Proposal Ring - Part 2

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KamiyaHaine

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I have to disagree. But when it comes to beauty of a diamond, people are always subjective. There is no right or wrong. So this is just my own opinion that is formed based on my knowledge and preference, which is why it may seem biased to some. My preference is always VALUE FOR MONEY. Maximise your budget to get the best visually stunning diamond.

Firstly, cut is the sole component of the 4 C that determines beauty, for as long as the diamond is eye clean at 6 inches. Hence, clarity is the least important aspect. Between a IF stone and a VS1 stone, there won't be any differences as you need a scope to see the differences. So why waste money on high clarity.Next is colour. Do a google search regarding diamond colour and you will see that the differences between D E and F is also negligible. But for D and G, you can spot the difference if you do a side by side comparison test like what they do in the grading labs. (diamond is not set and placed with pavilion facing up). This allows the inspector to see the body colour of the diamond. However, when faced up, you will be seeing reflections of light in the diamond, the colour difference is neglible when faced up. (It is a misconception that the colour of the diamond will change the colour of the reflected light). Hence, G when faced up look very similar to E and F. If you bring a D into the picture, you can only see the difference after very close and detailed inspection if the diamond is faced up.

So the conclusion is -> focus on a stone with a fantastic cut. GIA triple Ex is just the minimum criteria, do analyze the diamond a bit more by using ideal/aset scope to get a superior diamond. I am certain that one of the lower coloured stones such as I and J stones that I bought are a lot more vibrant and bright with great fire compared to many many GIA triple ex high coloured diamonds from diamond sales by Taka or GSS sales by other jewellery shops.

I agree, D E F is quite negligible & I can't see the difference unless they are side by side. But I looked at G face up & it's very obvious to me at viewing distance (say, 12 inches?). Perhaps I am more color sensitive than most. For me, cut & color are the most important. =) Like you said though, color is very subjective. There are probably people who like the more colored stones. Those H & below owned over at pricescope can be very pretty, especially with rose gold. In the end, it's very much about knowing one's FI's preferences. =) I think it's pretty safe to say that most girls in SG want colorless though. If I were to get colored, I'd completely veer that way & get one that is more strongly colored to make it seem intentional. Like Uppercut says, it's probably psychological for most females, but girls who are into diamonds & know diamonds well can probably see the color. As well as photographers. I can set white balance (ballpark of cos) by sight alone, so I'm probably more sensitive than many others.

Oh, her social circle will play a part too. One definitely has to "compete" in that sense. My personal preference would be a F, VS2 (maybe even SI2 if eye clean), and AGS000. I know, my FI very poor thing. =P One definitely needs to suss out what the FI is comfortable with before buying the diamond.
 

UpperCut

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I agree, D E F is quite negligible & I can't see the difference unless they are side by side. But I looked at G face up & it's very obvious to me at viewing distance (say, 12 inches?). Perhaps I am more color sensitive than most. For me, cut & color are the most important. =) Like you said though, color is very subjective. There are probably people who like the more colored stones. Those H & below owned over at pricescope can be very pretty, especially with rose gold. In the end, it's very much about knowing one's FI's preferences. =) I think it's pretty safe to say that most girls in SG want colorless though. If I were to get colored, I'd completely veer that way & get one that is more strongly colored to make it seem intentional. Like Uppercut says, it's probably psychological for most females, but girls who are into diamonds & know diamonds well can probably see the color. As well as photographers. I can set white balance (ballpark of cos) by sight alone, so I'm probably more sensitive than many others.

Oh, her social circle will play a part too. One definitely has to "compete" in that sense. My personal preference would be a F, VS2 (maybe even SI2 if eye clean), and AGS000. I know, my FI very poor thing. =P One definitely needs to suss out what the FI is comfortable with before buying the diamond.

What's your opinion on carat size ? Bigger the better?
I would like to her it from a girl's perspective :D
 

Jarrytrump

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Hi all diamond pros,

Have done quite abit of reading of this website and finally got myself started with diamond shopping!

