Penrose Sims Villa

[urbanmale2004]

It is inevitable buyers will compare SUO if they buy penrose.
While SUO’s current rental looks decent, but when penrose is up, both will go on head to head.
SUO existing owners can reduce rental as they enter at 13xxpsf to 14xxpsf. But penrose buyers can’t.
SUO existing owners can exit at 1600psf but penrose buyers must exit at 1800psf.

That’s my way of comparing and analyzing.
That’s y I keep saying I will only consider penrose if it’s starting is 14xxpsf.
Bro, not forgetting we are now in trying times, no discount no talk. Lol

Agree it make sense like when u compare to SUO

 

[Frozen1234]

Just curious, base on your explanation, does it mean that for such cases, the buyers for the second plot will always be harder to exit? This is based on the assumption that the first plot will always be cheaper like SUO. Some of the condos that came to mind with similar cases are riverfront/ kingsford waterbay and high park/ parc botannia. So, we need a third plot of land to push up the price of the second project?

 

[NiShiZhu]

Just curious, base on your explanation, does it mean that for such cases, the buyers for the second plot will always be harder to exit? This is based on the assumption that the first plot will always be cheaper like SUO. Some of the condos that came to mind with similar cases are riverfront/ kingsford waterbay and high park/ parc botannia. So, we need a third plot of land to push up the price of the second project?

Parc riveira, twin vew and whistler grand are good case study. In the end, the most difficult to exit should be twin vew whereas the one that benefit most is Parc riveira. So one has to ask this qns, is Parc riveira so damn old than twin vew until I need to pay a 300psf premium for twin vew over Parc riveira when they are just side by side? With 3 projects at same location, wouldn’t it logical to expect there are bound to have stiff competition among the 3 projects?

Not saying penrose won’t sell, it will still appeal to RCR lovers if sell at 16xxpsf, it’s still a better buy compared to those OCR at 15xxpsf like Florence, affinity, gardens, or SKG at 17xxpsf etc imo.

I just want to caution penrose buyers the possible challenges they may face when going head on head with SUO after penrose TOP.
And because now we are in trying times, thus, I’m more sensitive about how Developers priced their product.

 

[1993newbie]

March 2020 average Psf:

Parc riviera (subsale) > $1413, launch month: $1189psf
Twin vew > $1516psf , launch month: $1385psf
Whistler grand > $1481Psf, launch month: $1352psf

Parc riveira, twin vew and whistler grand are good case study. In the end, the most difficult to exit should be twin vew whereas the one that benefit most is Parc riveira. So one has to ask this qns, is Parc riveira so damn old than twin vew until I need to pay a 300psf premium for twin vew over Parc riveira when they are just side by side? With 3 projects at same location, wouldn’t it logical to expect there are bound to have stiff competition among the 3 projects?

Not saying penrose won’t sell, it will still appeal to RCR lovers if sell at 16xxpsf, it’s still a better buy compared to those OCR at 15xxpsf like Florence, affinity, gardens, or SKG at 17xxpsf etc imo.

I just want to caution penrose buyers the possible challenges they may face when going head on head with SUO after penrose TOP.
And because now we are in trying times, thus, I’m more sensitive about how Developers priced their product.

 

[NiShiZhu]

March 2020 average Psf:

Parc riviera (subsale) > $1413, launch month: $1189psf
Twin vew > $1516psf , launch month: $1385psf
Whistler grand > $1481Psf, launch month: $1352psf

For Parc riviera, there are many who enter at 10xxpsf to 11xxpsf during launch.

 

[Frozen1234]

I see. But looking back at SUO and penrose. Let's look at it from a normal economy, ignoring the times we are in. I just want to understand the pricing "concept" a bit more. Assuming SUO resale is selling at 16xx psf, from penrosr developer point of view, it is highly unlikely for them to sell below 16xx psf since they are side by side and they have a newer product on hand? So, what is a fair pricing for such cases?

I'm neutral about this penrose but just seeking to understand more on a good entry price.

 

[NiShiZhu]

I see. But looking back at SUO and penrose. Let's look at it from a normal economy, ignoring the times we are in. I just want to understand the pricing "concept" a bit more. Assuming SUO resale is selling at 16xx psf, from penrosr developer point of view, it is highly unlikely for them to sell below 16xx psf since they are side by side and they have a newer product on hand? So, what is a fair pricing for such cases?

I'm neutral about this penrose but just seeking to understand more on a good entry price.

Haha, i would be bias to state a reasonable entry price. Coz I’m influenced by its Low land bid price.
14xxpsf for bigger unit to 15xxpsf for smaller unit on average perhaps should be reasonable. Based on its Low land bid price, at 12xxpsf break even.
I always felt it’s pricing should be a tad lower than PE given its location.

After all, some may still bite at 16xxpsf harping on the fact that it’s an RCR.

 

[holasingapura]

If developer, just launch at $1,700psf or even $1,800psf....

