Primary School Question

[edmwing]

It’s actually even more likely to “buy” your way in now, cos with the 2A1 and 2A2 merged, it simply means now home-school distance has become more important than ever. Those with the means can simply move within 1km to secure a place.

Traditionally, 2A1 balloting happened for those residing more than 2km away. So these are the more average Singaporeans who don’t stay in expensive areas like Bukit Timah. I know plenty of HDB dwellers who went into top schools via 2A1. These people can afford to pay a few hundred for the alumni membership, but they won’t be able to afford a house in very prime area.

Ya. Merging 2A1 and 2A2 is a good move by MOE. Nowadays everyone's an alumni and every alumni can afford the membership. By merging the 2 phases, only the elite alumni can afford the properties within 1km, this helps the schools ensure only the kids of the real elites can get in, further widening the gap between good and not so good schools. Nobody wants to (after all those efforts of buying/moving house and birth right of being an alumni) send their kids to good school and end up hanging out with kids from middle/lower class... And this merger of phase helps mitigate (not completely eliminate) that.

 

[BeerForBreakfast]

Just to add, residents live birth is citizen + PR. Citizen live birth has been around 31-33k in recent years.

2012, 2014-2016 are 33+k
2017-2018 are 32+k
2013 is 31k. Snake years usually have low birth rates.
Haven’t checked after 2019, maybe I should go crunch data when I’m free

I was analyzing this data you shared.
So the difference in citizen births between 2016 and before and 2017 and after is 1000+. Considering that every time only fewer than 10 schools need to do alumni ballot, and the number of people who are out balloted are fewer than 50 per school, this difference of 1000+ dip in births is very significant.

 

[Kanko San]

Ya. Merging 2A1 and 2A2 is a good move by MOE. Nowadays everyone's an alumni and every alumni can afford the membership. By merging the 2 phases, only the elite alumni can afford the properties within 1km, this helps the schools ensure only the kids of the real elites can get in, further widening the gap between good and not so good schools. Nobody wants to (after all those efforts of buying/moving house and birth right of being an alumni) send their kids to good school and end up hanging out with kids from middle/lower class... And this merger of phase helps mitigate (not completely eliminate) that.

O am from R. I.

 

[BeerForBreakfast]

Aiyo, what I mean is, the ratio of students do well in PSLE between the popular and neighbourhood school is significant.

All schools definitely have bright students. But they are only a handful in neighbourhood schools. Example, how many students in Chong Fu or Nanyang primary score AL9 and below? How many doctors or lawyers are from those popular primary school?

The resource, culture and the environment in those popular school, the moral value, play a part in grooming the students. That is why they are popular for a reason.

No doubt there are many ah Beng do well in life, cause they are risk taker, entrepreneur. what about those average students?

smart people will say study does not matter.
rich people will say money does not matter.

You believe those?

Is Chong Fu a popular school? I had not heard of it until a few weeks ago compared to Nanyang Primary.

One thing I notice is that typically most of the students enrolled in this kinda Chinese oriented neighborhood popular schools, are still from lower socio-economic backgrounds (parents can't type in proper English) compared to those renowned primary schools and mission schools.

 

[marshmallow96]

I was analyzing this data you shared.
So the difference in citizen births between 2016 and before and 2017 and after is 1000+. Considering that every time only fewer than 10 schools need to do alumni ballot, and the number of people who are out balloted are fewer than 50 per school, this difference of 1000+ dip in births is very significant.

I’ve been following school balloting every year (not that I’m balloting, it’s quite fun to watch the same schools will ballot in roughly the same distance categories, year after year. Not just talking about the top schools but the popular neighbourhood schools also.

 

[BeerForBreakfast]

I used to think likewise but after years of seeing different kids from different schools becoming what they are, I realised it’s really not the schools but the families themselves.

A girl I know did AL18 for psle last year. But because she lives in Bt Timah, parents would not send her to your neighbourhood gangster schools. She’s now in an international school and 6 years later she will go overseas for her uni no matter how she does at A level. And to be sure, students who get AL18 are actually not very suitable to do A level. But because of her family background (and the fact that she was from a top pri sch in Bt Timah), you would think it’s because she went to that pri sch that made her to be what she is later in life when you meet her at work.

I know of another pri 3 kid who is in another top girls’ school in Bt Timah. Her parents have already planned for her: if she does well, meaning if she goes to a top sec sch, she will complete her O or A level in Sg before going to the UK to do her uni. If she doesn’t do well for psle, meaning can only qualify for neighbourhood schools, they will send her to the UK right after psle.

What is the nationality of the girl in your first story?
Are you aware that Singaporean children are not allowed to enroll in international schools? Government policy. They do not want a small sliver of local rich class to use money to segregate themselves out of the mainstream MOE system. After all, that is how they brainwash the kids.

UK is so second tier as a country and academic system.

 

[marshmallow96]

Is Chong Fu a popular school? I had not heard of it until a few weeks ago compared to Nanyang Primary.

