[ROTK] Wei, Wu, Shu

[Paull33lampard]

During dong zhou era, cc as a young man tried to assassinate him coz he is inspired to serve Han, led ppl out from e darkness after suffered so much due to the constant wars..
He decide to raise his own clan n ppl who r closed to him like his bro n relative join his for his cause. As a young man with no big name, other wont join him n fight for his cause.
However as his prestige grow, he able to attract more talent to work with him. On e other hand, his inspiration of serving han etc also slowly corroded as he desired more power n gain more land.
CC encountered liu bei n he was stunned. Lb idea n appoach was a big threat to cc. During 煮酒论英雄， cc confess lb is a real hero n e real rival to him.
He dont dare to kill lb directly as it may lost ppl trust n prestige. Thus he "capture" lb as wat he did for han emperor.
Luckily lb "escape" using e excuse to go war on behalf of cc.
When cc is so strong, his advisers like jia xue advised him to take up e throne himself but cc stated it is easier to control 1 than be 1.
Cc is a good eg of a quote from dark knight. Either u die a hero or u see urself become a villain.

Is there anywhere that states how Cao Cao sees Sun Quan?

 

[cryptocraft]

During dong zhou era, cc as a young man tried to assassinate him coz he is inspired to serve Han, led ppl out from e darkness after suffered so much due to the constant wars..
He decide to raise his own clan n ppl who r closed to him like his bro n relative join his for his cause. As a young man with no big name, other wont join him n fight for his cause.
However as his prestige grow, he able to attract more talent to work with him. On e other hand, his inspiration of serving han etc also slowly corroded as he desired more power n gain more land.
CC encountered liu bei n he was stunned. Lb idea n appoach was a big threat to cc. During 煮酒论英雄， cc confess lb is a real hero n e real rival to him.
He dont dare to kill lb directly as it may lost ppl trust n prestige. Thus he "capture" lb as wat he did for han emperor.
Luckily lb "escape" using e excuse to go war on behalf of cc.
When cc is so strong, his advisers like jia xue advised him to take up e throne himself but cc stated it is easier to control 1 than be 1.
Cc is a good eg of a quote from dark knight. Either u die a hero or u see urself become a villain.

cow cow ... 乱世英雄 or 奸雄?

 

[Paull33lampard]

ok , he did submit to the rulership of Wei when Cao Pi declared emperor
At that point of time, Wu and SHu alliance was broken after Wu killed Guan Yu and Shu hated Wu

So Wei forced Wu to decide whether they accept Cao Pi as emperor
Shu was hostile with Wu, and in alliance with Wei they were forced to either 1. accept Cao Pi emperor, 2. SUn QUan himself declare emperor and face attack of Wei and SHu 3. Continue accepting Han dynasty empire and face the attack of Wei

so Sun Quan accepted 1. cos that was the only way out
true it was a short period of time

but he also didnt really willingly be accept the emperor Cao Pi, cos after Liu Bei declared emperor, Sun Quan declared himself emperor

How was the military strength of each party during that time? Wei should still be strongest I believe. Has Shu overtaken Wu?

 

[Paull33lampard]

To answer directly, I think RoTK cannot really be used to compare to modern times. Those days, the emperors and countries are not so sovereign like today. The further they are from the emperor (distance), the less loyal they are.

Also, jingzhou non-stop being fought over and pwned, I don't think anyone can be happy at all. The novel say the people are happy, but IRL, I think the ppl of jingzhou probably suffer the worst.

Also, out of all 3 kingdoms, all are bad. Cao Cao is bloodthirsty and underhanded. Liu Bei is the biggest hypocrite and power hungry. Probably only Wu/Sun Quan want to protect their people and culture, and even then, they're like sinkies, too passive to do anything that doesn't benefit them immediately.

In the end, everyone suffer.

I think that time is when the emperor is good, life is good. There are some outstanding single-dynasties where life is great, like Han, Tang and Ming.

You are not the 1st person who mentioned Liu Bei is a hypocrite. On San Guo Yan Yi, he is being praised as a hero though. So you feel he is like his ancestor Liu Bang?

 

[cryptocraft]

You are not the 1st person who mentioned Liu Bei is a hypocrite. On San Guo Yan Yi, he is being praised as a hero though. So you feel he is like his ancestor Liu Bang?

cos sgyy, wich is derived from sgz, is written by a shu sympathizer ...
and at the same time a jin subject. so yea, can guess why cow cow is vilified.

 

[Paull33lampard]

cow cow ... 乱世英雄 or 奸雄?

This is an interesting one... Some feel he is good and his son is the one who destroyed the country. Some feel his way of getting what he wants is inhuman...

 

[upslorry]

How was the military strength of each party during that time? Wei should still be strongest I believe. Has Shu overtaken Wu?

At that time
Shu was almost the same as Wu but territory was a abit smaller because they lost a large part of Jing Zhou to Wu
Wei still strongest, but the reason they didnt attack alot cos of few major reasons,

1. Cao Pi was the new emperor and Cao Pi wasnt a military person and didnt have ambition as much as his dad

2. The three kingdom keep changing alliance, when Wei attack Wu, Shu ally with Wu
when Wu attack Shu, Shu ally with Wei,
when SHu attack Wu, Wu ally with Wei

when Wei invade again, SHu and WU ally

there was no way out of this

 

[cryptocraft]

This is an interesting one... Some feel he is good and his son is the one who destroyed the country. Some feel his way of getting what he wants is inhuman...

