jogging and motivation thread

[WussRedXLi]

Yeah he cheated, doping agent visited his house but he was somehow always outside of his house and claims that he is training.

His ban isn’t that long so will probably still see him in a few years

Hey u know how's the scene here in SG?

Tiagong in the gym circles, it's not that difficult to hook up with some in the gyms.
Talking about amateur / hobbyists scene only.......that means as you go along and meet more friends you'll come across one.

Running clubs, dont think so. Cycling, also nope. Different.

Even here in my estate, i occasionally see a gym bro in gym attire with !@#@!# humongous muscles, big until it looks unsightly type. As in, not really possible unless maybe, just maybe if you just train and focus on 100% recovery super clean diet 24 hours a day.......go food court hawker centre makan also cannot type.

 

[WussRedXLi]

 

[WussRedXLi]

Really crazy pace.......rolling hills somemore, not flat. Not sure about total elevation change but confirm not low.
15% max gradient.
24 deg C, not very warm but definitely not cold (for pro runners this is boiling hot, remember some got heat stroke in London FM before at this temp)

HM time is like 1:06
(T100 run leg distance is 18k)

Or 2.4k is 7:36 at this pace

edit - that is like our HM national record by runsohfast

 

[Mecisteus]

Actually was thinking about this a few months ago but put it off for whatever reasons then.......like not easy to get (ebay only)

But i believe it is about time now, the time is ripe.

I went to the lab to do LTHR test before.

I tell you that my number is very close to Garmin predicted. So I think this is not necessary IMO.

Is this pace good enough for a 45-50 male?

1:52:48 for 19.51 km.

Just a friendly reminder to take enough nutrients especially if your BMI is on the low side.

You could be shedding more calcium from the long runs.

 

[WussRedXLi]

I went to the lab to do LTHR test before.

I tell you that my number is very close to Garmin predicted. So I think this is not necessary IMO.

Yeah I believe all should be pretty close.......bar some outliers. For our amateur usage is more than sufficient.

I just want the meter (esp now i know it costs just $200 with the test strips) to have an additional reference point to gauge. I dont know but running i think is easier than on the bike in terms of pacing. Esp coz my bike i am not doing any power meter and so can only rely on speed (flat ground, windless condition as reference) and my HR.
If got wind then i need to do some creative agaration liao.

It's also a good and more convenient tool to have to gauge any improvements (via a meter, scientifically) every 1.5 to 3 months........TTs is a good tool as well but i feel a bit more vague coz of more variables like weather, how the body feels and 100% recovered or not etc.

Also TTs done via DPS and not in the stadium, like Ender said, not say very useful in reality.

So, $200 can buy lah........ dont spend 1-2k on those top-end branded bike computers and smartwatch can liao.

 

[Ender]

Yeah I believe all should be pretty close.......bar some outliers. For our amateur usage is more than sufficient.

I just want the meter (esp now i know it costs just $200 with the test strips) to have an additional reference point to gauge. I dont know but running i think is easier than on the bike in terms of pacing. Esp coz my bike i am not doing any power meter and so can only rely on speed (flat ground, windless condition as reference) and my HR.
If got wind then i need to do some creative agaration liao.

It's also a good and more convenient tool to have to gauge any improvements (via a meter, scientifically) every 1.5 to 3 months........TTs is a good tool as well but i feel a bit more vague coz of more variables like weather, how the body feels and 100% recovered or not etc.

Also TTs done via DPS and not in the stadium, like Ender said, not say very useful in reality.

So, $200 can buy lah........ dont spend 1-2k on those top-end branded bike computers and smartwatch can liao.

Gps aren't accurate with instant speed. Neither is optics hr are accurate with instant Hr. Their accuracy only improve when they are average out. Just look at all the watch hr vs polar h10 regression graph that the YouTube quantified sciencetist did. Every watch, even Apple has their dots outside the polar h10 line. And accuracy get worst with outdoor cycling.
Gps watch measurements is the same, the instant location of you is somewhere there, but won't be exact. That is why it is poor with instant pace. Reason why we have foot pod, which will give more realistic instant pace.

