Primary School Question

[BeerForBreakfast]

Again my point is not about when the owners will pass away etc. They can stay there for 40 years or whatever... but if anyone is thinking that when all these landed property owners pass away in the next few decades you can snag and bargain and buy it cheap from their kids/grand kids etc, then they are going to be very mistaken.

Not mistaken.
Thats because you don't understand the math of supply and demand.

We don't even have to look at landed. The gov cleared massive amounts of forestry to build "cheap" BTOs for young people from humble backgrounds so those people moved out of their parents' dingy 3-4 room HDB in mature estates and moved to new BTO towns in the ulu areas of SG.

Every economist in the government worth their salt I have talked to know about this issue. The old people aged 80s and the boomers would pass away in the next 10 to 25 years and there would be a huge supply of vacated flats in mature HDB towns released back into the market.

 

[BeerForBreakfast]

I was one that just got duped into paying for alumni fee, but P1 is 2024. So one more batch.

Luckily small amount $500 only. But could have eat 120 packets of chicken rice with egg.

That sucks..
Sorry to hear this bro.

$500 is still money and can have two really really nice meals for two without wine.

 

[momoeagle]

That sucks..
Sorry to hear this bro.

$500 is still money and can have two really really nice meals for two without wine.

And it was paid just 1 week before the announcement -.-"

 

[BeerForBreakfast]

I've seen this in my extended family as well as in my property search. It's not the matter of the kids being jiaklioabee or not having money to rebuild, because in nearly all the time the decision is to sell the property and share the proceeds. And as I was alluding, don't expect the kids (jiakliaobee or not) to be doing potential buyers a favor and sell cheap or below market price. These are the hardest sales to purchase as a buyer because suddenly everyone in the family is a property expert and they believe their asking price is accurate.

They won't sell cheap but there would be a bigger supply of those landed released back into the market.

Actually if the land is bigger like corner terrace, or large semi D, two siblings can still rebuild and stay, assuming both have the means. Also one of the siblings could be single or married without children so won't take up that much space.

 

[wanker88]

Not mistaken.
Thats because you don't understand the math of supply and demand.

We don't even have to look at landed. The gov cleared massive amounts of forestry to build "cheap" BTOs for young people from humble backgrounds so those people moved out of their parents' dingy 3-4 room HDB in mature estates and moved to new BTO towns in the ulu areas of SG.

Every economist in the government worth their salt I have talked to know about this issue. The old people aged 80s and the boomers would pass away in the next 10 to 25 years and there would be a huge supply of vacated flats in mature HDB towns released back into the market.

I'm don't disagree on what you're saying above on 99 years LH HDB flats. My response was specifically towards freehold landed property as this was what the person had posted implying in the next 20 years there will be lots of landed property coming to the market for sale with owners passing away so you can get them cheap.

Unless you are telling me in the next 20 - 30 years buyers can buy FH landed property cheaper than what it is today? I don't think I'm mistaken.

 

[BeerForBreakfast]

I’ve been following school balloting every year (not that I’m balloting, it’s quite fun to watch the same schools will ballot in roughly the same distance categories, year after year. Not just talking about the top schools but the popular neighbourhood schools also.

What are the odds like? How many alumni outside 2km balloting for how many places?

This is so interesting because only Singapore parents are forced to take part in this charade. And South Korean parents too (K drama Sky Castle)

 

[BeerForBreakfast]

I'm don't disagree on what you're saying above on 99 years LH HDB flats. My response was specifically towards freehold landed property as this was what the person had posted implying in the next 20 years there will be lots of landed property coming to the market for sale with owners passing away so you can get them cheap.

Unless you are telling me in the next 20 - 30 years buyers can buy FH landed property cheaper than what it is today? I don't think I'm mistaken.

99 year leasehold (both HDB and private 99 year) will degrade in value. Freehold will keep its value.

But even freehold will be subjected to market forces of supply and demand. Both freehold and leasehold are subject to market forces. The difference is freehold can keep its value for that owner.

For HDBs and 99 year condos, the gov will take back the flat when it gets to zero, if the seller sells before its zero, seller will get back remaining value but HDB because they are the government and the ones offering the flats, they will always price new flats at the prevailing market conditions. HDB is not gonna take back a flat at $0 99 years later but sell it to the new buyer at $1. HDB will still price the new flat built over the same piece of land at that demolished block at the very high price 99 years later.

The old landed owner pass away, and during that time period many old landed owners would also pass away in the same time period and the properties would be released back into the market. There would be high supply and smaller pool of available buyers. Landed only Singaporeans can buy. The number of old people and boomers are much higher than the number of people born in the 1980s and 1990s.

 

[fearhimwhofearsnothing]

Ya. Merging 2A1 and 2A2 is a good move by MOE. Nowadays everyone's an alumni and every alumni can afford the membership. By merging the 2 phases, only the elite alumni can afford the properties within 1km, this helps the schools ensure only the kids of the real elites can get in, further widening the gap between good and not so good schools. Nobody wants to (after all those efforts of buying/moving house and birth right of being an alumni) send their kids to good school and end up hanging out with kids from middle/lower class... And this merger of phase helps mitigate (not completely eliminate) that.

