[Official] Home Automation Thread

[lampano]

Any curtain motor can be powered by GH to work with??
Hope to have this function in my MBB

 

[waterfoe]

Have you actually walked into a proper showroom and see how the Crestron and Control4 smart home function and do a comparison?

How seamless is your current smart home setup vs the professional installed system?

In the world of smart home, things can be very cheap.... but not sure if many notice the so call smart lighting switch only can do on/off but hardly able to do dimming?

Also, the switches which many bought online... are there certified to use in Singapore, let say if the switch catch fire.... do u think insurance company is going to cover your damage?

In my humble opinion, to really understand the world of smart home, one should go understand the mechanics behind the professional system and the DIY system to really appreciate the value within.

not cheap... and basically you are leaving the solution to professional installers. Have $ anything also can be done.

Shouldnt we be talking about tinkering and DIY and sharing the knowledge instead of simply just recommending professional costly solutions?

 

[AsusEpoxy]

I have visited home automation showrooms before and came out appreciating the sleekness , but not the price. Hence for me, the holy grail is to a smoothness i deem to be good enough for myself.

People are using Google Home and Alexa to voice control dimming and brightness levels in lighting, not just simple ON/OFF. Your example is woefully outdated.

The professionals are of course good. Showrooms are always designed to impress. That's what they are called. SHOWROOMS.

I am not saying the professional systems are no good. But to just recommend professionals without elaborating smacks of high handedness which the person who i replied to simply replied along the lines of "no money then don't do"

Home Automation used to be something that is something only the rich and well heeled could do. These professionals were just earning big money hiding behind the complexity of their systems, establishing their own protocols for HA, in self denial thinking they have the best systems

I for one am glad that HA standards have been established and now made available to the common man on the street.

You have your valid points.However I honestly don't get what you are trying to illustrate. The showrooms can provide everything, EVERYBODY knows that. BUT at what price? With price cuts comes compromises. This is the nature of economics isn't it?

At least Crestron and Control 4 are professionals. Have you ever approached "professionals" who don't know anything? I give you an example. AN Digital Door Locks are the biggest smart lock player in SG right now, but they do not know anything about the Z- Wave or Zigbee frequencies and IOT integration even though many of the locks they sell have such features.

But I can confidently tell you that in a matter of years, such designer home automation solutions will either be forced to price down/ or forced to adopt mass market standards or die off.

Have you actually walked into a proper showroom and see how the Crestron and Control4 smart home function and do a comparison?

How seamless is your current smart home setup vs the professional installed system?

In the world of smart home, things can be very cheap.... but not sure if many notice the so call smart lighting switch only can do on/off but hardly able to do dimming?

Also, the switches which many bought online... are there certified to use in Singapore, let say if the switch catch fire.... do u think insurance company is going to cover your damage?

In my humble opinion, to really understand the world of smart home, one should go understand the mechanics behind the professional system and the DIY system to really appreciate the value within.

 

[waterfoe]

Just my 2 cent opinion

I have visited home automation showrooms before and came out appreciating the sleekness , but not the price. Hence for me, the holy grail is to a smoothness i deem to be good enough for myself.

I would think the perceived value depend on how you look at it.... I myself currently having both a DIY and professionally installed home automation system.... Again i might be wrong, but so far the DIY smart home is very fragmented. The voice controlled device like Alexa are all trying to bridge that gap but still too much dependent on cloud. There are significant time lag between (that is based on my experience so far)

People are using Google Home and Alexa to voice control dimming and brightness levels in lighting, not just simple ON/OFF. Your example is woefully outdated.

Before you can do dimming, your lighting switch and lighting load need to be dimmable, Alexa on it own is not able to dim the bulb (unless u are solely talking about the smart bulb)... Again i might be wrong, but so far most of the lighting switches discuss in this forum are mainly on/off switches....

The professionals are of course good. Showrooms are always designed to impress. That's what they are called. SHOWROOMS.

I am not saying the professional systems are no good. But to just recommend professionals without elaborating smacks of high handedness which the person who i replied to simply replied along the lines of "no money then don't do"

On that comment, i think it really depend on individual budget and requirements.... A professionally installed system might not be very very expensive depending on your requirements and how professional the sales are

Home Automation used to be something that is something only the rich and well heeled could do. These professionals were just earning big money hiding behind the complexity of their systems, establishing their own protocols for HA, in self denial thinking they have the best systems

I have the chance to try out both DIY and professional system.... I would say each has it own pros and cons..... If the requirements of a smart home is to be able to just turn on/off light via voice control or remotely controlling your devices or install motion sensor.... Than it quite straight forward implementation....