But this lactate meter would be very useful for outdoor training if you are doing the Norwegian Method protocol where you want to know if your have crossed the LT1 or LT2 threshold scientifically . Anyway I didn't try the Norwegian Method coz don't really know how to go about it.

 

[hip_programs]

Just a friendly reminder to take enough nutrients especially if your BMI is on the low side.

You could be shedding more calcium from the long runs.

Thank you for the advice. Since I started running long distance 3 months ago, my belt need tightening by one gap now.
I will add one more bottle a milk a week.

 

[sph777]

Hey u know how's the scene here in SG?

Tiagong in the gym circles, it's not that difficult to hook up with some in the gyms.
Talking about amateur / hobbyists scene only.......that means as you go along and meet more friends you'll come across one.

Running clubs, dont think so. Cycling, also nope. Different.

Even here in my estate, i occasionally see a gym bro in gym attire with !@#@!# humongous muscles, big until it looks unsightly type. As in, not really possible unless maybe, just maybe if you just train and focus on 100% recovery super clean diet 24 hours a day.......go food court hawker centre makan also cannot type.

haha see that guy around too. Think I've only seen u once with your son on the bikes

 

[WussRedXLi]

haha see that guy around too. Think I've only seen u once with your son on the bikes

Yea Sat/Sun we usually go there MBS area cool down at the AC + toilets / get free tissue at GBTB after being on the roads

The ones with brightest (irritating) taillights (or front lights) that's us liao....sometimes havent/forgotten to switch off for walkways

 

[WussRedXLi]

Gps aren't accurate with instant speed. Neither is optics hr are accurate with instant Hr. Their accuracy only improve when they are average out. Just look at all the watch hr vs polar h10 regression graph that the YouTube quantified sciencetist did. Every watch, even Apple has their dots outside the polar h10 line. And accuracy get worst with outdoor cycling.
Gps watch measurements is the same, the instant location of you is somewhere there, but won't be exact. That is why it is poor with instant pace. Reason why we have foot pod, which will give more realistic instant pace.

But this lactate meter would be very useful for outdoor training if you are doing the Norwegian Method protocol where you want to know if your have crossed the LT1 or LT2 threshold scientifically . Anyway I didn't try the Norwegian Method coz don't really know how to go about it.

Yea It's probably a more significant issue with my type of outdoor cycling, mainly at MBS area location (all the way to Mountbatten rd)....which is very punchy due to lots of braking needed on harder days..... I think Sentosa still relatively ok. So will be able have a much better idea to tell if i am overdoing it. The wind (head vs tailwind) is quite a significant factor too, so will need to play around with that.....cannot just rely on speed for those locations. I think after a while with more playing on the lactate meter i probably will have more experience and slowly gravitate towards RPE after referencing the lactate meter.
I dont go to places where a more constant speed/output is possible, like West Coast, Seletar, Tenah Merah, Mandai, LCK etc.

For running it probably is not comparatively as useful but still good to have.

Somemore now with beta alanine, it might even be more of a moving target.

 

[milkiee]

GOt money to spend, try lor. Was tempted to get one when the Norwegian method was slowly gaining popularity some yyears back. But hold off the idea,
1. being expensive,
2. poke finger for every lap is not fun way to enjoy your run,
3. Double threshold is not in my routine, and unlikely in the near future
4. My runs are usually continuous, not divided into small session like intervals where I stop and prick my fingers. And I don't go stadium for every run to do this type of interval. ONly at stadium you can leave your meter at the side when you do training.
5. I think my LT1 and LT2 is pretty well estimated by pace and intensity. I don't go by percentage of LTHR or Max HR anymore. Tell myself estimation is good enough for me, no need for scientific level of accuracy.

i'm still a little confused about the LT1 and LT2 terms.

LT1 is where your lactate start to spike isit? it is basically your easy pace where you can sustain for 1-2 hours?
LT2 is where your lactate spikes so high and your body can't clear it fast enough. it is basically your hard pace at just below z4?

i'm still trying to figure out my LT1 and LT2.

 

[Ender]

i'm still a little confused about the LT1 and LT2 terms.