I haven't really looked at the changes yet (kid not primary 1 yet) but from what I've seen, distance to sch now plays the biggest part in getting a place in the sch?

 

[marshmallow96]

MOE outlawed it for the coming merger. So those parents who got 'duped' into paying and yet affected by the merger only limited to one batch at most. Too bad for them.

I suggest you go and look up data on the number of SAP primary schools in SG, and look at the numbers of all non English cultured, non mission schools in Singapore (which is probably the majority of all schools). Compare and then tell me again if you stand by the claim Chinese orientated schools are mostly SAP schools. You got the logic direction reversed. SAP schools may be more Chinese oriented but Chinese orientated are not most SAP schools.

Also, just wondering if you attended a SAP secondary school? For primary schools no school results (merit) are needed so for primary schools, you do get more cheena type parents who apply for schools associated with clans but the cultural subscription of SAP high school of the students is so westernized so the environment and peers are also westernized. The primary school can't be that far off.

I’m really struggling to find that piece of news regarding MOE outlaws the practice to charge membership fee for alumni club. Must be my googling skill is so so poor. Do appreciate to share the relevant news, I’m very interested in why would they outlaw a private club to charge membership fee to their private members.

i do have friends who willingly joined and paid alumni membership for the love of their schools, not for P1 registration.

And i don’t know how you arrive at that those “non English culture, non-mission schools” are Chinese oriented Non English culture doesn’t equate to being Chinese oriented. honestly the “majority” of schools you mentioned are following MOE syllabus and the Chinese level is really poor, looks more like teaching romanised Chinese. All SAP schools start Higher Chinese from P1, non SAP schools which start HCL from P1 can be counted with one hand.

Since you asked, yes I was from SAP school, so? One doesn’t need to be in SAP schools to know how the people there are like.

 

[marshmallow96]

And it was paid just 1 week before the announcement -.-"

Wah super sian bro

 

[marshmallow96]

I haven't really looked at the changes yet (kid not primary 1 yet) but from what I've seen, distance to sch now plays the biggest part in getting a place in the sch?

Home-school distance has always been important - that’s how the system works. Of course for the more popular schools, distance becomes even more important cos balloting will often be triggered at the closest distance category (i.e. within 1km from the school)

 

[marshmallow96]

What are the odds like? How many alumni outside 2km balloting for how many places?

This is so interesting because only Singapore parents are forced to take part in this charade. And South Korean parents too (K drama Sky Castle)

The odds vary for different schools of course. The data is easily available online.

Add Japan to the mix - they can only go to schools within the same neighbourhoods as their homes, so those neighbourhoods/towns with better schools will see higher property prices.

No system can please everyone - for balloting, some people will say it’s unfair that i stay next to the school but get balloted out. If no balloting but you must go to schools in same neighbourhood, another group will come and and say we are priced out in the more expensive, “better” neighbourhoods

 

[fearhimwhofearsnothing]

Home-school distance has always been important - that’s how the system works. Of course for the more popular schools, distance becomes even more important cos balloting will often be triggered at the closest distance category (i.e. within 1km from the school)

Yes, understand they increase the last phase from 20 to 40 places.

I think this will affect real estate prices as distance becomes even more important and if anything, helps promote social mobility because those new rich can now get places for their kids instead of old rich but behkan career

Happy to get thoughts on how primary school placement affects home prices

 

[BeerForBreakfast]

I’m really struggling to find that piece of news regarding MOE outlaws the practice to charge membership fee for alumni club. Must be my googling skill is so so poor. Do appreciate to share the relevant news, I’m very interested in why would they outlaw a private club to charge membership fee to their private members.

i do have friends who willingly joined and paid alumni membership for the love of their schools, not for P1 registration.

And i don’t know how you arrive at that those “non English culture, non-mission schools” are Chinese oriented Non English culture doesn’t equate to being Chinese oriented. honestly the “majority” of schools you mentioned are following MOE syllabus and the Chinese level is really poor, looks more like teaching romanised Chinese. All SAP schools start Higher Chinese from P1, non SAP schools which start HCL from P1 can be counted with one hand.

Since you asked, yes I was from SAP school, so? One doesn’t need to be in SAP schools to know how the people there are like.

It was another alumni parent from my alma mater who told me about the change of policy about the alumni fees, I suspect its part of the MOE's efforts to pretend to be egalitarian (only to make things worse). I think to be more accurate, the change was, as long as you are alumni, you are entitled to the alumni category. Previously the individual schools had the power to impose their own rules, like fees required to be entitled to the alumni category. But willing alumni will still pay or donate to help their alma mater.

 

[marshmallow96]

It was another alumni parent from my alma mater who told me about the change of policy about the alumni fees, I suspect its part of the MOE's efforts to pretend to be egalitarian (only to make things worse). I think to be more accurate, the change was, as long as you are alumni, you are entitled to the alumni category. Previously the individual schools had the power to impose their own rules, like fees required to be entitled to the alumni category. But willing alumni will still pay or donate to help their alma mater.