After going around various retail shops, the one that pretty much caught my eye was the following diamond quoted by a private jeweller. The specs are as follow:

Brilliant Round 0.72 F VS2, GIA 3EX, no fluroscence, table 55, depth 61.6, crown 34, pavilion 40.6.

The damage was $5300, inclusive of a classic ring design ($550)

The place didn't really have scopes to scrutinize the details of the ring, but I wouldn't be able to tell much of a difference.

Just want to get some advice with regards to pricing wise for a common GIA 3EX ring.

Thanks in advance! :)
 
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p0236948

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Hi All, could you help me with this? I was at Jeanpaul and was recommended this stone,

Round Brilliant

Measurements 5.48 - 5.50 x 3.37 mm
Carat 0.62 carat
Color Grade F
Clarity Grade VS1
Cut Grade Excellent

proportions

Depth 61.4 %
Table 57 %
Crown Angle 34.5°
Crown Height 15.0%
Pavilion Angle 40.8°
Pavilion Depth 43.0%
Star Length 55%
Lower Half 80%
Girdle Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted, 3.5%
Culet None

finish

Polish Excellent
Symmetry Excellent
Fluorescence None

clarity characteristics Cloud

I was quoted SGD mid 5k for the loose diamond and by looking at some of the prices in previous posts, was this price on the high side? Thanks
 

zeally

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Hi all diamond pros,

Have done quite abit of reading of this website and finally got myself started with diamond shopping!

After going around various retail shops, the one that pretty much caught my eye was the following diamond quoted by a private jeweller. The specs are as follow:

Brilliant Round 0.72 F VS2, GIA 3EX, no fluroscence, table 55, depth 61.6, crown 34, pavilion 40.6.

The damage was $5300, inclusive of a classic ring design ($550)

The place didn't really have scopes to scrutinize the details of the ring, but I wouldn't be able to tell much of a difference.

Just want to get some advice with regards to pricing wise for a common GIA 3EX ring.

Thanks in advance! :)

Hi there, without scopes to examine further, there is little we can do to advise on pricing. The only method is to estimate a price based on the 4Cs (this is how many of the private jewellers in singapore price their item anyway). I would say the price is alright. It almost made the "super ideal" range (based on my own definition of super ideal) except for the crown angle. I would prefer a range of between 34.3 - 34.9. Since GIA rounds off their crown angle to nearest 0.5 degrees, it may be one of those super ideals as well.

Try to at least get an H&A scope to view your diamond. Most shops in singapore has it. Use it to check for the H&A pattern for symmetry. If symmetry is there also, then the price is alright.

Try to do a search on bluenile to see diamonds of comparable specs. Remember to add gst to bluenile price.
 

zeally

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Hi All, could you help me with this? I was at Jeanpaul and was recommended this stone,

Round Brilliant

Measurements 5.48 - 5.50 x 3.37 mm
Carat 0.62 carat
Color Grade F
Clarity Grade VS1
Cut Grade Excellent

proportions

Depth 61.4 %
Table 57 %
Crown Angle 34.5°
Crown Height 15.0%
Pavilion Angle 40.8°
Pavilion Depth 43.0%
Star Length 55%
Lower Half 80%
Girdle Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted, 3.5%
Culet None

finish

Polish Excellent
Symmetry Excellent
Fluorescence None

clarity characteristics Cloud

I was quoted SGD mid 5k for the loose diamond and by looking at some of the prices in previous posts, was this price on the high side? Thanks

The premium you are paying for is due to the fact that this is a JP certified super ideal. Ask JP to get you another diamond of similar specs (based on 4C) that is cheaper for you to compare with this stone side by side. If you able to tell the difference, ask yourself whether the difference is worth it or not. Otherwise, if you cannnot tell the difference, then dun pay the premium for super ideal, get an average triple excellent will do. It is cheaper that way.

