[Skincare] Everything Sunscreen

[Renzokukenz]

Then it is pretty simple, that would mean that you can skip derivatives and jump towards direct L-Ascorbic Acid

I think you should get either the
(1) 100% L-Ascorbic Acid Powder
or
(2) Ethylated Ascorbic Acid 15% Solution

Unlike other Vitamin C derivatives, this ethylated form acts directly like Vitamin C, is closer in molecular weight to actual Vitamin C which allows for faster visible results, and offers a much better stability profile than any known direct-acting form of Vitamin C.

I will be switching to the powder when my Ethylated Ascorbic Acid 15% Solution finishes because 3 serums are too oily and hard to absorb. (day routine)

If you already am using a serum during daytime, I would recommend that you get the powder. So before you use your day serum, you mix some of the powder into the serum and then use it.

Make sure your serum doesn't have things that will denature Vit C though
Many people online are using (Resveratrol 3% + Ferulic Acid 3%) and mixing it with the Vit C powder, I think you should give this a shot

Alternatively, if money is not a problem for you I'll recommend that you skip TO's products entirely and use this:

https://www.sephora.sg/products/allies-of-skin-1a-all-day-pollution-repair-mask/v/50ml

because it has Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate which is apparently stronger than L-Ascorbic Acid and also Teprenone and Niacinamide, and fancy antioxidants like Astaxanthin, all in one product.

I have no experience with this brand though but if $$ is no issue might as well get a all-in-one product

 

[Wishdom]

Resveratrol 3% + Ferulic Acid 3% is a great idea!

But why not vitamin c suspension 23% with HA 2% instead of powder? The vitamin c is not a derivative and HA is a nice extra. Is it because the powder ensures the freshness at every use while serums may go stale very quickly?

I am intrigued with the powder recommendation, but I have some concerns with mixing it. The ordinary advised a quarter scoop with 5 drops of serum but we only need 2 drops of resveratrol with ferulic for it to be effective. That will mean that I need to add an extra serum to hit 5 drops. Am I correct?

Sent from Ilovennp using GAGT

 

[Renzokukenz]

Resveratrol 3% + Ferulic Acid 3% is a great idea!

But why not vitamin c suspension 23% with HA 2% instead of powder? The vitamin c is not a derivative and HA is a nice extra. Is it because the powder ensures the freshness at every use while serums may go stale very quickly?

I am intrigued with the powder recommendation, but I have some concerns with mixing it. The ordinary advised a quarter scoop with 5 drops of serum but we only need 2 drops of resveratrol with ferulic for it to be effective. That will mean that I need to add an extra serum to hit 5 drops. Am I correct?

Sent from Ilovennp using GAGT

there are some YouTubers who have had an adverse reaction with Vitamin C Suspension 23%+ HA Spheres 2% or the 30% in silicon.
Moreover, they look more like moisturizers considering they are packaged in a tube. So it would suggest that they are quite thick.
I don't have any personal experience with them though so you can give it a shot

and yes you are right because the powder is DRY, I would think they can be very active and fresh until you use them. The problem is, not knowing how much exactly of the powder to mix with the serum and the bottle of powder has a shelf life of 6 months after opening

also, I am quite kiasu
i am using in the morning 5 drops of Vit C, 4 Drops of Ferulic and 3 Drops of Pycnogenol 5%
because it is printed on the Directions that both Ferulic and Pycnogenol 5% can be mixed with other things, I mixed all 3 of them in my palm before one shot application on my face

Apply alone or after water-based serums, before oils or heavier creams. Alternatively, mix with other treatments to enhance their antioxidant capacity significantly.

anyway, they made a table about the various Vit C and their properties here:
https://theordinary.com/vitcguide
pay attention to the "Stinging" column

 

[harky]

so chim on facial care...
got all in one a not..

do anyone use DR.JART+ Cicapair series products? isit gd?

