Proposal Ring - Part 3

[bb_100]

Hey!

I'm no diamond expert or anything, but just wanted to share my two cents worth as I just proposed to my girlfriend a couple of months back.

I did tons of research like what you're doing, but eventually settled on a heart shaped diamond for my SO. I got it online at JamesAllen.com, with which I felt that value I purchased it at was reasonable and justifiable.

Whilst browsing through the heart shaped diamonds, I realized and was advised that for 'fancier cuts', the look of the diamond was of utmost importance. Yes, clarity and all play a part as well - but something of a decent cut and clarity would suffice.

I was deciding between 2 heart shaped diamonds, where:

Diamond A - better in terms of grade, clarity, etc; but had a 'not-so-perfect' heart shape.
Diamond B - lousier in terms of grade, clarity etc; but had the (IMO) 'cutest' and very comic like heart shape.

Both diamonds were similar in terms of cost.

Eventually, I went the 'cute-sy' like heart shape diamond even though it was technically 'lousier' in its other metrics. I guess shape wise, it was sort of a representation of what I always have thought and will think of my SO is to me. Like you mentioned, a heart shape is a timeless symbol of love and romance. And that was what it meant to both my SO and me.

Fast forward to when I've gotten the ring and proposed - My SO loves it, I love it on her, and I feel that I made a great choice in picking a heart shaped one over the 'norm'.

Thank you for sharing your experience man! I think I know what to do liao.

 

[Draculav]

btw for those looking to buy from Blue Nile, I noticed that the author of beyond4cs commented on one of the articles I posted that he had some coupon codes to give away to readers. Can't find the exact page now though, but I do recall seeing it somewhere. He also provides readers with free (yes free) assistance in selecting good diamonds online, and is a local Singaporean. No affiliation but for those who want to venture into buying diamonds online, might want to drop him a message and see if he can give a helping hand!

He's probably more qualified to give legit advice than us quacks here since he does have actual GIA qualifications

Those sites earn $$ by referral fees / commission (not free)

 

[thecat21]

Hey!

I'm no diamond expert or anything, but just wanted to share my two cents worth as I just proposed to my girlfriend a couple of months back.

I did tons of research like what you're doing, but eventually settled on a heart shaped diamond for my SO. I got it online at JamesAllen.com, with which I felt that value I purchased it at was reasonable and justifiable.

Whilst browsing through the heart shaped diamonds, I realized and was advised that for 'fancier cuts', the look of the diamond was of utmost importance. Yes, clarity and all play a part as well - but something of a decent cut and clarity would suffice.

I was deciding between 2 heart shaped diamonds, where:

Diamond A - better in terms of grade, clarity, etc; but had a 'not-so-perfect' heart shape.
Diamond B - lousier in terms of grade, clarity etc; but had the (IMO) 'cutest' and very comic like heart shape.

Both diamonds were similar in terms of cost.

Eventually, I went the 'cute-sy' like heart shape diamond even though it was technically 'lousier' in its other metrics. I guess shape wise, it was sort of a representation of what I always have thought and will think of my SO is to me. Like you mentioned, a heart shape is a timeless symbol of love and romance. And that was what it meant to both my SO and me.

Fast forward to when I've gotten the ring and proposed - My SO loves it, I love it on her, and I feel that I made a great choice in picking a heart shaped one over the 'norm'.

I'm glad you are happy with your purchase, definitely nothing wrong in dialing back on specs as long as you are doing so calculatingly. Hope you had a good experience buying from JA too.

 

[Mummtaz]

Autium Jewelry

Those sites earn $$ by referral fees / commission (not free)

Yeh could not agree more, but lucky for me, i found a Jewelry shop that has a factory of their own, they're able to do all kinds of customisation for bracelets, wedding rings, wedding bands, heirloom, rings, Necklace. Hence shamelessly made an almost identical piece from Gold heart at 30% cheaper. please do not judge. guys will understand

Great service really. All their diamonds comes with GIA certs. Pretty good deal and my fiancee really happy.

Hope this is of great help for all the young couples out there and for whoever wants to get the best at the most reasonable price. Cutting all the agent fee (salesman commission) and have the dream piece of their own.

They have some fusion gold, they said they are the only ones in the world that has it. they say one ah do not quote me. Anyway that is the link at the bottom, you can check them out.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/Autium/about/?ref=page_internal

 

[NavalkruS]

not necessarily. if it came down to $100 to upgrade to an IF or $100 to upgrade to a stone that is 0.01 to 0.05 carats larger, I'd pick the IF just for kicks. Both are imperceptible to the human eye, but an IF is more impressive on paper than a minute carat weight upgrade.