Consider, running your smart home with more parameter.... When you command "Alexa turn on living room" The system automatically turn on only the Fan, open the curtain and turn on the aircon if temperature is above 26 degree during day time and then during night time, the system automatically turn on the light, fan and turn on the aircon.... All these with the same command this is what i think is more robust....

Or maybe to have a single button that can trigger a series of devices to turn on and off.... Again correct me if i am wrong that any DIY system can support i will be more than happy to explore (since i can save money)

I for one am glad that HA standards have been established and now made available to the common man on the street.

You have your valid points.However I honestly don't get what you are trying to illustrate. The showrooms can provide everything, EVERYBODY knows that. BUT at what price? With price cuts comes compromises. This is the nature of economics isn't it?

The smart home market in Singapore is at it infant stage, how many people actually experience a properly setup showroom to actually see all the smart home feature in action? At least that is my problem when i did my house 2 years ago..... Of course when we talk about price, there are so many component to consider.... Furthermore, not everybody are tech savy to understand and able to install everything on their own....


At least Crestron and Control 4 are professionals. Have you ever approached "professionals" who don't know anything? I give you an example. AN Digital Door Locks are the biggest smart lock player in SG right now, but they do not know anything about the Z- Wave or Zigbee frequencies and IOT integration even though many of the locks they sell have such features.

In my opinion, smart home is not able individual device functioning on it own.... if it just the device alone it just a smart device.... I can't comment much on how An Digital lock do their sales u do have a point too.... That aside, if u ask me..... integrating lock with smart home is the very last thing to do.... If integrating with a cloud system is even worst..... Staying in a condo, you at least have some security measure .... imagine a hdb flat, the digital lock is your own barrier to your home and using IOT is just too risky....


But I can confidently tell you that in a matter of years, such designer home automation solutions will either be forced to price down/ or forced to adopt mass market standards or die off.

Actually what is mass market standard? Z-wave, zigbee? There are so many other standard in the market.... End of the day, they all exist for a reason.... Smart home is new in Singapore but not in US.... Are the professional company going bust? Some are actually growing in strength....

 

[JackDulouz]

@waterfoe how much did u paid for ur Crestron/Control4 professionally installed home automation system?

 

[waterfoe]

I paid around 5.3k for the following:

1. 14 lighting switches
2. Universial remote control to control devices connected to the controller
3. Entertainment and Automation controller
4. Integration with my Saumsung TV and Bose system
5. Integration with Haiku fan and Aircon
6. Voice control via google home

The brand i am using is call Control4.

@waterfoe how much did u paid for ur Crestron/Control4 professionally installed home automation system?

 

[AsusEpoxy]

@waterfoe

What you say makes sense. DIY HA is in its infancy. Of cos you are free to spend your 5+ k. You are missing the whole point. I did say have money can do anything right from the beginning. I was replying to someone who simply suggested crestron and control 4 without elaborating. If its you with your crestron setup and explanation, kudos to you. That is the spirit of sharing. Not like that guy who simply says no money don't do. Do you get this context? Its all about compromise which i already said isnt it? not willing to pay the high price? Have time to spare? Search and research. This is what this forum is about. To share. Not a single one liner " get crestron or control4" . Talk is cheap, action is not.

However, i do not agree with some of the points you raise. You raised the privacy issue with IOT and cloud? I assume you are using a smart phone with a front facing camera and has internet access ya? Many people have already unwittingly given up more privacy then they think they do. Where is this privacy you are talking about? I rest my case if you use an old nokia phone though. All this talk about cloud these few years have got people fidgety. What people do not realise that any external connection out is a form of cloud. Email itself is cloud mail. Its a server somewhere out there sending and receiving your personal messages.

I have a friend who raved about his igloohome lock about being safe because it only has Bluetooth and is not IOT and has this perceived safety. That's pure marketing BS. The IOT part should be an add on as a choice for the consumer. Lacking a feature should not even be a feature. Most IOT locks are offline locks in their base form.

