jogging and motivation thread

[dev_stg_prd]

 

[WussRedXLi]

Not many videos made on this......
Is fairly basic knowledge, but still interesting vid seeing it played out in real life race and nicely documented.

 

[podad518]

Looks like i am not the only one. Those interested, can really give it a try if you plateued for long or your training program just could not work one way or the other.


Literally the mirror image of me, age.....distances, nature of training between run : bike ratio, timing also same :
And then there are folks who run so much mileage and train so much more....but unfortunately cant hit goals due to various reasons. Sometimes maybe it also depends on the individual responses on the stimulus or something, or end up injuriing themselves and need to back track, and then train again, then backtrack, then train, then...... vicious cycle

@rachaeljelliott​

1 month ago
I know I’m not anywhere as quick as you, but I used to run 17s and 18s for 5k in 2008-9, and had to give up due to plantar fasciitis and switched to cycling.

I’m now blind and have got on the world class programme for Great Britain for paratriathlon. I now run between 25-30km a week only, but I’m now running 18 minute 5ks again - despite being 47 and only doing little mileage - but LOTS on the bike. Like Alex Bell, there’s a real place for the bike in improving your training and allowing you to train a lot more time with minimal impact. Thanks again for the videos. I make videos of my guided parkruns each week but they’re not a patch on yours!!

Just curious, how much cycling training are you doing? I just started cycling as well and I figured that I can cycle more than I can run. I run slightly less, 5KM 4 times a week and one of them is a parkrun which I would treat as a higher intensity or even max effort run.

 

[WussRedXLi]

Fast guy. 9:51 3K for his friend

This is also the race track where they run the 24 hours duration ultra marathon

 

[Mystyque]

Is not jogging Motivation thread.
Is Jogging And Motivation thread.

Also, it's good cross training anyway. Even runners like Ben from Ben is Running channel and Ben Bridges from The Messi Happi decided to cross train recently (cycling specifically) and got pretty good results, helped with their injury.

Volume might be king in quite a number of cases, but there are instances in which it isn't, or you just cant afford to put that much solely into 1 basket.

I agree cross training can help. Decades ago, I was stuck at around 9:50~10:00m for 2.4km no matter what. Started playing squash for a few months and didn't do much running training during the period and didn't even bother to time myself when I did. On the next IPPT, I went down below 9:20 ( can't remember the exact timing, too long ago )

 

[WussRedXLi]

Just curious, how much cycling training are you doing? I just started cycling as well and I figured that I can cycle more than I can run. I run slightly less, 5KM 4 times a week and one of them is a parkrun which I would treat as a higher intensity or even max effort run.

Mon-Thur nights total 2-3hrs. 1 night of which is workout as intervals either VO2max microburst 30-40 secs type, followed by some zone 2/recovery.

Fri = SIT, strides run intervals or just a fast run as run workout.
Also Mon-Fri i run to work and back for commute/lunchtime 4 times per day, just to rack up mileage for run muscles, on the way back home I do 1 x stride or hill sprint, this way i can rack up run mileage of 4km per day.

Sat and Sun i go out with kid, during cool months like Dec to now (ending soon tho) would be 4-6 hours but in between there are many multiple breaks. Recently my kid getting fitter so i think good for me also as i can hit zone 1 at least. If not earlier on when he first started cycling, was zone 0 for me.
My kid last weekend clocked max sprint speed of 38 kmh, clocked at the Sentosa speed radar near Palawan Beach so that is his current "cycling sprint strength"

 

[WussRedXLi]

I agree cross training can help. Decades ago, I was stuck at around 9:50~10:00m for 2.4km no matter what. Started playing squash for a few months and didn't do much running training during the period and didn't even bother to time myself when I did. On the next IPPT, I went down below 9:20 ( can't remember the exact timing, too long ago )

Squash i think got a fair bit of zone 2 component in it overall speaking, if played at a decent level. Some pushing it might even be up to threshold.

I remember i had a couple of my reservist friends who played street soccer/badminton or basketball consistently, all could clock 10 mins type. I could only marvel at them when they said that they dont run one.
Also, some dont train pull up one, dont know how they can pull 6-7 reps even though not strict form. Not sure they trained in which other ways.