LT1 is where your lactate start to spike isit? it is basically your easy pace where you can sustain for 1-2 hours?
LT2 is where your lactate spikes so high and your body can't clear it fast enough. it is basically your hard pace at just below z4?

i'm still trying to figure out my LT1 and LT2.

Something like that, knowing this, you can really heck care all those 5 zones training. Coz this LT1 and LT2 is what those 5 zones tries to estimate, and especially poorly when it is based on max Hr. Even a 5 zones intensity base on LTHR would have decent accuracy of LT2, but LT1 may not, coz it assume it is a percentage of LT2. But we know LT1 can be trained to higher HR and pace too, so it's different percentage of LTHR for everyone.

LT1(VT1)is the 1st lactate threshold, some call it the steady state where every metrics (HR, Pace, breathing rate, RPE)can maintain steady state for a long time. I say a season runner can maintain this steady state for more than 2 hours. That is because your lactate built up is very slow.

LT2(VT2)in my opinion is right at the border of zone 4 and 5. If you can run exactly at this LT2 intensity, you should last about one hour.

So when we talk about easy run, or zone2 run which takes the bulk of our weekly mileage, it is running at below LT1.

Figuring out LT2 is easier and accurate. Just Google LTHR test, they are usually more than 30 mins test. Coros and Garmin has built in LTHR test. I use my Coros fitness test to determine it. Fairly accurate.

LT1 more tricky. How I fine tune to agar agar my LT1 is I compare my steady state paces for different runs that are more than 80 to 120 minutes and see if the HR maintain steady state too. The run where my HR climbs slowly is where I consider this run above my LT1, so I look for another run that is slower pace and see if that run had steady state HR all the way to the end. My steady state pace is slower than 5:55 depend on form and weather. So when I easy run at slower than 6 min, I can be confident I am in zone 2 regardless of weather and how I am feeling on that day.

polarize training, 80% under LT1 and 20% above LT2. Nothing in between. But whether you adopt this training or not it still good to know your LT1, so you know easy is really easy and not a estimation base on a percentage of another assumed number like maxhr.

 

[DriftKing]

Any good reccp running shoes for slight flat feet? Been using the New Balance 1080 series, the sole glue is gone and its going to separate already.

 

[WussRedXLi]

 

[Ender]

Buy. buy, buy..
https://www.facebook.com/reel/1758565621626186

 

[milkiee]

Something like that, knowing this, you can really heck care all those 5 zones training. Coz this LT1 and LT2 is what those 5 zones tries to estimate, and especially poorly when it is based on max Hr. Even a 5 zones intensity base on LTHR would have decent accuracy of LT2, but LT1 may not, coz it assume it is a percentage of LT2. But we know LT1 can be trained to higher HR and pace too, so it's different percentage of LTHR for everyone.

LT1(VT1)is the 1st lactate threshold, some call it the steady state where every metrics (HR, Pace, breathing rate, RPE)can maintain steady state for a long time. I say a season runner can maintain this steady state for more than 2 hours. That is because your lactate built up is very slow.

LT2(VT2)in my opinion is right at the border of zone 4 and 5. If you can run exactly at this LT2 intensity, you should last about one hour.

So when we talk about easy run, or zone2 run which takes the bulk of our weekly mileage, it is running at below LT1.

Figuring out LT2 is easier and accurate. Just Google LTHR test, they are usually more than 30 mins test. Coros and Garmin has built in LTHR test. I use my Coros fitness test to determine it. Fairly accurate.

LT1 more tricky. How I fine tune to agar agar my LT1 is I compare my steady state paces for different runs that are more than 80 to 120 minutes and see if the HR maintain steady state too. The run where my HR climbs slowly is where I consider this run above my LT1, so I look for another run that is slower pace and see if that run had steady state HR all the way to the end. My steady state pace is slower than 5:55 depend on form and weather. So when I easy run at slower than 6 min, I can be confident I am in zone 2 regardless of weather and how I am feeling on that day.

polarize training, 80% under LT1 and 20% above LT2. Nothing in between. But whether you adopt this training or not it still good to know your LT1, so you know easy is really easy and not a estimation base on a percentage of another assumed number like maxhr.

i wonder if i should do a lab test to determine where is my LT1 for affirmation purposes.
i think mine should be around 6:30 to 7:00 min pace.

then again, i can't really be sure as my HR increases steadily for all my long run from start till the end.