Confirm will have young sinkies/ foreigners buy since SUO have few resales at $1600psf and Parc esta further down at $1,700psf.

After launch weekend 5% sales then discount to $1,500psf, at least manage to earn 200psf from that wealthy 5%.

 

[SethNg]

I think purchases are considered a 'good deal' if it's ~20% from breakeven price(lower profit margin for developers//higher potential for appreciation for buyers). In this case, Penrose's breakeven is est to be around 1,235psf (1,235+20%= 1,482) which is prolly why Ni bro is looking at high 1,4xx to 1,5xx psf.
*Not sure if the cost for widening of road is factored into this estimation of 1,2xx psf or not, don't think it is*


Then again, developers are driven by profit as they are still running a business at the end of the day. If SUO right beside can sell at 1,6xx/OCR launches can sell at 1,5xx 1,7xx, I don't see a reason for them to start selling at 1,4xx haha. I'm guessing 1,6xx on avg, we'll find out on launch day

 

[NiShiZhu]

I think purchases are considered a 'good deal' if it's ~20% from breakeven price(lower profit margin for developers//higher potential for appreciation for buyers). In this case, Penrose's breakeven is est to be around 1,235psf (1,235+20%= 1,482) which is prolly why Ni bro is looking at high 1,4xx to 1,5xx psf.
*Not sure if the cost for widening of road is factored into this estimation of 1,2xx psf or not, don't think it is*


Then again, developers are driven by profit as they are still running a business at the end of the day. If SUO right beside can sell at 1,6xx/OCR launches can sell at 1,5xx 1,7xx, I don't see a reason for them to start selling at 1,4xx haha. I'm guessing 1,6xx on avg, we'll find out on launch day

Yes, I’m using 20% developer profit margin as a gauge.
I felt it’s a logical profit margin for developer in this trying period.

While it’s nothing wrong for developer running a business to be profit driven, but they also need to understand buyers are also profit driven and it doesn’t make sense for us to invest in something if there’s not much juice left. Buyers have a choice to buy or not to buy. That explains y some projects only manage to hit single digit sales every month.

 

[daheigou999]

Yes, I’m using 20% developer profit margin as a gauge.
I felt it’s a logical profit margin for developer in this trying period.

Except for CEL which is trying its luck with the fine wine (Kopar)

 

[SethNg]

Except for CEL which is trying its luck with the fine wine (Kopar)

Est 1,7xx-low 1,8xx breakeven sell 2,350 avg

Since we're in trying times, they also want to try their luck

 

[Passerboy]

No such thing as sure win.

This just means few are interested in that area. Or it could be the westies are thinking that Aljunied is more valuable than Eunos and thus pushed SUO's resale price up.

As I said before, there's a reason why 2 streets away, geylang freeholds are selling for cheap, although its a short drive to the city...

How's nearby Antares doing?

Guess now u are agreeing that PE is in a better location as compared to Penrose, after others pointed out . And that’s also likely that Penrose would be slightly cheaper than PE.

 

[holasingapura]

Guess now u are agreeing that PE is in a better location as compared to Penrose, after others pointed out �� . And that’s also likely that Penrose would be slightly cheaper than PE.

Just slightly better... since PE is somewhat next to MRT and not beside the noisy PIE like Penrose.

However, both areas have similar characteristics that I am not favourable of. Very busy and messy area... markets, street stalls, so many industrial buildings and hdb. (And that is why the price there is historically depressed till developers bid it up)

I hardly commented about PE because I am not interested in the first place and there is no good comparison in the vicinity available.

The area needs a complete revamp before I take a second look. Initially swayed by the new buildings at paya lebar but not after I look further out.

 

[shadow84]

Just slightly better... since PE is somewhat next to MRT and not beside the noisy PIE like Penrose.

However, both areas have similar characteristics that I am not favourable of. Very busy and messy area... markets, street stalls, so many industrial buildings and hdb. (And that is why the price there is historically depressed till developers bid it up)

I hardly commented about PE because I am not interested in the first place and there is no good comparison in the vicinity available.

The area needs a complete revamp before I take a second look. Initially swayed by the new buildings at paya lebar but not after I look further out.

IIRC, SUO is the 1 with the multi storey carpark that is ladled with tree vines and nearest to PIE? I presume to absorb/block as much noise as possible?

 

[urbanmale2004]

Just slightly better... since PE is somewhat next to MRT and not beside the noisy PIE like Penrose.

However, both areas have similar characteristics that I am not favourable of. Very busy and messy area... markets, street stalls, so many industrial buildings and hdb. (And that is why the price there is historically depressed till developers bid it up)

I hardly commented about PE because I am not interested in the first place and there is no good comparison in the vicinity available.

The area needs a complete revamp before I take a second look. Initially swayed by the new buildings at paya lebar but not after I look further out.