For me, totally sedentary fella and then just 16 weeks / 4 months prior to IPPT go train via company gym treadmill to train specifically for running.......i struggle to even hit 11:xx timing, mostly is just scrape through 12 mins....ran until like wanna vomit type for last 100-200 metres.
My time was during the 5 stations time, so 12:20-12:40 passing mark then. And for pull ups, used lats pull down machine or the assisted pull up machine, every time pull until muscle pain here and there esp the first few weeks.

I think 2.4 distance still ok for cross training, even though specific run muscles might be sore the day after (eg adductors or the groin), overall the cross training would help at least let you scrape through at least. Neuromuscularly also run 2.4 that time would feel wierd, but still can push through ba coz relatively short distance.

But if push distance to 5k at near maximal intensity effort (ie IPPT 2.4 effort), i think got decent chance might DNF coz something pecah liao. 10k and HM even more dangerous.
This quite well known in the cycling world, vast majority of cyclists hate running.
For me i bo bian, i like duathlon and the T100 race format, so gotta run. heh.....

ps. This is also why, my opinion for those training for specific race for HM or FM and have a timing goal, try to not "off season" too much.....coz the detraining might get one to too low a level for them to train up closer to race, esp for those middle aged. If drop to like 5k or possibly even 10k level kinda endurance, it might be too much detraining in terms of endurance unless if the goal next time for FM is not ambitious.

Either that or got muscles / skeletal / tendon injuries, over here in this thread how many of such examples already....... Any time and every time one ramps up the mileage / intensity, is a risk, however low that might be.

 

[Kuudere]

For average singaporeans with committments and want a social life, I think around 60-80km mileage is quite good enough to get you a decent timing with high placings in most races if you are training properly.

70k/week is like 6 hours of running for me. On top of that, still got to do plyometrics/stretching/gym strengthening (core, etc.)

The good thing is that for serious runners, gym isn't supposed to be long (1 hour max per session x2 a week. could be shorter like 30 - 40 minutes session).

Plyometrics take just under 1 hour for 2 times a week.

The running time doesn't include rest time for intervals and travelling time to places to run.

Add up everything, is close to 8-9 hours. Could be more

USA record liao.


Great....40cm is actually the height of our usual chairs as well. So srsly can do "wherever you want to".

I think after a few more times and conditioned liao, you would not even feel anything in your hips. For maintenance after a month or two, if there is improvement, see if it can be maintained with even 2 sets of 20, even more time efficient this way, but remember, the quality/speed/explosiveness must be there.
From a few weeks ago, i also started explosive training for my concentric motion in strength training, seems to have benefits in that action alone. It's also how some workouts in calisthenics are done, got benefits. Eccentric you can control and slow.
That is why i dont even warm up for the plyo, also coz im mixing it up with my band strength work.

Can watch this 5km

I tried measuring my bed and it's 58cm with the stand. I could jump on my bed and jump downwards. Jump height would be higher, only issue is that I need to land on my exercise mat to prevent foot injury from landing on the floor. Thankfully, I have an exercise mat. But for the time being, I will just stick to stadium.

There's ways to make it tougher > 1. more sets 2. faster repetitions 3. higher jump height 4. do with weights (dumbbell) 5. shorter recovery time

But for the time being, I will stick to the current workout since I can still feel the ache.

Maybe is outlier eg, but still....... 11% for 5k in 8 weeks is MASSIVE

2nd video, can do it as short as 6 mins with that specific protocol. And yes, same 2X a week, same as what i have been accustomed to, dont over do it esp for the middle aged folks. (same for strength training, per muscle grp)

But i missed out what the second vid mentioned, which might be quite applicable for the others here if not doing strength. There needs to be basic level of strength first. Or just really slowly progressive load it up (lower reps per set).
For you is good, not even soreness (other than hips) after first session, even with no progressive loading. That means your circuit training etc has some strength benefits as well....or maybe you have also been doing strength as well.

I wish i had known such things sooner when in 2022/2023 i was doing much higher running volume. Might have been able to reach even faster PBs.
Wah lan, that time i really used so much time to improve so little, making excuses that old liao etc.






