but not in running . Whereas I managed to go slightly below 130 for now . Sometimes I could go below 120 and usually in the morning and especially when I am hungry . My bp can be as high as 165 and I still feel normal and didn't feel discomfort at all..

it is more accurate to measure my bp before I slept and what is the proper way and time to measure BP?

 

[junjie433]

Did my first full marathon yesterday. No training except my daily 5km treadmill jogs.

Mostly walked the 42km but still made it well within the cut off time. Its doable!

If timing is not important then it will be good to do fast walk.

 

[Ender]

I use the Macmillian calculator, put in my 10k current time and also as my goal time.

I look at easy runs for endurance pace and I take the upper limit (4:40) add the lower limit (5:16) and divide by two. That gives me 4:58. That pace is my base pace or LT1.

This is just an estimation of an estimation. 10 k race is a good estimation for LT2. But later calculation of LT1 might not be as accurate and they are usually base on a percentage like any HR zoning.

But both LT1 and LT2 can be trained independently to improve the HR and pace to be higher. These calculator can't account for such changes that happens independently.

By using my steady state metrics before and after TAO training. I have found by LT1 pace has improved significantly, while my LT2 hardly changed. That is how some athletes has a narrow gap between Lt1 and LT2. And using calculator that doesn't know that I have focus a lot of LT1 training to improve my base, it cannot correctly know my moving LT1.

 

[junjie433]

Even SRY says SCSM is the toughest marathon when he compares to others he raced overseas. So please respect the distance, heat, humidity and the sheares bridge. Respect, I mean prepare to train for it and know when to quit.

Quite true, I was training in PCN at 4.30am and my timing is 5minutes faster at 15km mark. On actual day i was running at 90% body condition I know I just can't push PB and have to do a relax run.

 

[Ender]

Hi. For those who run (obviously everyone here ) feel that running help to reduce high blood pressure?

I have higher blood pressure due to genetics in my family. My eldest brother who don't exercise regularly need to take medicine to lower his BP. Another elder brother who didnt take any medication and had ran a sub 4 marathon timing 10 years ago also hover at 140 and he still exercise regularly but not in running . Whereas I managed to go slightly below 130 for now . Sometimes I could go below 120 and usually in the morning and especially when I am hungry . My bp can be as high as 165 and I still feel normal and didn't feel discomfort at all..

it is more accurate to measure my bp before I slept and what is the proper way and time to measure BP?

Not a doctor, but this type of health concern better bring it your doctor. i also have sometime high some time ok pressure. Have seen a polyclinic doctor about it, and he asked to monitor by writing down the numbers in a table, 3 times a day., morning, afternoon and evening. After a few weeks, he read my chart, and he find not a concern despite some of the readings hit 145/90. While a lot are 127-135/75-85. He said no need to go for meds.

But don't use my number as a guide, but I suggest to do a similar charting for a few weeks and then show it to a doctor to discuss.

 

[winningeleven]

Not a doctor, but this type of health concern better bring it your doctor. i also have sometime high some time ok pressure. Have seen a polyclinic doctor about it, and he asked to monitor by writing down the numbers in a table, 3 times a day., morning, afternoon and evening. After a few weeks, he read my chart, and he find not a concern despite some of the readings hit 145/90. While a lot are 127-135/75-85. He said no need to go for meds.

But don't use my number as a guide, but I suggest to do a similar charting for a few weeks and then show it to a doctor to discuss.

I went for health screening every year as compulsory from my company. When I need to fast for my blood test. My bp can be very high when I hungry . Some other day when I visited doctor in polyclinic and took bp before that. My reading It is ok ..

At home before I sleep. It is perfectly normal...

 

[Sadisticnoob]

Hi. For those who run (obviously everyone here ) feel that running help to reduce high blood pressure?

I have higher blood pressure due to genetics in my family. My eldest brother who don't exercise regularly need to take medicine to lower his BP. Another elder brother who didnt take any medication and had ran a sub 4 marathon timing 10 years ago also hover at 140 and he still exercise regularly but not in running . Whereas I managed to go slightly below 130 for now . Sometimes I could go below 120 and usually in the morning and especially when I am hungry . My bp can be as high as 165 and I still feel normal and didn't feel discomfort at all..

it is more accurate to measure my bp before I slept and what is the proper way and time to measure BP?

I have low bp and low heart rate ..

 

[winningeleven]

I have low bp and low heart rate ..

That should be good right .

 

[Ender]

He DNF. Can see the sweeper buses behind them. If you are close to the finishing line, these buses are nightmare.

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/19GTE674Au/?mibextid=UalRPS

 

[Jeremy1]

If timing is not important then it will be good to do fast walk.

Okay I will trained for fast walking

 

[galvin]

Mostly walk still can make it

What's the timing ?

If base on your training, then I also can

About 6.5hrs.

Based on overall rank, still had about 2,000 out of 8,901 starters behind me lol