Another thing which you raised, (no offense meant) , if your designer automation covers all spectrum for that amount you pay, why are you still doing DIY HA. It would be logical to assume your DIY HA is to complement aspects that your designer system has not addressed ya?

End of the day, things are going to get better. But i am not here to argue which system is better, i am here to share experiences. If my dissing off the other guy hits a raw nerve because you own the system he mentioned, it was unintentional. What i was driving at was his lack of sharing. .

But we are digressing too much. Let us continue to share our experiences with HA to benefit this growing community together.

 

[waterfoe]

On your point of IOT.... have you ever wonder why?

The main reason end of the day is the cost to develope the product to sell to customer. The consumer behaviour changes as they are more willing to pay for subscription.

With everything in cloud, imagine your internet goes down so does your house.... Although we have very good internet coverage in Singapore, but can anyone here dare to stand out and say they never experience internet outrage?

Another point on all this cloud services, at this moment it might be free but it doesn’t mean it will be as such forever. If the vendor choose to shutdown e service and force user to change we can’t do anything.

The IOT devices are all very simple product with bulk of the processing being done at the cloud level.

There is not right or wrong it just the vendor biz strategy....

I still have the DIY HA bcos there are devices that can be integrated with Control4 so doesn’t need to replace.

To be honest, after exposing to both types, I think the DIY can do, the professional can do way better. But not the other way round. (I might be wrong)

Things like having a physical button to trigger your home or turn off your home.

When u turn on tv, the light auto dim after sunset or curtain close during day time.

When you press the pause while watching Netflix after sunset and the lightning brighten up and dim the light when u press e play button.

Just some scenario I think is not so easily done on a DIY system.

@waterfoe

What you say makes sense. DIY HA is in its infancy. Of cos you are free to spend your 5+ k. You are missing the whole point. I did say have money can do anything right from the beginning. I was replying to someone who simply suggested crestron and control 4 without elaborating. If its you with your crestron setup and explanation, kudos to you. That is the spirit of sharing. Not like that guy who simply says no money don't do. Do you get this context? Its all about compromise which i already said isnt it? not willing to pay the high price? Have time to spare? Search and research. This is what this forum is about. To share. Not a single one liner " get crestron or control4" . Talk is cheap, action is not.

However, i do not agree with some of the points you raise. You raised the privacy issue with IOT and cloud? I assume you are using a smart phone with a front facing camera and has internet access ya? Many people have already unwittingly given up more privacy then they think they do. Where is this privacy you are talking about? I rest my case if you use an old nokia phone though. All this talk about cloud these few years have got people fidgety. What people do not realise that any external connection out is a form of cloud. Email itself is cloud mail. Its a server somewhere out there sending and receiving your personal messages.

I have a friend who raved about his igloohome lock about being safe because it only has Bluetooth and is not IOT and has this perceived safety. That's pure marketing BS. The IOT part should be an add on as a choice for the consumer. Lacking a feature should not even be a feature. Most IOT locks are offline locks in their base form.

Another thing which you raised, (no offense meant) , if your designer automation covers all spectrum for that amount you pay, why are you still doing DIY HA. It would be logical to assume your DIY HA is to complement aspects that your designer system has not addressed ya?

End of the day, things are going to get better. But i am not here to argue which system is better, i am here to share experiences. If my dissing off the other guy hits a raw nerve because you own the system he mentioned, it was unintentional. What i was driving at was his lack of sharing. .

But we are digressing too much. Let us continue to share our experiences with HA to benefit this growing community together.

 

[Solidus_GZ]

May I ask what will be the main brand in sg use for their smart light switch? Is the Lutron Caseta Wireless Smart Lighting suitable for sg? I'm looking for simple switch system, that can work even with internet outage.

 

[waterfoe]

As far as I know, Lutron Caseta is not available in Singapore and it not compatible with Singapore 220-240 voltage...

The only Lutron series available in Singapore I think is homeworks QS

As for the main lighting switches, it depend on your budget and what kind of home automation system you planning to use.

May I ask what will be the main brand in sg use for their smart light switch? Is the Lutron Caseta Wireless Smart Lighting suitable for sg? I'm looking for simple switch system, that can work even with internet outage.

 

[AsusEpoxy]

My 2 cents. And we should stop. There is no end to this.

On your point of IOT.... have you ever wonder why?