Or maybe not

The video shows variations of drop jumps, my approach is similar to the guy at 11-12sec mark, but I do a full squat when I land after dropping instead. I do this 10 times, then I alternate with 10 box jumps.

 

[andriod]

I have plantar fasciitis, now need to temp stop running for maybe 3 to 6 months and monitor the healing. Anyone have this issue? Sian.

 

[sales69]

I have plantar fasciitis, now need to temp stop running for maybe 3 to 6 months and monitor the healing. Anyone have this issue? Sian.

Me. Still running. It's a real PITA.

 

[andriod]

Me. Still running. It's a real PITA.

I also ran 5km, but after that my heels will hurt even more, hence I decided to stop for the time being. Very sad.

 

[WussRedXLi]

I tried measuring my bed and it's 58cm with the stand. I could jump on my bed and jump downwards. Jump height would be higher, only issue is that I need to land on my exercise mat to prevent foot injury from landing on the floor. Thankfully, I have an exercise mat. But for the time being, I will just stick to stadium.

There's ways to make it tougher > 1. more sets 2. faster repetitions 3. higher jump height 4. do with weights (dumbbell) 5. shorter recovery time

But for the time being, I will stick to the current workout since I can still feel the ache.

The video shows variations of drop jumps, my approach is similar to the guy at 11-12sec mark, but I do a full squat when I land after dropping instead. I do this 10 times, then I alternate with 10 box jumps.

Think just stick to 40-45cm is fine, focus on the movement quality, ie and speed and explosiveness conditioning, training the stretch shortening cycle, neuromuscular training etc. Tendon stiffness training shd be sufficient also.

Maybe maciam like strides, and to a certain extent Sprint Interval Training. So i think the goal is not focussed on volume .... Those are not intervals. Though of coz the studies do 60 reps total....but i am happy with slightly less like 30-40. Also not on toughness. As long as have that strides training kinda mindset, we shd be fine.

 

[WussRedXLi]

I have plantar fasciitis, now need to temp stop running for maybe 3 to 6 months and monitor the healing. Anyone have this issue? Sian.

I also ran 5km, but after that my heels will hurt even more, hence I decided to stop for the time being. Very sad.

Maybe just walk fast first if it is not too acute (ie limping + some swelling), 1km daily...... Complete rest might not be beneficial.

If you have acute and severe flare ups (something is wrong somewhere, usually is too much too soon for running), you might need NSAIDs to tame. Dont worry about the NSAIDs overdoing it, the inflammation is still there one, just a lower level so that your body can initiate healing in a few days time. Personal exp - inflammation is crucial to initiate recovery, but not acute and high enough to the level whereby pain until limp limp type and you encounter a vicious cycle situation in which your normal activities and work requirements exercerbates the PF to re-flare again and again and never initiate the proper healing stage.

I share story : My MIL and father, iron teeth coz old age. Use those chinese medicate oils (tie tar) to rub and massage, more pain more gain. must go through pain before will heal......old type of chinese thinking. 2 weeks 3 weeks still pain. PF, knee cap, you name it they've got it. My MIL went to Beo Crescent that famous tie tar, my MIL still insisted for the tie tar to treat her despite the tie tar sinseh said cannot rub one coz will aggravate inflammation, go western doc get the meds. Then LLST went GP and took the etoricoxib. 5 days swelling subside liao, could walk. My father took longer, 200mg generic etoricoxib, slightly over a week.

Only after a week or 2 of 99% subsided pain, then you raise volume of walks to 1.5, then 2. Then you mix in run again.

But if your PF is not really severe and you gan cheong and you have no GI issues, just hoot the NSAIDs if gan cheong and just do the usual PF rehab exercises you find on youtube also can ba......after a few days can try to run again, but not 5k lah.


ps. How to fix this at the root? Esp for running or even lower impact walking, need to slowly progress up in distance and intensity. And add in strengthening exercises for the tendons and fascia/ligaments plus the lower leg muscles so that there is minimal muscle imbalances. That solves the root cause. This is even more crucial for those middle age or elderly. If not, it would happen again, usually too often. It is not because running fast or long is bad and will easily get injured when old. It just needs to be trained and strengthened progressively.