Agree that Penrose location being next to the expressway and in the area surrounded by Industrial areas other than SUO and some aging Hdbs. The penrose product will come up with an mscp option for sure just like suo to shield off the traffic from expressway, never a fan of mscp as they make the development cheap and look like hdb estate. Also with the childcare centre to be imposed on penrose, we would mean no exclusivity and made publicly accessible and crowded with bad morning and evening traffics and maids picking up the kids.

 

[NiShiZhu]

Agree that Penrose location being next to the expressway and in the area surrounded by Industrial areas other than SUO and some aging Hdbs. The penrose product will come up with an mscp option for sure just like suo to shield off the traffic from expressway, never a fan of mscp as they make the development cheap and look like hdb estate. Also with the childcare centre to be imposed on penrose, we would mean no exclusivity and made publicly accessible and crowded with bad morning and evening traffics and maids picking up the kids.

Therefore, penrose needs to be 14xx to 15xxpsf before it looks appetising since most of us agreed it’s next to expressway, surrounded by old hdb and industrial areas, possible competition with SUO after TOP and most importantly, all of us know it’s land bid breakeven price is 1235psf. etc etc.

Definitely not appetitesing if it’s in the 16xxpsf-17xxpsf range, esp in trying times like this.

 

[urbanmale2004]

Therefore, penrose needs to be 14xx to 15xxpsf before it looks appetising since most of us agreed it’s next to expressway, surrounded by old hdb and industrial areas, possible competition with SUO after TOP and most importantly, all of us know it’s land bid breakeven price is 1235psf. etc etc.

Definitely not appetitesing if it’s in the 16xxpsf-17xxpsf range, esp in trying times like this.

given the extended circuit breaker, seems like the targeted launch may/jun will be likely to pushed back.

Also saw many ads posting on social media pushing out penrose recently, with some indicative artist impression.

Also saw an upcoming new launch GLS clementi issit called Claver, seems like rolling out somewhere near $1600 psf for a 1br comparable with penrose and also nearby parc clemantis, not sure such competition will drive Penrose pricing as well as they will be rolled out ard the same period.

Not sure what are your thoughts

 

[urbanmale2004]

I doubt Penrose would launch at 1700psf (avg psf) in current market, closer to 15xxpsf- 16xx psf perhaps. SUO only smaller units are at 17xx psf and I believe Antares and Penrose locale is different too. Antares locale is slightly better I guess given its sheltered to MRT?

Heard it’s gg to launch in May2020, still some time away, to see the market flactuation.

Im a westie for my past 30 yrs and strongly feel that clementi is now saturated with even more housing supply pumped into clementi, ie those closer west cost side as well. clavon is similar to parc clemantis as it is next to the busy AYE which sets the same context as penrose, next to an expressway.

Clementi is another old estate just like toa payoh, but location is still a 45min away to city centre. Or 9 mrt stops to city hall which is dreading esp after work. I personally feel penrose location in general is more superior than Clavon for s comparison sake.

Given also the current parc clemantis that is still in the market on the same stretch of AYE, its really hard to differentiate next time when u wanna sell clavon? Its not really as close to the mrt station as well. The only west coast recreation ctr across the site is also torn down, left an aging decade old sport complex and a old town ctr.

Just my quick five cents

 

[1993newbie]

I was a Westie too.

If we see Sale & Rental transaction for Parc riviera. No mrt , deeper in, next to AYE.
You’ll be surprise that rental demand is high and rental price is similar to SUO. Take 1 bedder as an example:

Parc riviera rental $2079 , Subsale: $653 750, Gross yield: 3.8%
SUO rental $2119 , Resale: $733k, Gross yield: 3.5%

https://www.squarefoot.com.sg/market-watch/shoebox-rental

However supply for west coast will increase once Twin Vew & Whistler Grand TOP plus clementi side with Parc Clematis & Clavon. Lotsa competitors. Not forgetting Parc clem has tons of Dual Key units.

Clavon will be the closest to NUS/NUH side. On Clementi Avenue 1, there’s only Clement Canopy & Clavon. Both by same developer and the only 1 bedder avail is in Clavon.

1 bedders rental is quite in demand in that area especially for students in the area. I do have friends studying in NUS renting 1 bedder condo in west coast area.

Im a westie for my past 30 yrs and strongly feel that clementi is now saturated with even more housing supply pumped into clementi, ie those closer west cost side as well. clavon is similar to parc clemantis as it is next to the busy AYE which sets the same context as penrose, next to an expressway.

Clementi is another old estate just like toa payoh, but location is still a 45min away to city centre. Or 9 mrt stops to city hall which is dreading esp after work. I personally feel penrose location in general is more superior than Clavon for s comparison sake.

Given also the current parc clemantis that is still in the market on the same stretch of AYE, its really hard to differentiate next time when u wanna sell clavon? Its not really as close to the mrt station as well. The only west coast recreation ctr across the site is also torn down, left an aging decade old sport complex and a old town ctr.

Just my quick five cents