Subscription is a choice, most base plans are free
The main reason end of the day is the cost to develope the product to sell to customer. The consumer behaviour changes as they are more willing to pay for subscription.


Internet outage means house is down? DIY Zigbee and Z-Wave hubs retain local control in outages for your info. You only lose the capability to remote control from outside..I disagree.
With everything in cloud, imagine your internet goes down so does your house.... Although we have very good internet coverage in Singapore, but can anyone here dare to stand out and say they never experience internet outrage?

To broadly classify all under cloud? Ever heard of Tasmota. Just like I need to do more research on Crestron and Control 4, you will need to research more on such things too
Another point on all this cloud services, at this moment it might be free but it doesn’t mean it will be as such forever. If the vendor choose to shutdown e service and force user to change we can’t do anything.

Depends on whether you want cloud or local hub
The IOT devices are all very simple product with bulk of the processing being done at the cloud level.

I agree
There is not right or wrong it just the vendor biz strategy....

So why wasn't this integration addressed in the 1st place without the need for DIY HA
I still have the DIY HA bcos there are devices that can be integrated with Control4 so doesn’t need to replace.

You paid more, of cos it is better. No one disputes this. It's about price point. No one is disputing this. BUT you need to stop harping on it
To be honest, after exposing to both types, I think the DIY can do, the professional can do way better. But not the other way round. (I might be wrong)

True for now, but Xiaomi is fast catching up with the most complete DIY HA to date. I am not an expert on such scenes, but I am pretty sure at this point in time, Paul Hibbert can /has already addressed every single scene below
Things like having a physical button to trigger your home or turn off your home.

When u turn on tv, the light auto dim after sunset or curtain close during day time.

When you press the pause while watching Netflix after sunset and the lightning brighten up and dim the light when u press e play button.

Just some scenario I think is not so easily done on a DIY system.

 

[orlengtao]

wow nice thread! thanks

 

[AsusEpoxy]

May I ask what will be the main brand in sg use for their smart light switch? Is the Lutron Caseta Wireless Smart Lighting suitable for sg? I'm looking for simple switch system, that can work even with internet outage.

Lutron Caseta works with Smartthings, but it is not suitable for a couple of reasons.

1. Voltage differences
2. Singapore uses type 86 square sockets which Lutron does not conform to. Not so much of a biggie.
3. Lutron QS avail in SG uses their own proprietary Clear Connect RF signal.

This means once you commit to their system, any upgrades or additions means immersion in their ecosystem. Budget will become a bigger consideration.

Since you have been looking at Lutron , that means you are inclined towards Smartthings, you might want to check out the local offerings due to differences in Z-Wave frequencies.

 

[Yureak]

I paid around 5.3k for the following:

1. 14 lighting switches
2. Universial remote control to control devices connected to the controller
3. Entertainment and Automation controller
4. Integration with my Saumsung TV and Bose system
5. Integration with Haiku fan and Aircon
6. Voice control via google home

The brand i am using is call Control4.

At 5.3k I believe your integration is quite basic if im not wrong. You're using 3rd party switches are not the engraved C4 keypads and you would not have dedicated touchscreens right?

Im also guessing a single EA-1/EA-3

When you go into more esoteric setups then you will need to start paying for drivers which will be a pain. Many of C4's original "free" drivers dont work so we need to get 3rd party ones ie. for LG tvs.

 

[Solidus_GZ]

Lutron Caseta works with Smartthings, but it is not suitable for a couple of reasons.

1. Voltage differences
2. Singapore uses type 86 square sockets which Lutron does not conform to. Not so much of a biggie.
3. Lutron QS avail in SG uses their own proprietary Clear Connect RF signal.

This means once you commit to their system, any upgrades or additions means immersion in their ecosystem. Budget will become a bigger consideration.

Since you have been looking at Lutron , that means you are inclined towards Smartthings, you might want to check out the local offerings due to differences in Z-Wave frequencies.

thanks for your detail explanation,
for me i just want a simple on off switch that can integrate with Alexa.
My neighbors intro me Sonoff, is it good? from what i see it look quite primitive as compare to Lutron.
In Sg there's not many such product that was brought in.
I actually likes the Lutron 2 way dimmer switch, it allow me not to hack for corneal hard wire. I was wondering if there is anymore such product that was produced by different company?