Some rarer instances might involve biomechanical issues leaving you with some wierd gait, but i think usually is not the case. If this recurs even though you have strengthened + slowly progressed up in volume and intensity, then gotta see sports doc or podiatrist, see if need orthodics or not.

 

[WussRedXLi]

Me. Still running. It's a real PITA.

How come you also have PF, you super consistent fella if i am not wrong.

 

[sales69]

I also ran 5km, but after that my heels will hurt even more, hence I decided to stop for the time being. Very sad.

Can follow Wuss's suggestions.

I'm mostly running only 100m/200m strides or sprints now. Stop once pain level goes to 7/10.

Did tried longer distance but first 5k is PITA. After that, pain subsides and can run more normally but I don't dare run too much.

Some experienced runners who had plantar suggested stretching and foam rolling the calves. Not working for me but I still continue doing anyway.

Also using ketoprofen tape and gel which seems to keep the problem manageable.

Previous injuries taught me it's better to continue working out instead of stopping totally. But need to reduce intensity la.

 

[WussRedXLi]

Managed to search for this vid. I remember this vid (RIP Bob), i guess is not as common. Plantar Fasciosis. It happens when you dont treat PF properly and it comes and goes and then leads to this condition.
The fascia then thickens and dont know what........leading to thickened and screwed up circulation, and then more pain.

Yes, active recovery and continuing activity is key in recovery, but it is a fine line between that and iron teeth "just run" mentality.

In that case, really need to go see podiatrist and spend the $$$.

 

[sales69]

How come you also have PF, you super consistent fella if i am not wrong.

I suspect is triple whammy.

I changed insoles on new shoes, then did not insert properly. (can feel a bump instead of flat)

Then that day feeling tired still die die wanna run 1k intervals. End up run slower than usual and can feel gait is off.

Next day jitao plantar pain.

 

[WussRedXLi]

Can follow Wuss's suggestions.

I'm mostly running only 100m/200m strides or sprints now. Stop once pain level goes to 7/10.

Did tried longer distance but first 5k is PITA. After that, pain subsides and can run more normally but I don't dare run too much.

Some experienced runners who had plantar suggested stretching and foam rolling the calves. Not working for me but I still continue doing anyway.

Also using ketoprofen tape and gel which seems to keep the problem manageable.

Previous injuries taught me it's better to continue working out instead of stopping totally. But need to reduce intensity la.

I know you not using, but be careful of using those exercise balls to roll roll the heels....actually best not to use since got so many other things to try. I love NSAIDs for 3 days, but that's just me, and of coz also due to my GI can tahan....and since it is masking pain also, you'd need discipline not to overdo the active recovery portion, walking and other simple exercise is decent enough. Actually i am not a fan of running again during rehab/recovery stage. Cannot exacerbate inflammation to too high a level.........a wee bit of pain in the background is enough liao. Anyway unlikely NSAIDs would reduce the pain until 0 % one also lah.

 

[WussRedXLi]

Managed to search for this vid. I remember this vid (RIP Bob), i guess is not as common. Plantar Fasciosis. It happens when you dont treat PF properly and it comes and goes and then leads to this condition.
The fascia then thickens and dont know what........leading to thickened and screwed up circulation, and then more pain.

Yes, active recovery and continuing activity is key in recovery, but it is a fine line between that and iron teeth "just run" mentality.

In that case, really need to go see podiatrist and spend the $$$.

This one from Squat University further explains it in detail, planatar Fasciosis. Same doc as referenced in the Brad & Bob channel.

So, best not to let PF happen too much too often for years and undertreat it, solve the root cause properly before continuing your sports journey.

 

[sales69]

Managed to search for this vid. I remember this vid (RIP Bob), i guess is not as common. Plantar Fasciosis. It happens when you dont treat PF properly and it comes and goes and then leads to this condition.
The fascia then thickens and dont know what........leading to thickened and screwed up circulation, and then more pain.

Yes, active recovery and continuing activity is key in recovery, but it is a fine line between that and iron teeth "just run" mentality.

In that case, really need to go see podiatrist and spend the $$$.

Thanks for sharing. Damn looks like a good excuse to try back zero drop shoes. I really like NB Minimus last time.