But technically speaking, JP is quite trust worthy and his super ideal are really brighter (to some extent). To make sure your eyes are not tricked by your brain, ask JP to let you compare the two stones without labelling them first. So you will not be misled by the fact that the super ideal stone would be brighter.
 

zeally

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I guess what zeally n uppercut is essentially saying is that the MOST important priority in searching for a performing diamond is CUT. Carat, Colour and Clarity are really personal preferences, which also depends on one's budget and the availability of the desired diamond at the time. As much as many of us would want to possess an Ideal Cut, D colour, IF clarity and desired carat stone, this kinda combi is basically very rare + if available will be costly too.

In diamond business is all about compromising not on the CUT of course, but the other aspects of the 4Cs. Like some bro here mentioned aforetime somewhere, no one will ask to see the cert of the diamond, all they will be admiring will be the fire, sparkle and brilliance of the stone on the finger. :D So it boils down to one's "eye clean and mind clean" or just "eye clean" or "mind clean" tolerance level and how much one is willing to compromise given their budget or no compromise at all if they have a thick pocket IMO.=:p
Totally agree with this
 

-cereal-

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Can anyone help advise on the importance of clarity characteristics/ "inclusions" as per GIA cert?

Is it as long as the diamond is in the top clarity ranges, eg. VVS1-2/VS1-2, it is okay not to consider the clarity characteristics so much?

What about having "feather" as one of the inclusion? Means, there's a crack in the stone and may crack or not so durable?
 

zeally

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I agree with you mostly, but you missed out one important point. That is the psychological barrier. Even though most people won't tell the difference between a F and a G, the fact is that G color is perceived as second class because it's labelled as "Near Colourless". Some people also think that VVS2 is the minimum cos clarity to some Chinese is a sign of luck /fortune.

At the end of the day, its NOT up to you. Its what your partner wants and get the right thing for her. (This also goes to show how well you know her too)

Yes, indeed, the psychological barrier that is constant reinforced by the marketing gimmicks by profit driven local shops that knows little about diamonds.

I do not agree with the last sentence. It is really up to you AND your partner to decide what ring/diamond to get. If a couple is getting ready for marriage, there will more things to spend money on. That is why I post about maximising your budget most of the time rather than increasing your budget to maximise the specs of your diamond. I have seen friends who over spend on proposal ring and often ran out of cash to do other stuff.... To me, a partner who is understanding is a partner for life. A "partner" who can be swayed by a big bright colourless stone is ... will not be my partner.
 

zeally

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Can anyone help advise on the importance of clarity characteristics/ "inclusions" as per GIA cert?

Is it as long as the diamond is in the top clarity ranges, eg. VVS1-2/VS1-2, it is okay not to consider the clarity characteristics so much?

What about having "feather" as one of the inclusion? Means, there's a crack in the stone and may crack or not so durable?

VS1 and up. Safe 99.99% of the time.
VS2 may have a small chance of some black characteristics which may be slightly visible if view through the pavilion. It depends on the type of inclusion and its location as well. But 99% safe
 

p0236948

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The premium you are paying for is due to the fact that this is a JP certified super ideal. Ask JP to get you another diamond of similar specs (based on 4C) that is cheaper for you to compare with this stone side by side. If you able to tell the difference, ask yourself whether the difference is worth it or not. Otherwise, if you cannnot tell the difference, then dun pay the premium for super ideal, get an average triple excellent will do. It is cheaper that way.

But technically speaking, JP is quite trust worthy and his super ideal are really brighter (to some extent). To make sure your eyes are not tricked by your brain, ask JP to let you compare the two stones without labelling them first. So you will not be misled by the fact that the super ideal stone would be brighter.

Thanks for the comments. Will do. I was just comparing with the rest of the prices from JP from previous comments and it seems like the 3 quotes I got has an average of 1k higher in price. Not too sure whether are some of those super ideal cut anot.
 

UpperCut

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Yes, indeed, the psychological barrier that is constant reinforced by the marketing gimmicks by profit driven local shops that knows little about diamonds.