To use an analogy using HWZ terms since HWZ is predominantly an IT forum - If I have the budget to choose between 2133mhz RAM or 3200mhz RAM, the increase in clock speed does not translate much into real world performance, but I might buy 3200mhz RAM just for kicks if the price difference between the two sets of RAM wasn't much.

Btw, I have refrained from commenting too much on this 0.7 carat SI2 for under $3k. But let me just say, at the end of the day, there is a reason why this 0.7 carat SI2, which apparently looks like a 1 carat simply due to a tapered ring band, is under $3k. Is it a value buy? Sure it is, depending on what your criteria is. But on an apples to apples comparison, is it fair to say that it is better value for money compared to a similar sized diamond with HCA score < 1.4 and top notch light performance as determined by ASET scope examination? Both a Honda and a Lamborghini will get you from point A to point B, but you can't say the Honda is better value for money simply because it can accomplish that while being a mere fraction of the price of a Lamborghini. To do that would be equivalent to the VTEC fanboys saying exotic cars are shite because their modded Civic can do a faster quarter mile.

At the end of the day, what is good value for money depends on what your individual criteria is.

BTW, I agree fully with what LL1986 and teqrise have said on this topic.

I agree. $100 more for IF is cheap. I'm not a big fan for super high clarity as I feel it can be overkill. It its eye clean and don't have risk of chipping, its fine by me. But if its just like $100 more, I wouldn't mind topping up for it

Tbh, I feel any diamond you buy will get the job done. Its not like she will reject your proposal just because its a lousy diamond. You can still get married without a ring. Its more of a sincerity and expression purpose of proposing with a diamond.

I bought my diamond and successfully proposed in 2012. It wasn't a super ideal cut. She still said yes and everything. But after awhile, you will notice and especially when friends around you also getting married and that's where more and more of your them will be wearing diamond rings and thats where they will inevitably start comparing. Thats when I realise that my diamond cut wasn't as good. Did my wife complain? nope. She was perfectly fine with it.

3 years later, I bought her the Brellia. As much as she nag at me why waste money, I know she was happier with it :>

 

[gabrielhrteo]

Thanks guys for all the input. Decided to go with F IF instead of G VS2. Physically, if you look hard at it enough, there's just a slight difference in size. Color wise, both looks white to each other side by side and shines the same under normal sunlight condition. At least get a small diamond but on paper it looks nicer

 

[KinoChoco]

Thanks guys for all the input. Decided to go with F IF instead of G VS2. Physically, if you look hard at it enough, there's just a slight difference in size. Color wise, both looks white to each other side by side and shines the same under normal sunlight condition. At least get a small diamond but on paper it looks nicer

Just saw your post, 100 more for IF? it's a no-brainer straight yes lol.
Altho VS and IF will look the same on naked eyes, but hell, only 100$ more for a perfect paper qualified clarity of cuz go for it.

 

[meshpenstand]

Yeh could not agree more, but lucky for me, i found a Jewelry shop that has a factory of their own, they're able to do all kinds of customisation for bracelets, wedding rings, wedding bands, heirloom, rings, Necklace. Hence shamelessly made an almost identical piece from Gold heart at 30% cheaper. please do not judge. guys will understand

Great service really. All their diamonds comes with GIA certs. Pretty good deal and my fiancee really happy.

Hope this is of great help for all the young couples out there and for whoever wants to get the best at the most reasonable price. Cutting all the agent fee (salesman commission) and have the dream piece of their own.

They have some fusion gold, they said they are the only ones in the world that has it. they say one ah do not quote me. Anyway that is the link at the bottom, you can check them out.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/Autium/about/?ref=page_internal

Nice to see something new.

 

[mero_cwj]

yah, I noticed that they're the ones who actually have the patent on purple gold which is sold by Lee Hwa!

IIRC, there's also another SG company which has a patent on a special process for making lab-grown diamonds, pretty awesome to see innovations in the jewellery industry coming from SG companies

 

[meshpenstand]

yah, I noticed that they're the ones who actually have the patent on purple gold which is sold by Lee Hwa!

IIRC, there's also another SG company which has a patent on a special process for making lab-grown diamonds, pretty awesome to see innovations in the jewellery industry coming from SG companies

ORRO sells lab grown diamond.
I saw it on XX blog... when I was searching for Zirconia...

Just wondering, what is stopping us from getting those? (lab grown diamond)
Since they are cheap, and supposedly equally good.

