[ROTK] Wei, Wu, Shu

[itedino]

Yes. I agreed 3 parties rulez. Each safeguard our interest and scrutinise each other.

 

[EvilZombie]

tldr in the end Wei still rule all

 

[Paull33lampard]

they were actually not in balance
shu and wu had to join forces against Wei
Even so, shu and wu had a hard time, reason is because wei was stronger than wu and shu joint together since wei had more population, more resources and stronger armies

however, wei couldnt invade them successfully because shu was protected by mountains and narrow valleys where they could guard and ambush easily

wu on the other hand had wide rivers and water bodies which was a natural defense against enemies

Thanks for the details! So Wu and Shu actually joined forces to repel Wei because Wei is invading them? Or Wu and Shu also have ambitions to conquer? I think from the shows, it always portray Wu as being happy with their territories and just commit to Han dynasty. Shu was relatively smaller and their reason for attack was to prevent Cao Cao from harming the Han emperor?

 

[upslorry]

I see. So initially Cao Cao just wanted to control Han but did not proclaim himself as emperor. After he passed on, his son wanted to be emperor.

So it's still the best scenario when the 3 parties are in place, checking each other to ensure the Han dynasty remains?

in fact in the later years of three kingdom, both three kingdoms declared as emperor

Wei's Cao Pi declared himself emperor
Shu's Liu Bei under the advice of his ministers, seeing that Wei declared emperor, was forced to declare emperor to match their power, as he was the distant relative of old emperor
Wu's Sun QUan, under pressure, also declared emperor

 

[Paull33lampard]

Sima clan conquered Wei first from internal, then invaded Shu, and after that defeated Wu

Understand now. No wonder they say 司马昭之心，路人皆知... It's a power struggle starting internally from Wei from the Sima! Did Sima Zhao control Cao Cao's son? Similar to what Cao Cao did - controlling the Han emperor previously?

 

[upslorry]

Thanks for the details! So Wu and Shu actually joined forces to repel Wei because Wei is invading them? Or Wu and Shu also have ambitions to conquer? I think from the shows, it always portray Wu as being happy with their territories and just commit to Han dynasty. Shu was relatively smaller and their reason for attack was to prevent Cao Cao from harming the Han emperor?

Actually all three had ambitions to conquer
Wu wanted to use Shu (joint forces) to fight back Wei then if possible to destroy Wei then they will destroy SHu
But Shu's Zhuge Liang smart enough to know this, so they joint forces with Wu first to fight back Wei at Battle of Chi Bi, then they blocked off Wu

Later on Wei invaded again
Wu's ZHou Yu wanted to use the chance to push SHu back to the West, so pretend to join forces with Shu again, but enter SHu's borrowed territory of Jing ZHou, wanted to use the chance to re-take Jing ZHou

But Shu's ZHuge Liang use Wei's invading forces to lure Wu into both fighting each other then later fend off Wu

from there the balance of three kingdom started

 

[Paull33lampard]

they served a common Han Dynasty as a pretense to gain power
in those days, rallying for the old Han emperor gains the power and support from the people

but they all were not interested in serving Han at all, aside from Shu's Liu Bei who was the distant relative uncle of the old Han emperor
He claimed he wanted to restore Han

Your information is from original San Guo Zhi right? The shows are from yan yi which is more entertaining and it portrays Liu Bei and Sun Quan as loyal subjects to Han whereas Cao Cao to be more ambitous.

 

[cryptocraft]

Understand now. No wonder they say 司马昭之心，路人皆知... It's a power struggle starting internally from Wei from the Sima! Did Sima Zhao control Cao Cao's son? Similar to what Cao Cao did - controlling the Han emperor previously?

Sima dynasty imploded with the war of the 8 princes then later kanna invaded by FT ...

 

[tissuepaper]

in the end sima yan will unite them all

 

[Paull33lampard]

Sima dynasty imploded with the war of the 8 princes then later kanna invaded by FT ...

Their dynasty also ended from internal power struggle rather than external invasion?

 

[cryptocraft]

Their dynasty also ended from internal power struggle rather than external invasion?

Internal power struggle weakened them and kanna invaded by FT. Both contributed to the short dynasty.