I do not agree with the last sentence. It is really up to you AND your partner to decide what ring/diamond to get. If a couple is getting ready for marriage, there will more things to spend money on. That is why I post about maximising your budget most of the time rather than increasing your budget to maximise the specs of your diamond. I have seen friends who over spend on proposal ring and often ran out of cash to do other stuff.... To me, a partner who is understanding is a partner for life. A "partner" who can be swayed by a big bright colourless stone is ... will not be my partner.

Dude, the engagement ring isnt gonna be worn on your finger right ?:eek:
 

KamiyaHaine

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What's your opinion on carat size ? Bigger the better?
I would like to her it from a girl's perspective :D

Hmm, there are always exceptions to the norm, but imo, bigger is better lah (provided everything else is already fantastic), if the finances can take it without going into debt. Yeah, you can always upgrade later, but it wouldn't be the ring that he proposed with, if you get what I mean? Knowing that he gave me the best he can is important to me. Let's say, a guy earns 10k per month (mostly disposable income, no other financial commitments to family). If he spent only 3k on the ring, I think any girl would feel at least a bit slighted. However, if a guy earns 1k a month, and he spent 3k on the ring, I'd feel like he would really do his best to love me & dote on me for the rest of his life. Of course, some people will say that it's really materialistic, but I think any girl would agree that they feel absolutely adored. (They may say they won't, but see how they change their tune when they experience it for themselves.) Another thing is that girls don't like other girls to put down their guy. It really hurt for my friend who was teased about her not so nice .2 diamond. She understands that he had a limited budget, but it still bothered her enough for her to admit it to me.

I have to note though, there are girls who don't like or cannot wear big diamonds. In that case, my advise would be to upgrade on clarity & color. In these cases, it's not so much about the size but the thought & cost that went into it. Another option would be for the guy to present her with 2 rings, one with a smaller, more plain design for everyday wear, & a maxed out one. For these people, I think a proposal ring & an engagement (pair) ring would be a good idea. It really pays to know one's prospective fiancee.

Guys can blame it on De Beers for their marketing on their pretty yet practically worthless rocks, but the fact is that girls love to feel adored & beloved. This want is not something that didn't already exist. (Though probably it would be more practical to present gold bars & a house for a proposal. LOL)

I guess what I'm trying to say is that a guy can never go wrong with giving 100% in getting the proposal ring, be it a poorly cut .1 J color or the most brilliant 5ct D in Singapore. It's really the thought, effort & love that goes into the ring that counts.

When my FI severely reduced his expenditure to give me that diamond, the gesture said to me, "I will gladly give you the best I can afford even if it means I need to cut back on myself. You will never go without." It's been years since my godmother received her diamond, & she put it in a deposit box at the bank as they are in-between houses right now, but just looking at the key reminds her of how it made it her feel so treasured & loved. Of course, he treats her well in daily life too. =)

(I'm not judging those guy who don't spend a few K on their diamonds though they can, btw. Male & female brains think really differently, and I didn't think of it that way until just this month. I'm sure their FIs are happy with whatever they received as long as it's from them.)
 
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KamiyaHaine

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Yes, indeed, the psychological barrier that is constant reinforced by the marketing gimmicks by profit driven local shops that knows little about diamonds.

I do not agree with the last sentence. It is really up to you AND your partner to decide what ring/diamond to get. If a couple is getting ready for marriage, there will more things to spend money on. That is why I post about maximising your budget most of the time rather than increasing your budget to maximise the specs of your diamond. I have seen friends who over spend on proposal ring and often ran out of cash to do other stuff.... To me, a partner who is understanding is a partner for life. A "partner" who can be swayed by a big bright colourless stone is ... will not be my partner.

Yeah, girls can be understanding & most WILL be understanding, but I've never heard of a girl who did not feel the least bit thrilled with a boyfriend who stretched till he felt the pinch to give her the best ring he can. It's about making her happy. =) My FI could have bought me the sapphire I picked out, or even a CZ & I would have understood, but it makes me ecstatic that he surprised me with something beyond what I expected. He gave up some purchases of his own & saved longer to be able to buy it for me.