One thing I notice is that typically most of the students enrolled in this kinda Chinese oriented neighborhood popular schools, are still from lower socio-economic backgrounds (parents can't type in proper English) compared to those renowned primary schools and mission schools.

Chongfu is one of the two most popular schools in Yishun. The other one is Northland which was the most oversubscribed school for 2C in Singapore last year And your generalisation on Low SES/cannot type proper English is going to offend many people cos that’s not true

 

[BeerForBreakfast]

The usual suspects: St Nics, Rosyth, Pei Hwa, Cat High, Nanhua.. Mix and match each year. Ai Tong almost went into 2A1 balloting last year but just nice all applicants from 2A1 filled up the 2A slots.

This is for last year: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/primary-1-registration-phase-2a-ballot-2021-1981101

Ya lor those who got balloted out paid for nothing. This year with the 2A1 and 2A2 merged, all the alumni members have paid already before the announcement

Payment fees charged by schools to be in the alumni club has been revoked and outlawed by MOE. When? Probably the same year they merged 2A1 and 2A2. Go check.

 

[BeerForBreakfast]

Chongfu is one of the two most popular schools in Yishun. The other one is Northland which was the most oversubscribed school for 2C in Singapore last year And your generalisation on Low SES/cannot type proper English is going to offend many people cos that’s not true

Most popular in Yishun?!? Yishun is like one HDB town. And not even one that's particularly popular or with a particularly good reputation.

In my mind I was thinking of nationally popular and nationally top schools. I think we are talking about different wavelengths.

 

[BeerForBreakfast]

Chongfu is one of the two most popular schools in Yishun. The other one is Northland which was the most oversubscribed school for 2C in Singapore last year And your generalisation on Low SES/cannot type proper English is going to offend many people cos that’s not true

Like I said its a generalization so there are outliers, but applies to most cases.

 

[BeerForBreakfast]

Ai Tong, CHIJ St Nicks and Catholic High all situated in heartland.

Situated in heartland but latter two are reputable mission schools and SAP with illustrious history, CHIJ connection, etc.

FYI Raffles is in Bishan and ACS is in Clementi. Both are also heartland. Its ACS Barker that is in a prestige address. ACS Independent people like to disassociate themselves from the location but they are right smack in Clementi, in fact nearby Singapore Polytechnic.

 

[BeerForBreakfast]

That's correct. But if you are thinking you are going to get a bargain landed property from a deceased estate in future, I say think again.

E.g... a 45 year old buys a freehold inter terrace for $3.5 today and lives there with his family. In 20 years time he passes away and gives the terrace to his 2 kids who will probably in their 30s married with their own families. There is no more mortgage on the property.

1) How much do you think this 2000sqft freehold 2 storey inter terrace will be selling for in 2042?

By that time, the house will be in disrepair and all you need is one of the two kids to be a jiaklioabee, career not good enough then won't have money for the rebuild.

We have lived in SG for many decades and I have many personal accounts in my own family even. So we know this "landed property dream" conundrum very well.

 

[marshmallow96]

Payment fees charged by schools to be in the alumni club has been revoked and outlawed by MOE. When? Probably the same year they merged 2A1 and 2A2. Go check.

They are only going to merge 2A1 and 2A2 this coming registration exercise, which hasn’t stated With so many schools doing it publicly with fees stated in their moe.gov.sg websites, i doubt it is outlawed.

Like I said its a generalization so there are outliers, but applies to most cases.

Chinese orientated schools are mostly SAP schools, which are very sought-after by parents.

Situated in heartland but latter two are reputable mission schools and SAP with illustrious history, CHIJ connection, etc.

FYI Raffles is in Bishan and ACS is in Clementi. Both are also heartland. Its ACS Barker that is in a prestige address. ACS Independent people like to disassociate themselves from the location but they are right smack in Clementi, in fact nearby Singapore Polytechnic.

Bro the Raffles in Bishan and ACS in Dover are sec schools not primary schools

Singapore how big only… most places are close to “heartland” perhaps except CBD and Bukit Timah

 

[BeerForBreakfast]

Provided...

SG must survive and prosper at least 20 years more. Govt of the day must not ever be corrupted. Armed forces must be maintained. Crime rate must be on the extreme low side.

All thanks to LKY for setting this right initially. I don't think we will even be discussing this if the above weren't there.

But honestly, buy at 45 yrs old and pass away at 65 yrs, really not much time to enjoy leh.

In the first place the old man won't pass away at 65, when we look at the data of the life expectancy. So his math calculations of timeline is also wrong. Old man would pass away at 80 on average, and the property would be 35 years old.

 

[BeerForBreakfast]

They are only going to merge 2A1 and 2A2 this coming registration exercise, which hasn’t stated With so many schools doing it publicly with fees stated in their moe.gov.sg websites, i doubt it is outlawed.


Chinese orientated schools are mostly SAP schools, which are very sought-after by parents.


Bro the Raffles in Bishan and ACS in Dover are sec schools not primary schools

Singapore how big only… most places are close to “heartland” perhaps except CBD and Bukit Timah

MOE outlawed it for the coming merger. So those parents who got 'duped' into paying and yet affected by the merger only limited to one batch at most. Too bad for them.