 

[Paull33lampard]

Actually all three had ambitions to conquer
Wu wanted to use Shu (joint forces) to fight back Wei then if possible to destroy Wei then they will destroy SHu
But Shu's Zhuge Liang smart enough to know this, so they joint forces with Wu first to fight back Wei at Battle of Chi Bi, then they blocked off Wu

Later on Wei invaded again
Wu's ZHou Yu wanted to use the chance to push SHu back to the West, so pretend to join forces with Shu again, but enter SHu's borrowed territory of Jing ZHou, wanted to use the chance to re-take Jing ZHou

But Shu's ZHuge Liang use Wei's invading forces to lure Wu into both fighting each other then later fend off Wu

from there the balance of three kingdom started

Yeah this is quite commonly known and also in the movies. Zhou Yu was also wary of Shu getting too strong. I think Cao Cao wants to wipe off everyone at 1 go in Chi Bi as he committed such a big army for that battle... Huang Gai, the mole from Wu played a big part in that battle

 

[upslorry]

Understand now. No wonder they say 司马昭之心，路人皆知... It's a power struggle starting internally from Wei from the Sima! Did Sima Zhao control Cao Cao's son? Similar to what Cao Cao did - controlling the Han emperor previously?

First SIma Yi ursurped military power from internal
from then on the Cao clan's feared him
After SIma Yi passed on,his sons Sima SHi and Sima Zhao, both had extreme power in the courts

Sima Shi removed the Cao Rui emperor and installed a teen Cao emperor Cao Fang
after shima shi died, Sima ZHao removed the emperor again and installed another teen emperor Cao Mao, when the emperor Cao Mao rallied an army to fight back, his plan was found out and he was killed. IMagine Sima Zhao killed an emperor. Later install another emperor again


SIma Zhao later died and his son SIma Yan took over, that was when he attacked Shu and then defeated Wu

 

[Paull33lampard]

Internal power struggle weakened them and kanna invaded by FT. Both contributed to the short dynasty.

After Wei conquered Wu and Shu, who were the FTs of that time?

 

[upslorry]

Your information is from original San Guo Zhi right? The shows are from yan yi which is more entertaining and it portrays Liu Bei and Sun Quan as loyal subjects to Han whereas Cao Cao to be more ambitous.

this info is largely on Yan Yi
But Yan Yi is almost the same as San GUo ZHi
I do know some about San Guo ZHi also

 

[Paull33lampard]

First SIma Yi ursurped military power from internal
from then on the Cao clan's feared him
After SIma Yi passed on,his sons Sima SHi and Sima Zhao, both had extreme power in the courts

Sima Shi removed the Cao emperor and installed a teen Cao emperor
after he died, Sima ZHao removed the emperor again and installed another teen emperor, when the emperor Cao Mao rallied an army to fight back, his plan was found out and he was killed. IMagine Sima Zhao killed an emperor. Later install another emperor again


SIma Zhao later died and his son SIma Yan took over, that was when he attacked Shu and then defeated Wu

Wu / Shu, 1 of them surrendered and open the gates to Wei army right?

 

[upslorry]

Their dynasty also ended from internal power struggle rather than external invasion?

Sima clan established Jin Dynasty, but in the later years the whole dynasty slacked and was invaded by the Hu race from the North
That was the famous Wu Hu luan Hua
五胡乱华

inwhich five armies of Hu invaded the northern china each of different tribes
匈奴、鲜卑、羯、羌、氐

 

[cryptocraft]

After Wei conquered Wu and Shu, who were the FTs of that time?

Wu huan, xian Bei etc ancestors of Genghis khan hahaha

 

[Paull33lampard]

Sima clan established Jin Dynasty, but in the later years the whole dynasty slacked and was invaded by the Hu race from the North
That was the famous Wu Hu luan Hua
五胡乱华

inwhich five armies of Hu invaded the northern china each of different tribes
匈奴、鲜卑、羯、羌、氐

The 5 Hu collaborated to invade? I thought xiongnu was eliminated during the han wu di era when he managed to consolidate the Han dynasty?

 

[Paull33lampard]

Wu huan, xian Bei etc ancestors of Genghis khan hahaha

Haha, these FTs are very fierce!!! After invasion, they started their own dynasty I suppose?