劉備借荊州——有借無還

 

[upslorry]

You are not the 1st person who mentioned Liu Bei is a hypocrite. On San Guo Yan Yi, he is being praised as a hero though. So you feel he is like his ancestor Liu Bang?

actually Liu Bei was abit unlike Liu Bang, Liu Bang was ruthless after he became emperor, killed / fired his generals who helped him become emperor for fear of them taking his throne

Liu Bei wasnt able to take care of his generals and territories, he kept losing and he kept running away from enemy most of his career

and he was successful because his generals support him and helped him established his kingdom in Shu of West

 

[ranma21]

Is there anywhere that states how Cao Cao sees Sun Quan?

I cant remember if cc comment toward sq in e novel.
To b fair to cc, he is bz or more focus on campaign toward northern. During e 煮酒time, sq is still young n his elder brother sun ce is just start off his own clan or still under yuan shu clan..

Cc spent most of his adult life on e northen campaign where horse warfare n infantry is their expertise.. All this was shown after cc got jing zhou so easily but kept lui biao. Unloyal followers for navy warfare when cc emphasized alot on his character of his main generals.

 

[ranma21]

You are not the 1st person who mentioned Liu Bei is a hypocrite. On San Guo Yan Yi, he is being praised as a hero though. So you feel he is like his ancestor Liu Bang?

I think that is e beauty of rotk. There is no pure good or evil. They are men who hav their inspiration n have all sort of appoach to get their target.

I believed why game of throne is so popular is also there isnt any character who is pure hero or villian..

Is lb a hypocrite? Is cc a 奸雄？ up to u to decide.

 

[HeadQuarters]

SDP Lai liao!

 

[upslorry]

Is there anywhere that states how Cao Cao sees Sun Quan?

Cao Cao actually only sees Liu Bei as the major threat
cos he see Liu Bei have ambition and really know how to jump from one ally to another to establish his own kingdom
earlier on in the beginning when Liu Bei lost he submit under Cao Cao, Cao Cao see him as threatening because of Liu Bei's history of jumping ship


the rest like SUn Quan he dont really care
Cao Cao most interested to wiping all of them out

 

[Paull33lampard]

actually Liu Bei was abit unlike Liu Bang, Liu Bang was ruthless after he became emperor, killed / fired his generals who helped him become emperor for fear of them taking his throne

Liu Bei wasnt able to take care of his generals and territories, he kept losing and he kept running away from enemy most of his career

and he was successful because his generals support him and helped him established his kingdom in Shu of West

Both of them have charisma to attract loyal subjects to join and stick through thick and thin. TV shows like to praise Liu Bang and put the blame on his wife Lv Zhi for killing the generals. Zhang Liang was smart to run away... As for Liu Bei, perhaps if he had enjoyed success like Liu Bang, he might kill his generals too?

 

[upslorry]

Both of them have charisma to attract loyal subjects to join and stick through thick and thin. TV shows like to praise Liu Bang and put the blame on his wife Lv Zhi for killing the generals. Zhang Liang was smart to run away... As for Liu Bei, perhaps if he had enjoyed success like Liu Bang, he might kill his generals too?

Liu Bei didnt lived that long so nobody can verify that

 

[cryptocraft]

Both of them have charisma to attract loyal subjects to join and stick through thick and thin. TV shows like to praise Liu Bang and put the blame on his wife Lv Zhi for killing the generals. Zhang Liang was smart to run away... As for Liu Bei, perhaps if he had enjoyed success like Liu Bang, he might kill his generals too?

He already did, to kill off guan yu, put him at the frontier to play with wei and wu.

go after wu get people to assassinate zhang fei.

after get yizhou, zgl become backbencher and use fa zheng/pung tong ...

 

[Paull33lampard]

He already did, to kill off guan yu, put him at the frontier to play with wei and wu.

go after wu get people to assassinate zhang fei.

after get yizhou, zgl become backbencher and use fa zheng/pung tong ...

You mean these are all in his plans??? This is something very new! They are sworn brothers!

 

[Paull33lampard]

Cao Cao actually only sees Liu Bei as the major threat
cos he see Liu Bei have ambition and really know how to jump from one ally to another to establish his own kingdom
earlier on in the beginning when Liu Bei lost he submit under Cao Cao, Cao Cao see him as threatening because of Liu Bei's history of jumping ship


the rest like SUn Quan he dont really care
Cao Cao most interested to wiping all of them out

If Sun Quan is as ambitious as Zhou Yu, then the whole storyline will be very interesting!

 

[upslorry]

He already did, to kill off guan yu, put him at the frontier to play with wei and wu.

go after wu get people to assassinate zhang fei.

after get yizhou, zgl become backbencher and use fa zheng/pung tong ...

that wasnt done on purpose
zhang fei went attack on his own choice

the reason Liu Bei put Guan Yu on the front line because of enemy feared him and he was greatly trusted by Liu Bei, plus Jing ZHou where Guan Yu guarded was the main junction where Wei and Wu can attack

 

[Paull33lampard]

SDP Lai liao!

This is a simple thread brother