I have a friend who wears a 1.3 carat, and I bet most of her friends are not aware. I didn't get a good look (close up), but sitting across her, the diamond looks pretty good with good light reflection, color.

Any expert wants to answer that?

 

[SushiBoy888]

Thank you everyone for all your contributions! Not bragging, just wanted to say I'm a proud owner of the Octagon diamond today

 

[mero_cwj]

ORRO sells lab grown diamond.
I saw it on XX blog... when I was searching for Zirconia...

Just wondering, what is stopping us from getting those? (lab grown diamond)
Since they are cheap, and supposedly equally good.

I have a friend who wears a 1.3 carat, and I bet most of her friends are not aware. I didn't get a good look (close up), but sitting across her, the diamond looks pretty good with good light reflection, color.

Any expert wants to answer that?

Not an expert, but based on what I googled previously, the old technologies for creating lab grown diamonds (which is different from synthetic diamonds or diamond simulants btw) created diamonds that usually had a yellow tint, and it was almost impossible to get a diamond in the colourless or even near colourless range. If I remember correctly it was something to do with the chemicals or gases which were used in the process or something like that. High chance that I misrepresented this though

Recently there are one or two companies that pioneered a new way of creating these lab grown diamonds that can create lab grown diamonds which are more colourless.

There are also some other diamond alternatives like the Amora Gem and Moissanite gems which are silicon carbide instead.

 

[meshpenstand]

Not an expert, but based on what I googled previously, the old technologies for creating lab grown diamonds (which is different from synthetic diamonds or diamond simulants btw) created diamonds that usually had a yellow tint, and it was almost impossible to get a diamond in the colourless or even near colourless range. If I remember correctly it was something to do with the chemicals or gases which were used in the process or something like that. High chance that I misrepresented this though

Recently there are one or two companies that pioneered a new way of creating these lab grown diamonds that can create lab grown diamonds which are more colourless.

There are also some other diamond alternatives like the Amora Gem and Moissanite gems which are silicon carbide instead.

My knowledge (gain from Google university) seems to show Lab Grown Diamond is giving the real diamonds a run for their money.

http://www.diffen.com/difference/Cubic_Zirconia_vs_Diamond

Apparently, they now can attain colorless while diamond could have a tinge of yellow. While Zirconia does seem to have a shorter shelf life (since it cannot maintain its shine), there are many other alternative.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrEE9nHK6Us

I understand they have different elements and made from different compounds. Have different electrical and thermal conductivity, etc...
However, if the bottom line is the 4 C (carats, clarity, color and cut) and 1 B (budget)... they can prove to be a very good budget alternative. After all, 4 C are to ensure good quality, hence less light leakage, better bling, bigger diamond and flawless color. These results are available at a fraction of the cost using diamond alternative. The only thing one will miss out, I guess is the GIA certification.

But, I do not want to fall in the trap of recommending this instead of a real diamond. I think, this is an alternative one can consider but not definitely the best choice.

I just sometimes cannot reason why would I buy a diamond than a diamond alternative, except that I wanted to buy a diamond so I got a diamond.

To take mero_cwj bro's example, this is like a Nissan GTR... everything is excellent and can perform better than a Ferrari or Lambo.. but it does not comes with that prestige due to the price. People who wants a Ferrari, will still want to get a Ferrari.

 

[KinoChoco]

I remember i read somewhere before that genuine high quality lab grown diamonds are not really cheaper than real diamonds.

Those that are way cheaper are the low qualities one.

I could be wrong tho, never really researched much into this, afterall, i find that its kinda not right to give a 'fake' diamond for proposal just to save cost.

However i do know some ladies where they themselves requested to get fake diamond for proposal ring and take cash (10-20k) instead from their finance.

 

[meshpenstand]

I remember i read somewhere before that genuine high quality lab grown diamonds are not really cheaper than real diamonds.

Those that are way cheaper are the low qualities one.

I could be wrong tho, never really researched much into this, afterall, i find that its kinda not right to give a 'fake' diamond for proposal just to save cost.

However i do know some ladies where they themselves requested to get fake diamond for proposal ring and take cash (10-20k) instead from their finance.

I am really taking the devil's advocate role here..

Why think of it as a "fake" diamond when you can think of it as a genuine Moissanite? Farm grown chickens are never seen as a "fake" to Kampung chicken. Or, Titanium is never seen as fake to stainless steel (I assume the popular usage of titanium comes after the popular use of stainless steel.) They are of different elements, which are used in similar situation (although titanium is more expensive).

