jogging and motivation thread

Ender

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2000
Messages
18,337
Reaction score
7,968
Well continue what you are doing if it works in your schedule.

But I think there is also significant difference for me and you marathon guys, coz my distance is comparatively much lower (as low as 3k) and pace is comparatively much higher down to lowish 3:xx paces, flat ground/hill sprints, strides, 200s etc which are 2:xx. The loading on the tendons possibly might be different, when running fast i also could feel the need to bias more forefoot else i really cant seem to even cope to run that fast.

Of coz, there might be 2:30, 2:45 runners in the clubs or in the private space, im not so sure........or there might be 50 min 15k runners (3:20 pace). We already have a similar runner in this thread
These fellas might have different requirements? Coz they run both long + fast.


Anyway, I'm only trying out and copying what those faster runners are doing and reporting.....like the Jakob Ingrebrigsten vid i share last night.
Also for me it's not only strength training but also plyometrics......not sure how much plyo helps out for injury prevention but there shd be some good loading there as well, both are supposedly good for injury prevention and also performance enhancement.
So that's basically 4x weekly (2+2) sessions together at the moment......not sure if that counts as infrequent or frequent. :unsure:

But then i think ultimately for me is, so far so good i have had zero injuries so far for the past 1.5 - 2 years or so. There was one in 2024, my upper left hamstring tendon niggle, but then no issue after i started band work with that and never recurred.
Thought you may want to take a look a the book. It is a highly well read book among endurance enthusiat.No need to buy, most AI chat bot already know the book, and you can ask to highlight key points or summarize book. AI can even tailor a recovery base on the book philosophy.
 

xllms

Supremacy Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
9,230
Reaction score
5,129
Don't worry about cadence. Give an example, Jim Walmsley, Ultra distance runner, did the Hoka 100km Challenge , his Strava is only 161 cadence at 3:41 min/km average for 6 ++hours . Running gait will self organize thru consistent training rather than conscious correction. You will find your own rhythm as your body improve and naturally adapt. Myself, I am doing average 172 cadence at 6:30 min/pace. this feel natural without any conscious effort to correct anything.
ditto.
just exploring the possibility of increasing my cadence. if its not natural for me, maybe it is better to build better strength to increase stride length and stronger lift off
 

Ender

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2000
Messages
18,337
Reaction score
7,968
ditto.
just exploring the possibility of increasing my cadence. if its not natural for me, maybe it is better to build better strength to increase stride length and stronger lift off
Agree, if you build strength, your gait will change in respond to that new adaptation. But it will be natural, not conscious effort to change.
 

WussRedXLi

Greater Supremacy Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2001
Messages
95,262
Reaction score
11,568
Thought you may want to take a look a the book. It is a highly well read book among endurance enthusiat.No need to buy, most AI chat bot already know the book, and you can ask to highlight key points or summarize book. AI can even tailor a recovery base on the book philosophy.

Yeah you are right..... just use AI to kope 🤣 But hopefully the gist of what AI picks up is true -i have come across some tidbits from AI that i sometimes dont quite agree with also

I'll keep in mind and try AI to siphon in future, i have seen Matt F in the long distance tri / IM / ultra space but then again that's the thing.....currently i'm not into long distance. But if needed in future should i do longer distances, will see if i can get any tips ...

Anyway, not sure if this Mike F is the same fella as that guy who does IM / triathlons and ultras.
 
Last edited:

Kuudere

High Supremacy Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2016
Messages
25,946
Reaction score
17,185
That Fredrik uncle coach also said something about cadence and strides depending on situation. Till today i still cannot understand fully. Only understand that the most energy saving is good and hopefully we are elastic enough to save the most amount of energy.