 

[Ender]

i wonder if i should do a lab test to determine where is my LT1 for affirmation purposes.
i think mine should be around 6:30 to 7:00 min pace.

then again, i can't really be sure as my HR increases steadily for all my long run till the end.

This is just me, I am rather stingy on spending on things that is one off. I wouldn't do it. But that is just me. Is it that important to really stay zone 2 100% of al the time? I feel on easy days (not LSD) as long as you ended you run with not totally out of breaths, not shag out, no sore muscles and by your current HM standard less 1:30 duration. I think good enough.

Let's say you got your pace at 6:30 from the lab testing . I bet with your progress and consistent economy runs, (your LT2 pace is faster than mine base on your 10km) , your LT1 will hit sub 6 min in another 3 or 6 months. Like that your lab result out dated liao.

For me, I always do post run mini analysis for every single economy run, which are steady state pace. I am that discipline with steady state, after 5 minutes of warmup, it's steady state pace for that 1 hour plus run. The one thing is I look at my HR line chart, and see if it's flat line. But if it climbs even by a little, low gradient slope, I will take note of the steady pace and that will be my new threshold for LT1. Next easy run, reduce a few sec/km off of from there. Weather also affects this, so you know LT1 is not fix everyday. But once a while increase the steady pace a little for the easy run to see if you have improved on the LT1.

And why your HR increase at the last few KM of the long run, which I believe you are not as 'seasoned' as me for mileage volume. You are in zone 2, just your endurance need more volume training. I have been training for FM for a few years, so at times I did more than 3hours LSD. Once a week LSD will help, where you really train those last few KM endurance with fatigue legs. Not fun, and unnecessary if you have no intention to cross over to do FM.

 

[WussRedXLi]

i wonder if i should do a lab test to determine where is my LT1 for affirmation purposes.
i think mine should be around 6:30 to 7:00 min pace.

then again, i can't really be sure as my HR increases steadily for all my long run from start till the end.

Run + bike testing already like $500. eg Coached.

ps. At first i also was wondering why people got wear those T-shirts with Coached on it. So apparently they do training programs and testings like this.

But i think part of the fun is also figuring out what works on you and learning the ropes......for sure the progression and journey would be longer but that's ok.......

 

[WussRedXLi]

Buy. buy, buy..
https://www.facebook.com/reel/1758565621626186

Amazing they kept the price to be the same.

 

[milkiee]

This is just me, I am rather stingy on spending on things that is one off. I wouldn't do it. But that is just me. Is it that important to really stay zone 2 100% of al the time? I feel on easy days (not LSD) as long as you ended you run with not totally out of breaths, not shag out, no sore muscles and by your current HM standard less 1:30 duration. I think good enough.

Let's say you got your pace at 6:30 from the lab testing . I bet with your progress and consistent economy runs, (your LT2 pace is faster than mine base on your 10km) , your LT1 will hit sub 6 min in another 3 or 6 months. Like that your lab result out dated liao.

For me, I always do post run mini analysis for every single economy run, which are steady state pace. I am that discipline with steady state, after 5 minutes of warmup, it's steady state pace for that 1 hour plus run. The one thing is I look at my HR line chart, and see if it's flat line. But if it climbs even by a little, low gradient slope, I will take note of the steady pace and that will be my new threshold for LT1. Next easy run, reduce a few sec/km off of from there. Weather also affects this, so you know LT1 is not fix everyday. But once a while increase the steady pace a little for the easy run to see if you have improved on the LT1.

And why your HR increase at the last few KM of the long run, which I believe you are not as 'seasoned' as me for mileage volume. You are in zone 2, just your endurance need more volume training. I have been training for FM for a few years, so at times I did more than 3hours LSD. Once a week LSD will help, where you really train those last few KM endurance with fatigue legs. Not fun, and unnecessary if you have no intention to cross over to do FM.

i was thinking of doing a threshold test for the "feel", basically to validate my perceived effort at the different inflection point (LT1 and LT2).

think i will stick to HM for quite a long time due to time constraint in training.

thanks for the tip once again boss!