I must stress again, I am just examining the reason why we are buying diamonds over the "fakes" diamonds. Not recommending or encouraging anyone should buy one over the other.

I do not see an obvious reasons not getting the cheaper alternative, could it be all marketing image? If we really compare the pros and cons, could diamond put itself up in the front? I think that is the question, I am really asking. Why, diamonds?

 

[mero_cwj]

Hey pause abit ah, I think it might be useful to first set out the different types of lab-grown/man-made/synthetic diamonds and diamond simulants.

Lab-grown/man-made diamonds are essentially diamonds which are chemically identical to naturally-formed diamonds (e.g. carbon).

All methods of lab-grown diamonds (if I'm not wrong), involve building upon a tiny diamond seed to "grow" a larger synthetic diamond.

Previously, most lab-grown diamonds were made using the high pressure, high temperature process (HPHT). I quote from the GIA website since they have a nice description already:

HPHT SYNTHESIS

HPHT diamond growth takes place in a small capsule within an apparatus capable of generating very high pressures. Within the capsule, diamond powder starting material dissolves in the molten metal flux, and then it crystallizes on the seed to form the synthetic diamond crystal. Crystallization occurs over a period of several weeks to a month or more to create one or a few crystals.

HPHT synthetic diamond crystals typically show cubic faces in addition to octahedral ones. Because the shapes of natural and HPHT synthetic diamond crystals are different, their internal growth patterns also differ dramatically. These growth patterns can be among the most reliable ways to separate them.

The resulting faceted synthetic gems often exhibit visual features such as color distribution, fluorescence zoning, and graining patterns related to their cross-shaped, growth-sector structure, as well as the presence of occasional dark flux-metal inclusions. In some cases the material exhibits persistent phosphorescence after the ultraviolet lamp is turned off. These synthetic diamonds can be positively identified using laboratory techniques such as visible and photoluminescence spectroscopy.

Most HPHT-grown crystals are yellow, orangy yellow, or brownish yellow. Almost all are type IIb, which is rare in natural diamonds.

Creating colorless HPHT synthetics has been challenging, as modifications to growth conditions and equipment are necessary to exclude nitrogen. In addition, growth rates for high-purity colorless diamond (type IIa or weak type IIb) are lower than for type Ib synthetic diamond, necessitating longer growth times and greater control over the temperature and pressure conditions. While it has traditionally been difficult to grow high-quality colorless HPHT crystals, recent developments have produced crystals sufficient for faceted stones over 10 carats in weight (Large Blue and Colorless HPHT Synthetic Diamonds, Lab Notes, Gems & Gemology, Summer 2016, Vol. 52, No. 2).

The addition of boron in the growth system results in blue crystals. Other colors—such as pink and red—can be produced by post-growth treatment processes that involve radiation and heating, but they are less common.

Recently, companies have started to synthesise lab-grown diamonds using the chemical vapour deposition process.

From GIA as well:

CVD diamond growth takes place inside a vacuum chamber filled with a carbon-containing gas, such as methane. A source of energy—like a microwave beam—breaks down the gas molecules, and the carbon atoms are attracted downward to flat diamond seed plates. Crystallization occurs over a period of several weeks to create a number of crystals at the same time. The exact number depends on the size of the chamber and the number of seed plates. The tabular crystals often have a rough edge of black graphite. They often also display a brown color that can be removed by heat treatment prior to faceting for gem purposes.

Most CVD crystals are brownish or grayish, but if a tiny amount of nitrogen or boron is introduced into the chamber, yellow, pink-orange, or blue crystals can be created. Colorless crystals are easier to produce with this method, but they require a longer time to grow. Most of the CVD-grown colorless material on the market is believed to have been brown crystals decolorized by HPHT annealing. CVD synthetic diamonds are most commonly type IIa.

CVD synthetic diamonds have different gemological properties than HPHT-grown material. They tend to display even coloration and banded “strain” patterns when observed between crossed polarizing filters, and they are of high clarity with few, if any, tiny dark carbon inclusions.

Like HPHT synthesis, CVD synthesis continues to improve and allow manufacturers to offer larger sizes and improved color and clarity (Recent Advances in CVD Synthetic Diamond Quality, Gems & Gemology, Summer 2012, Vol. 48, No. 2).

GIA recently tested two large CVD synthetic diamonds weighing 2.51 and 3.23 cts, the largest CVD-grown diamonds GIA has examined to date (Two Large CVD-Grown Synthetic Diamonds Tested by GIA, Lab Notes, Gems & Gemology, Winter 2015, Vol. 51, No. 4).