I think ultimately, really need to extend our "flexibility" or "elasticity" or whatever you may call it and be able to tahan slower/high cadences and also shorter/longer strides and hopefully our bodies would gravitate to the most energy efficient setting. Like some folks just neruomuscularly cannot run fast at 180-195spm range....and then they are also limited to a certain stride length. Bro glassdoor can tahan 190+ for his shorter ~ 5k TTs i think, and he is in his mid 50s already.
This is probably quite dependent on the strength and neuromuscular elasticity that one can give and it needs to be trained. The same thing goes in cycling. Like for eg, i can "stretch" till around 1.4 - 1.50++ m stride length and still feel ok, and ultimately no issue ie no injuries nowadays, wrt to the level of plyo + S&C and distance/intensity i am doing.
But then if another fella runs 160spm (recently got 1 did that in the what inter-tertiary 5k poly/ITE competition), that means need to stride nearly 1.9m if at 3:10-3:20 pace (eg if i do 3k). I'm sorry, 1.9m is crazy, i totally cannot do even if i stretch, nevermind the injury aspect. :unsure:
But then for 3k, i need to up 190+ spm coz i feel maxed out at around 1.5m ++
For sprints of coz that is another matter.

Ultimately not pro or elite, so i think the best is that we can adapt and perform around a wider performance envelope. There are folks who cannot and that might be the limiter, not that he/she is aerobically limited.

There is also similar regarding cadence and power as the race goes on, the graph shifts around and changes etc. Damn cheem one.
But i'm still learning and it's quite interesting, no hurry ba......just hobby only, it's the journey not the destination. 🤣 :grin:





Our bodies really wonderful, esp if there is sufficient experience. If you are racing or trying a very hard effort, and riding across different routes/roads and gradients and headwind/tailwind, it would "self select" one.
In cycling, we have gears of coz. So in order to "survive", depending on whether it is still early and legs are fresh, mid ride or late ride, whether the glutes or the quads are more laden with lactate, we would be able to self select the best gearing in order to achieve a good speed or when to off saddle for best power output in order to still latch on or when to guai guai stay seated for best energy efficiency.
Also, for road riding, there are quite a fair number of times in which there is no choice but to cheong also, just to merge with traffic. So bo bian, forced to ride fast in order to survive. It's not as constant as running.
Provided not much limited aerobically or too much lactate in the muscles.

But this only comes with experience, then it becomes muscle memory / neuromuscular liao.


Need a lot of flexibility and leg strength. I don't consider myself flexible at all, can't really touch my toes when I bend my back. Rely a lot on hamstring/hip strength to power through.

I could go up to 1.66m stride length, I did this for 1km last year may. And 1.6m average for 2.4k all out, with 180 spm average.
likewise, i am a stride runner more than a cadence runner. My cadence goes up only when I pick up speed, stride distance increase as well. But I can hardly increase my cadence when I go slow. Still trying to learn to increase my cadence at slow Z2/Z3 runs. Whenever I tried, my HR will spike up. Any good advice?
I wouldn't bother about cadence/stride length at all when going slow. If going slow, you just want to have a chill run and not worry about mechanics. Personally, my cadence doesn't change much when I go slow. I still maintain my form but my stride length drops a lot.

If going fast on the other hand, then here is some advice:

Improve cadence: Do strides, hill sprints >> The pfitz marathon plan has this as part of the workouts actually
Improve stride length: Plyometrics (hops/skipping drills), strength training (glutes, hamstring, calves)
Improve both: Short interval repetitions (400s)
Don't worry about cadence. Give an example, Jim Walmsley, Ultra distance runner, did the Hoka 100km Challenge , his Strava is only 161 cadence at 3:41 min/km average for 6 ++hours . Running gait will self organize thru consistent training rather than conscious correction. You will find your own rhythm as your body improve and naturally adapt. Myself, I am doing average 172 cadence at 6:30 min/pace. this feel natural without any conscious effort to correct anything.
yeah i think everyone has their own rhythm when running. over time, just optimise accordingly with more running to suit their running form.
 

WussRedXLi

Greater Supremacy Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2001
Messages
95,262
Reaction score
11,568
F man, i think didnt take enough water with the creatine and/or never swooshed enough in the mouth. First time. I usually take as much as 8-10g, so many times already, no issue.

Only took just 5g just now, as i take this daily just differing doses. After like 45 mins my stomach and intestines cramped and spasm and i went to toilet to relieve coz it caused intestinal movement. Also nearly vomitted but never in the end.
Felt faint also.

After 20 mins (now), totally ok liao.