 

[MaoZeDuo]

Sonoff cheap and seems easy to install but i read somewhere they lack safety in some areas... not very sure about this thou also hope to hear more opinions on sonoff!

thanks for your detail explanation,
for me i just want a simple on off switch that can integrate with Alexa.
My neighbors intro me Sonoff, is it good? from what i see it look quite primitive as compare to Lutron.
In Sg there's not many such product that was brought in.
I actually likes the Lutron 2 way dimmer switch, it allow me not to hack for corneal hard wire. I was wondering if there is anymore such product that was produced by different company?

 

[AsusEpoxy]

thanks for your detail explanation,
for me i just want a simple on off switch that can integrate with Alexa.
My neighbors intro me Sonoff, is it good? from what i see it look quite primitive as compare to Lutron.
In Sg there's not many such product that was brought in.
I actually likes the Lutron 2 way dimmer switch, it allow me not to hack for corneal hard wire. I was wondering if there is anymore such product that was produced by different company?

To consider Sonoff, certain things you need to take into regard

1. Does your light switch have neutral? Assume you're talking about Sonoff T1 UK here. It needs a neutral line. Sometimes it might be worth to lay a neutral line if its a new home though.

2. Cloud or local? Sonoff is cloud ready right out of the box. If you choose to do local without depending on cloud, you can do so via firmware flashing which needs some tinkering. needs more effort,but not impossible.

What Sonoff does offer is flexibility. Its not as nice and polished as Lutron for sure in terms of aesthetics, but on a price point its cheaper as well.

 

[Solidus_GZ]

I actually had this in my mind

Echo Spot in Living Room
Sensibo - 1pc for living room Aircon
Somfy Curtain Motor with Wireless module
Lights---- still unknown. still sourcing out
TV - LG C7
Sound - Sonos

 

[bullfrog]

I actually had this in my mind

Echo Spot in Living Room
Sensibo - 1pc for living room Aircon
Somfy Curtain Motor with Wireless module
Lights---- still unknown. still sourcing out
TV - LG C7
Sound - Sonos

I was eyeing somfy motors for my curtains too but they don't seem to be compatible with alexa or Google home.

Their asian region mylink is discontinued as connexoon replaces it. However i read on somfy support site they have no plans to have connexoon work with alexa.

After researching deeper into alternate curtain motors, i saw xiaomi has released a zigbee enabled curtain motor!

The community support on smarthings was also successful in getting smarthings to work with it. This also means Alexa should be able to control that motor via smartthings.

Since i have a smartthings hub already, i just ordered a xiaomi motor from AliExpress.
I will try to see if my hub can talk to it.

My next hurdle, after confirming the motor, smarthings and alexa work together, is getting the curtain rails. However that doesn't seem to be too difficult a problem. We can also buy the rails from Ali express. Just need to give them the lengths we need.

Anyway, if this solution works, i'll be able to have motorised curtains that alexa can control at a fraction of the cost of a somfy motor.

Too bad somfy doesn't want to support alexa. They lost one customer here as i would not have bothered researching into other motors if they had.

 

[MaoZeDuo]

Somfy is much more expensive compared to xiaomi...

The cheapest track is $500+... to talk to alexa need an open/close module and hub which cost almost $800 altogether... total about ~$1300

Xiaomi motor $120+ and track $40+... gateway $40+ total about $200...

Maybe xiaomi is cheaper to testdrive

I was eyeing somfy motors for my curtains too but they don't seem to be compatible with alexa or Google home.

Their asian region mylink is discontinued as connexoon replaces it. However i read on somfy support site they have no plans to have connexoon work with alexa.

After researching deeper into alternate curtain motors, i saw xiaomi has released a zigbee enabled curtain motor!

The community support on smarthings was also successful in getting smarthings to work with it. This also means Alexa should be able to control that motor via smartthings.

Since i have a smartthings hub already, i just ordered a xiaomi motor from AliExpress.
I will try to see if my hub can talk to it.

My next hurdle, after confirming the motor, smarthings and alexa work together, is getting the curtain rails. However that doesn't seem to be too difficult a problem. We can also buy the rails from Ali express. Just need to give them the lengths we need.

Anyway, if this solution works, i'll be able to have motorised curtains that alexa can control at a fraction of the cost of a somfy motor.

Too bad somfy doesn't want to support alexa. They lost one customer here as i would not have bothered researching into other motors if they had.