Lastly, there are diamond simulants, which are gems which look like diamonds but do not have the same chemical composition as diamonds. These are gems like the Amora Gem and Moissanite, which I have mentioned are silicon carbide, as well as much cheaper simulants like cubic zircona.

From GIA:

While the appearance of diamond simulants is similar to that of natural diamonds, they are not diamonds. Common diamond simulants include glass and cubic zirconia (CZ), both of which are completely unrelated to diamond at the atomic level.

Simulants are, of course, less expensive than the real thing. They allow consumers to enjoy the flash and dazzle of diamond-like jewelry and to inexpensively compliment the latest fashion trend. But no matter how convincing the illusion, all diamond simulants have optical and physical characteristics that can be identified by a trained gemologist.

OK now onto price. The reason why lab-grown diamonds are rather expensive (usually still about half the price of a naturally-formed diamond) is because the process is expensive, both because of the technology involved as well as the time period required to "grow" the diamond in the lab.

 

[meshpenstand]

Thanks mero_cwj for the detailed reply.

but that does not explain why we should go for real diamond. (since Lab Grown diamond are similar, if not close to identical to a real diamond at 50% of the price.)

Or, a diamond stimulant which could be 5-10% of the diamond price. Since, it would be hard to tell under naked eyes. Since I remember someone commented that JP tends to push for attributes that is not visible to naked eyes. This could even be a better deal!

I personally attribute it to preference, but do want to point out to brothers with budget constrains that this could be a viable option. (I am not in no way associate to the diamond or stimulant industry)

 

[mero_cwj]

I think that customers (in general globally, not specifically in SG) are gradually becoming more open to the idea of buying lab-grown diamonds, which is one reason why GIA started offering grading for synthetic diamonds.

But as we have all heard so many times, the demand for diamonds is one that is created predominantly by marketing, which by now is so ingrained that it is self-fueling already. In that sense, the marketing for lab-grown diamonds has only just started to chip away at the dominant position that the big players have for naturally formed diamonds. I think one big factor was the whole eco-friendly movement and the desire of certain consumer segments to move away from the generally more environmentally-destructive and sometimes ethically grey traditional methods of mining for diamonds. But it's going to take more time for the companies marketing lab-grown diamond to gain more traction in market share. Plus the technology for making lab-grown diamonds which can compete with naturally formed diamonds in terms of colour grading is relatively new (and expensive), so the uptake hasn't been great. I think there are only a couple of online retailers selling CVT diamonds at this point of time.

That's my take for lab-grown diamonds at least. It's a whole different thing for diamond simulants, since they are not real diamonds, merely gemstones cut from other minerals which look like diamonds. There's a real stigma there so I think it is unavoidable that people will not get these for an engagement ring. But just thinking out loud, if my girlfriend would accept a diamond simulant like cubic zircona, there isn't really anything standing in the way to propose using other gemstones or to dispense with the need for a gemstone altogether, since it is implicit that she doesn't link a proposal with the requirement for any gemstone on a ring. Arguably, a simple band would do as well, or perhaps not even necessary, as was the case before the De Beers marketing success when couples simply exchanged vows and wedding bands without any norm of an engagement ring.

 

[sugaricing83]

Thanks mero_cwj for the detailed reply.

but that does not explain why we should go for real diamond. (since Lab Grown diamond are similar, if not close to identical to a real diamond at 50% of the price.)

Or, a diamond stimulant which could be 5-10% of the diamond price. Since, it would be hard to tell under naked eyes. Since I remember someone commented that JP tends to push for attributes that is not visible to naked eyes. This could even be a better deal!

I personally attribute it to preference, but do want to point out to brothers with budget constrains that this could be a viable option. (I am not in no way associate to the diamond or stimulant industry)

In the previous thread i did suggest to someone here who has a budget of $1k to get lab diamond instead. But someone else commented that it's not so nice given that lab diamonds are like fake diamonds. Guess it shows that debeers marketing is working.

If you see those angmoh forums, a lot of them own moissanite diamonds and all super big one.. Like 1.5 carats and above. If you want ring-envy, then i think its ok to go for diamond simulants/lab grown diamonds, most people care about how big your diamond is, rather than the colour and clarity. But too big will look fake.

 

[cannot.remember]

Hello diamond gurus! Would like your opinions on the rock I've chosen. Should I be worried about the inclusions? There seems to be a lot but given that its a VS2, it should be ok?