Super terok feeling. :sick: :sick:


AI Overview



Stomach cramping after taking creatine is usually caused by
taking too high a dose at once (especially during a loading phase), not drinking enough water, or the powder not being fully dissolved. It causes water to be drawn into your intestines, leading to osmotic diarrhea or stomach cramps.
Verywell Health +2
Common Reasons for Stomach Cramps:
  • High Dosage: Taking

    at once can cause digestive distress.
  • Lack of Water: If the powder is not fully dissolved, it remains in the gut and pulls water from the body into the intestines, causing cramps.
  • Loading Phase: The rapid intake of 20g+ per day often causes bloating and discomfort.
    Healthline +3
How to Prevent Cramping:
  • Skip Loading: Take

    per day instead of

    .
  • Increase Water Intake: Drink plenty of water (an extra

    daily).
  • Use Micronized Creatine: This dissolves better in water, reducing stomach irritation.
 

WussRedXLi

Greater Supremacy Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2001
Messages
95,262
Reaction score
11,568
Need a lot of flexibility and leg strength. I don't consider myself flexible at all, can't really touch my toes when I bend my back. Rely a lot on hamstring/hip strength to power through.

I could go up to 1.66m stride length, I did this for 1km last year may. And 1.6m average for 2.4k all out, with 180 spm average.

1.6+ metres stride in "non-forced" running is pretty impressive for the avg male in SG (1.74m iirc) non pro runner, assuming you are around that height also. I think quite some part of that is due to your explosive power, rate of force production....... eg like your bounding is also going to be good.

Yes.......a lot depends on hip extension and that kinda stuff. That's one of my goals of training iliopsoas or for accessory stabilization muscle the TFL or even some parts of the glute med, but i just train.....dont know got effect or not lol....coz supposed to have some (tiny) effect on cycling as well.
 

WussRedXLi

Greater Supremacy Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2001
Messages
95,262
Reaction score
11,568
Actually i am the same as kuuddere, i cannot touch my toes when bending down.......since sec sch / poly NAPFA test that time i cant even reach my upper ankles. And now, i can only touch the top line of my socks area.
Not sure about the effect of having this kind of flexibility limitation on running stride length though.

Yeah i think i remembered correctly, as mentioned earlier, I can only max out at around ~ 1.5m for 3-5k runs......dont think i can stride farther (at least with what i am training with now, or my training abilities/knowledge etc). Dont say those 200-400m sprints or even 75m sprints which are different mechanics / energy systems etc

I actually ran a few times 1.5k and 1.6k but it was quite some time ago.......cant seem to find them liao. heh........
I was trying to break that ang moh 5 min mile thingy.

kMAOagJ.jpg


MoSExJy.jpg




Slower paces.... 6:00 pace i feel like i am just shuffling around, cadence beginning to drop further.

Q69sWbC.jpg


Z5GOjko.jpg
 
Last edited:

Ender

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2000
Messages
18,337
Reaction score
7,968
Yeah you are right..... just use AI to kope 🤣 But hopefully the gist of what AI picks up is true -i have come across some tidbits from AI that i sometimes dont quite agree with also

I'll keep in mind and try AI to siphon in future, i have seen Matt F in the long distance tri / IM / ultra space but then again that's the thing.....currently i'm not into long distance. But if needed in future should i do longer distances, will see if i can get any tips ...

Anyway, not sure if this Mike F is the same fella as that guy who does IM / triathlons and ultras.
Ya, it's him. But I got to know him because of the book 80/20 running. He is actually more well know for this running book, not the pain and injury book.

True, with AI, alot of technical books, no need to buy liao, at least those popular one that the AI most certainly have 'read'. Nowadays, I see technical youtube that is more than 20 minutes, I auto use AI to summarize. Cannot sit thru the whole video.
Even Jin Yong's novel they also memorize liao. Somemore can ask AI to summarize it in English.
 

Kuudere

High Supremacy Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2016
Messages
25,946
Reaction score
17,185
1.6+ metres stride in "non-forced" running is pretty impressive for the avg male in SG (1.74m iirc) non pro runner, assuming you are around that height also. I think quite some part of that is due to your explosive power, rate of force production....... eg like your bounding is also going to be good.