Yes, all ex-students are now eligible for a chance during Phase 2A (ex-students meaning you can study in the school for 1 year only and still considered as an ex-student).

Paying alumni memberships are still around and perfectly legal, just no advantage for P1 registration.

 

[marshmallow96]

Can request for special dispensation from MOE to attend.

I personally know of four such, all Singapore citizens since birth.

Just to add, Singaporeans can enter these 3 schools without prior approval from MOE: ACS International, SJI International and Hwa Chong International. These are for secondary schools onwards though

 

[BeerForBreakfast]

And i don’t know how you arrive at that those “non English culture, non-mission schools” are Chinese oriented Non English culture doesn’t equate to being Chinese oriented. honestly the “majority” of schools you mentioned are following MOE syllabus and the Chinese level is really poor, looks more like teaching romanised Chinese. All SAP schools start Higher Chinese from P1, non SAP schools which start HCL from P1 can be counted with one hand.

Since you asked, yes I was from SAP school, so? One doesn’t need to be in SAP schools to know how the people there are like.

I am not sure if you know the genesis of the SAP schools. Long time ago when immigrants first landed, the Chinese group began building and starting schools for their own settlers which at the time use Chinese language in its teaching of all subjects. Perhaps some of these Chinese schools would add English subject to its curriculum later and English period would be the only time Chinese is not used as the medium of instruction and even the English was taught by teachers at the time who could hardly speak English. The grammar would be non existent and the accent atrocious.

Later on LKY reformed the system after battling resistance for three decades from the date of independence from the group of people who still aligned themselves in terms of identity with a foreign country, and Chinese medium of instruction was history. LKY did not completely close all the schools. He let them remain except they now had to teach in English. So all these "Chinese schools" of the past became your government MOE neighborhood schools today. Today there are such schools still standing in every HDB town, and their names are still the same from the time they were set up, some still dialect names and others became Mandarin names. LKY told MOE to pick out the best of these former "Chinese schools", and to create a small group called SAP schools. At the peak in the 1980s there were nearly 300 primary schools in SG most of them are from that background, of course the number of primary schools now is whittled down due to school closures and mergers. So the line that "Chinese orientated schools are mostly SAP schools" is wrong.

The funny thing is, SAP schools students culture mostly westernized since the early 1990s cuz they were marketed as top schools so many affluent English educated parents were okay or happy to send their kids there. Also one gets into SAP secondary schools by merit so you could not flunk your English and get in.

It is in those neighborhood unknown schools that the students mainly speak in Chinese, to each other and with their parents, back then. Now more and more students in neighborhood schools speak English or singlish rather than Chinese compared to the 1980s and 1990s but Chinese speaking youths are still concentrated in these neighborhood former Chinese medium schools.

 

[marshmallow96]

Yes, understand they increase the last phase from 20 to 40 places.

I think this will affect real estate prices as distance becomes even more important and if anything, helps promote social mobility because those new rich can now get places for their kids instead of old rich but behkan career

Happy to get thoughts on how primary school placement affects home prices

No hard data on hand now, just remembered seeing this few years ago: The Signature Park condo, some blocks were within 1km from Pei Hwa while some were not. Those within 1km were easier to sell and generally command a higher price.

The home-school distance has been updated this year so now the whole development is within 1km

 

[marshmallow96]

I am not sure if you know the genesis of the SAP schools. Long time ago when immigrants first landed, the Chinese group began building and starting schools for their own settlers which at the time use Chinese language in its teaching of all subjects. Perhaps some of these Chinese schools would add English subject to its curriculum later and English period would be the only time Chinese is not used as the medium of instruction and even the English was taught by teachers at the time who could hardly speak English. The grammar would be non existent and the accent atrocious.

Later on LKY reformed the system after battling resistance for three decades from the date of independence from the group of people who still aligned themselves in terms of identity with a foreign country, and Chinese medium of instruction was history. LKY did not completely close all the schools. He let them remain except they now had to teach in English. So all these "Chinese schools" of the past became your government MOE neighborhood schools today. Today there are such schools still standing in every HDB town, and their names are still the same from the time they were set up, some still dialect names and others became Mandarin names. LKY told MOE to pick out the best of these former "Chinese schools", and to create a small group called SAP schools.

The funny thing is, SAP schools students culture mostly westernized since the early 1990s. It is in those neighborhood unknown schools that the students mainly speak in Chinese, to each other and with their parents. So your claim that Chinese oriented schools are SAP schools is wrong.

The students speaking Chinese and whether school is Chinese oriented are two different matters please… The students speak Chinese among themselves because their families speak Chinese, not because the schools place an emphasis on Chinese.

nowadays kids hardly speak Chinese, be it SAP or our neighbourhood schools

 

[BeerForBreakfast]

Just to add, Singaporeans can enter these 3 schools without prior approval from MOE: ACS International, SJI International and Hwa Chong International. These are for secondary schools onwards though

What curriculum do these use?

I was having in mind real international schools like Singapore American School, Lycee Francais de Singapour, Stamford American International.