I suggest you go and look up data on the number of SAP primary schools in SG, and look at the numbers of all non English cultured, non mission schools in Singapore (which is probably the majority of all schools). Compare and then tell me again if you stand by the claim Chinese orientated schools are mostly SAP schools. You got the logic direction reversed. SAP schools may be more Chinese oriented but Chinese orientated are not most SAP schools.

Also, just wondering if you attended a SAP secondary school? For primary schools no school results (merit) are needed so for primary schools, you do get more cheena type parents who apply for schools associated with clans but the cultural subscription of SAP high school of the students is so westernized so the environment and peers are also westernized. The primary school can't be that far off.

 

[wanker88]

By that time, the house will be in disrepair and all you need is one of the two kids to be a jiaklioabee, career not good enough then won't have money for the rebuild.

We have lived in SG for many decades and I have many personal accounts in my own family even. So we know this "landed property dream" conundrum very well.

I've seen this in my extended family as well as in my property search. It's not the matter of the kids being jiaklioabee or not having money to rebuild, because in nearly all the time the decision is to sell the property and share the proceeds. And as I was alluding, don't expect the kids (jiakliaobee or not) to be doing potential buyers a favor and sell cheap or below market price. These are the hardest sales to purchase as a buyer because suddenly everyone in the family is a property expert and they believe their asking price is accurate.

 

[wanker88]

Situated in heartland but latter two are reputable mission schools and SAP with illustrious history, CHIJ connection, etc.

My point on them being heartland is these schools are surrounded by HDB flats, so it's cheaper to purchase a property to be within 1km. As compared to ACS, MGS, Nanyang Pri and RGS which probably doesn't have any HDB flats within 1km of the school.

 

[momoeagle]

MOE outlawed it for the coming merger. So those parents who got 'duped' into paying and yet affected by the merger only limited to one batch at most. Too bad for them.

I suggest you go and look up data on the number of SAP primary schools in SG, and look at the numbers of all non English cultured, non mission schools in Singapore (which is probably the majority of all schools). Compare and then tell me again if you stand by the claim Chinese orientated schools are mostly SAP schools. You got the logic direction reversed. SAP schools may be more Chinese oriented but Chinese orientated are not most SAP schools.

Also, just wondering if you attended a SAP secondary school? For primary schools no school results (merit) are needed so for primary schools, you do get more cheena type parents who apply for schools associated with clans but the cultural subscription of SAP high school of the students is so westernized so the environment and peers are also westernized. The primary school can't be that far off.

I was one that just got duped into paying for alumni fee, but P1 is 2024. So one more batch.

Luckily small amount $500 only. But could have eat 120 packets of chicken rice with egg.

 

[wanker88]

In the first place the old man won't pass away at 65, when we look at the data of the life expectancy. So his math calculations of timeline is also wrong. Old man would pass away at 80 on average, and the property would be 35 years old.

Again my point is not about when the owners will pass away etc. They can stay there for 40 years or whatever... but if anyone is thinking that when all these landed property owners pass away in the next few decades you can snag and bargain and buy it cheap from their kids/grand kids etc, then they are going to be very mistaken.

 

[BeerForBreakfast]

Ya. Merging 2A1 and 2A2 is a good move by MOE. Nowadays everyone's an alumni and every alumni can afford the membership. By merging the 2 phases, only the elite alumni can afford the properties within 1km, this helps the schools ensure only the kids of the real elites can get in, further widening the gap between good and not so good schools. Nobody wants to (after all those efforts of buying/moving house and birth right of being an alumni) send their kids to good school and end up hanging out with kids from middle/lower class... And this merger of phase helps mitigate (not completely eliminate) that.

This logic is premised on the homes within 1km to be premium homes. The surrounding homes of many popular schools are not premium. eg Rosyth for eg got its name from Rosyth Road a landed property road but that was its first location and later it moved to a HDB area in Serangoon North. I know a lot of people, not rich, but bought a HDB in Serangoon North for that purpose. Tao Nan also surrounded by HDB.

Your logic really spectacularly backfires in the scenario whereby parents are alumni of popular schools where the 1km surroundings are HDBs (Rosyth, Catholic High, St Nicholas Girls, Tao Nan, St Hilda's,) and the alumni of the school are actually doing well enough to stay in better towns in SG, better locations and better neighborhoods and don't want to live within 1km of their alumni school which may not in some town they think is beneath them or that they don't like and because they did well enough to life to afford better housing. Lets say this St Nicks alumni, graduated from there and eventually earning high income or married man she met in university earning high income, and they live in a landed in a desirable area like Serangoon Garden, and because of these stupid merger policy by MOE to pretend to be egalitarian, you expect this alumni to tell her husband "Why don't we downgrade from our landed property to stay within 1km of St Nicks?"

All these moves would only make alumni parents of elite schools more pissed off and these are the people with the cultural exposure and means to check themselves out of the Singapore system.

I think Nan Hua as well is surrounded by HDBs but now NHPS is in some temporary holding site so their 1km is dicey also