Yes.......a lot depends on hip extension and that kinda stuff. That's one of my goals of training iliopsoas or for accessory stabilization muscle the TFL or even some parts of the glute med, but i just train.....dont know got effect or not lol....coz supposed to have some (tiny) effect on cycling as well.
I am 1.74m, I think it can definitely be improved. With strength training + plyometrics + short intervals, doing all that helped me to improve my burst.

Right now, I am focusing less on speed/power and more on endurance. Now, I barely touch explosive speed work for training except for 100m strides.

Pfitz plan is more aerobic focused at the start, with some vo2max workouts towards the end of it. After my GCM in early July, I will be going into 2.4k training again. Going to get more explosive.
Actually i am the same as kuuddere, i cannot touch my toes when bending down.......since sec sch / poly NAPFA test that time i cant even reach my upper ankles. And now, i can only touch the top line of my socks area.
Not sure about the effect of having this kind of flexibility limitation on running stride length though.

Yeah i think i remembered correctly, as mentioned earlier, I can only max out at around ~ 1.5m for 3-5k runs......dont think i can stride farther (at least with what i am training with now, or my training abilities/knowledge etc). Dont say those 200-400m sprints or even 75m sprints which are different mechanics / energy systems etc

I actually ran a few times 1.5k and 1.6k but it was quite some time ago.......cant seem to find them liao. heh........
I was trying to break that ang moh 5 min mile thingy.

kMAOagJ.jpg


MoSExJy.jpg




Slower paces.... 6:00 pace i feel like i am just shuffling around, cadence beginning to drop further.

Q69sWbC.jpg


Z5GOjko.jpg
For 400m reps, I can go up to 180+cm stride length but that is not sustained.

Screenshot-2026-03-08-084202.png


This is my highest stride length in sustained 1km run, 1.75m stride length.

My 5k PB of 18.53 was ran on 1.56m stride length, 173 spm.

My cadence doesn't go up as much as you.
 

GlassDoor

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2021
Messages
702
Reaction score
1,233
there is more to the cadence vs stride.. this video gives a good summary and the notes of the video has more resources to read up. (it ties in to the type of muscles/neuromuscular system into your genetic makeup)
i belong to the cadence type runner.. 196spm/0.8m at the low end.. cadence will increase into the 200+spm when doing a long run with pace... stride length into 1.4m+ when pushing 3:30 pace
ether way.. as long as the foot lands under your center of mass.. all is good.. forefoot or heel strike don't really matter. and not really viable to get seasoned runners to convert.
 
Last edited:

WussRedXLi

Greater Supremacy Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2001
Messages
95,262
Reaction score
11,568
there is more to the cadence vs stride.. this video gives a good summary and the notes of the video has more resources to read up. (it ties in to the type of muscles/neuromuscular system into your genetic makeup)
i belong to the cadence type runner.. 196spm/0.8m at the low end.. cadence will increase into the 200+spm when doing a long run with pace... stride length into 1.4m+ when pushing 3:30 pace
ether way.. as long as the foot lands under your center of mass.. all is good.. forefoot or heel strike don't really matter. and not really viable to get seasoned runners to convert.


For cycling, it even changes as you get further into the ride. The graph shifts......
Yes, the 90 rpm thingy for cycling as well........ some local seasoned cyclists even recommend other newer ones to just do 95-105rpm during smash rides/hard efforts (eg like see 1st vid below @ 0:15), when there are so many other variables to consider......some are bike related and some are rider related (heng for cycling, esp if you are younger, not so easy to get injured)
I used to pedal at relatively low cadences of 50-65rpm before when starting (even though i came from running) before cadence drills helped me adapt. But still, due to various factors, spinning above 90rpm for longer periods is not for me.

Also for duathlons, run 1 and run 2 cadence also changes coz in between got cycling leg.




Bonus, this one super cadence runner. In his other vids, even lower paces also high cadence.

 
Last edited:

GlassDoor

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2021
Messages
702
Reaction score
1,233
For cycling, it even changes as you get further into the ride. The graph shifts......

For duathlons, run 1 and run 2 cadence also changes coz in between got cycling leg.