However, a guy who buys something that he cannot afford (i.e. cannot afford food & emptied his savings completely to pay for the first payment of many) will make me think twice about marrying him. It shows that he makes bad decisions with his money. If he has the $$ but did an interest free installment to pay it off slowly while putting aside the rest of the funds, I think he's even smarter.

Making your FI happy with a purchase within means is IMO never a bad decision though. But hey, I'm just one female. Your mileage may vary. XD
 

huhu84

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Hi Guys after reading all the threads here and many seem to reco JannPaul, was there yest afternoon to check it out and bought this on impulse :s13:

good stone ? bought it bcos the guy was patient and trying to educate me on the stones and the stone was well within my budget.:s13:

Round Brilliant
Measurements 5.98 - 5.99 x 3.64 mm
Carat 0.80 carat
Color Grade : F
Clarity Grade : VVS2
Cut Grade : Excellent
Polish : Excellent
Symmetry : Excellent
Fluorescence : None

Proportions
Depth 60.9 %
Table 58 %
Crown Angle 34.0°
Crown Height 14.0%
Pavilion Angle 40.8°
Pavilion Depth 43.0%
Girdle Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted, 4.0%
Culet None
 
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p0236948

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Hi All, could you help me with this? I was at Jeanpaul and was recommended this stone,

Round Brilliant

Measurements 5.48 - 5.50 x 3.37 mm
Carat 0.62 carat
Color Grade F
Clarity Grade VS1
Cut Grade Excellent

proportions

Depth 61.4 %
Table 57 %
Crown Angle 34.5°
Crown Height 15.0%
Pavilion Angle 40.8°
Pavilion Depth 43.0%
Star Length 55%
Lower Half 80%
Girdle Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted, 3.5%
Culet None

finish

Polish Excellent
Symmetry Excellent
Fluorescence None

clarity characteristics Cloud

I was quoted SGD mid 5k for the loose diamond and by looking at some of the prices in previous posts, was this price on the high side? Thanks

Hello morning. Anyone has more comments on this to help? Appreciate it.
 

Lurker_13

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Hello morning. Anyone has more comments on this to help? Appreciate it.

Diamond prices fluctuate every month, so you cannot compare the price now with those purchased months back. If this price is not within your budget, let JP know and probably get them to recommend another stone that is within your budget for you to compare? :)
 

Lurker_13

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Hi Guys after reading all the threads here and many seem to reco JannPaul, was there yest afternoon to check it out and bought this on impulse :s13:

good stone ? bought it bcos the guy was patient and trying to educate me on the stones and the stone was well within my budget.:s13:

Round Brilliant
Measurements 5.98 - 5.99 x 3.64 mm
Carat 0.80 carat
Color Grade : F
Clarity Grade : VVS2
Cut Grade : Excellent
Polish : Excellent
Symmetry : Excellent
Fluorescence : None

Proportions
Depth 60.9 %
Table 58 %
Crown Angle 34.0°
Crown Height 14.0%
Pavilion Angle 40.8°
Pavilion Depth 43.0%
Girdle Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted, 4.0%
Culet None

Bro, u getting a 0.8 VVS2 stone on impulse? You really got thick pocket man!:eek:
 

huhu84

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Bro, u getting a 0.8 VVS2 stone on impulse? You really got thick pocket man!:eek:

Ok la GF say 0.5 enuff already. Buy slightly bigger should be safe. Money save from not buying a carat can buy better wedding band.


Forget to mention paid 8.9k for the stone. Price wise ok I guess as compared to other stores.
 
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Amplif1er

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Hi all,

Hopefully someone can enlighten me on the following, how much roughly should I be expecting for the following,

- 1 carat
- VS1
- Colour F
- Any cut

Preparing budget for proposal ring. Thanks!
 
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