Bonus, this one super cadence runner. Even lower paces also high cadence.


my running form very similar to his... very high cadence even at recovery paces. it like body automatic... but stride length can be like 0.6m on really slow recovery paces :ROFLMAO:.. HR super relaxed. I have tried lowering cadence to 180 and consciously increasing stride length.. but it feels very weird and forced.

but there is a huge difference to the natural cadence or stride runner to BAD running form. on my runs i see plenty of runner over striding... can hear their shoes dragging the road surface and panting heavily even at very slow moderate paces. I used to run at 160spm... but not because I am a stride runner... but because I had very poor running form. kneel pain, shin pain, hip pain...:ROFLMAO:
 

WussRedXLi

Greater Supremacy Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2001
Messages
95,262
Reaction score
11,568
my running form very similar to his... very high cadence even at recovery paces. it like body automatic... but stride length can be like 0.6m on really slow recovery paces :ROFLMAO:.. HR super relaxed. I have tried lowering cadence to 180 and consciously increasing stride length.. but it feels very weird and forced.

but there is a huge difference to the natural cadence or stride runner to BAD running form. on my runs i see plenty of runner over striding... can hear their shoes dragging the road surface and panting heavily even at very slow moderate paces. I used to run at 160spm... but not because I am a stride runner... but because I had very poor running form. kneel pain, shin pain, hip pain...:ROFLMAO:

Oh.... the vid that you shared are those 2 TW fellas ah......interesting, never knew they know something or two about cycling. Will check it out later.
The girl quite power, i think her 5k PB is like 17 mins or is it under 17 already now.

Yeah....bad form also comes in many types, i guess as long as it's not TERRIBLY bad, more or less still ok.......as long as it is minor enough to be recovered.

For me, i am not sure how "bad" my form on the bike is, but so far for the mileages i have been doing no issues.

Some bad riding forms/habits and ill bike fit can mess up things, one common and also the worst type that can affect daily functionality (eg pain) is the knees, and if extended over long term, it might be somewhat permanent effect due to chronic inflammation but lower levels.......can even affect joint flexion. Inflammation is like this, eg RA......my wife lost around 14 deg of flexion for her right elbow in just like 1.5 years before we switched to private specialist from SGH ARC.
 
Last edited:

GlassDoor

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2021
Messages
702
Reaction score
1,233
Oh.... the vid that you shared are those 2 TW fellas ah......interesting, never knew they know something or two about cycling. Will check it out later.
The girl quite power, i think her 5k PB is like 17 mins or is it under 17 already now.
the guy is a running and cycling geek... and he is fast as well. the video has lots of insights with data to backup. I take up training advise from their videos from time to time. Not like the majority of influencer videos just chasing for eyeballs.
 

WussRedXLi

Greater Supremacy Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2001
Messages
95,262
Reaction score
11,568
Share Alvinawwy's Tour de peninsular malaysia new vids for your weekend viewing.

These fellas really crazy. Going to attempt later in the year Tour de Borneo, over 3000km and + 17000 metres elevation.


 

WussRedXLi

Greater Supremacy Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2001
Messages
95,262
Reaction score
11,568
the guy is a running and cycling geek... and he is fast as well. the video has lots of insights with data to backup. I take up training advise from their videos from time to time. Not like the majority of influencer videos just chasing for eyeballs.

Oh then i need to subscribe already. I used to just cursorily view their vids, but coz it's chinese and their format not the entertainment type, So i dont really focus on.
 

GlassDoor

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2021
Messages
702
Reaction score
1,233
Oh then i need to subscribe already. I used to just cursorily view their vids, but coz it's chinese and their format not the entertainment type, So i dont really focus on.
and that my friend is the issue at hand... quality video nobody pays attention.... only entertaining video with a equally shocking or controversial headlines.. get eyeballs. sighzzzzzzz
 
Important Forum Advisory Note
This forum is moderated by volunteer moderators who will react only to members' feedback on posts. Moderators are not employees or representatives of HWZ Forums. Forum members and moderators are responsible for their own posts. Please refer to our Community Guidelines and Standards and Terms and Conditions for more information.
Top