 

[ThiamWan]

there are some YouTubers who have had an adverse reaction with Vitamin C Suspension 23%+ HA Spheres 2% or the 30% in silicon.
Moreover, they look more like moisturizers considering they are packaged in a tube. So it would suggest that they are quite thick.
I don't have any personal experience with them though so you can give it a shot

and yes you are right because the powder is DRY, I would think they can be very active and fresh until you use them. The problem is, not knowing how much exactly of the powder to mix with the serum and the bottle of powder has a shelf life of 6 months after opening

also, I am quite kiasu
i am using in the morning 5 drops of Vit C, 4 Drops of Ferulic and 3 Drops of Pycnogenol 5%
because it is printed on the Directions that both Ferulic and Pycnogenol 5% can be mixed with other things, I mixed all 3 of them in my palm before one shot application on my face



anyway, they made a table about the various Vit C and their properties here:
https://theordinary.com/vitcguide
pay attention to the "Stinging" column

Do you use Peptide? I thought you would add this in your arsenal since its a good anti-aging. I'm considering if I should include it in my PM routine.
1. Toner
2. Peptide
3. Retinol
4. Niacinamide
5. Hyaluronic Acid 2% + B5
6. Moisturiser

Is this too much? I'm planning to switch out my Hyaluronic Acid 2% + B out when its finished to the Moisturiser +HA from Ordinary.

Another Qn is if I'm using Retinol on Day 1 and 2, is it too much to change it to BHA/AHA on Day 3 and 4?
On alternate nights, it will be,
1. Toner
2. BHA/AHA
3. Niacinamide
4. Hyaluronic Acid 2% + B5
5. Moisturiser

Am also considering if I shld make it easier and just use the AHA 30% + BHA 2% peeling solution as 10 mins masks, 1-2 times a week instead.

So far my skin can handle all of the chemicals. Maybe cos I have thick skin. Haha. Just trying o figure out the best combination.

PS. I tried the Shiseido Essence Milk Milk sunscreen you recommended. It works great! It doesn't have the oily feel that most sunscreen has and feels very powdery when its settled. Only minor issue I have is I feel my current mild face wash doesn't fully wash off the sunscreen at night and there's abit of residue. Will need to find a stronger face wash.

 

[ThiamWan]

I'm compiling a list of products and their PH levels. The idea is that you should apply and layer the products from PH lowest to highest on your skin. And it can explain why some ingredients won't mix well with another because of their PH level. Do correct me if there's any mistakes, and I hope others can add on to the list for everyone's benefit.

Vitamin C: PH 3.5
AHA/BHA: PH 4.5-5.5
Peptide: PH 4.5-5.5
Retinoid: PH 5-6
Niacinamide: PH 5.5-6.5
Hyaluronic Acid: PH 6.5-7.5
*Different HA from different brands can vary.
Moisturisers: PH 6.5-7

Vitamin C
- Don't mix with retinol
- Don't mix with Niacinamide (This is subjective. Some says you can mix by layering Vit C first)
- Don't mix BHA/AHA?

Retinol
- Don't mix with Vit C
- Works very well with Niacinamide
- Don't mix with other Direct Acids (BHA/ACA, etc)

BHA/AHA
- Don't mix with retinol
- Don't mix with Vit C
- Don't mix Niacanimide

*made amendments

 

[senpai4]

I'm compiling a list of products and their PH levels. The idea is that you should apply and layer the products from PH lowest to highest on your skin. And it can explain why some ingredients won't mix well with another because of their PH level. Do correct me if there's any mistakes, and I hope others can add on to the list for everyone's benefit.

Vitamin C: PH 3.5
AHA/BHA: PH 4.5-5.5
Peptide: PH 4.5-5.5
Retinoid: PH 5-6
Niacinamide: PH 5.5-6.5
Hyaluronic Acid: PH 6.5-7.5
*Different HA from different brands can vary.
Moisturisers: PH 6.5-7

Vitamin C
- Don't mix with retinol
- Don't mix with Niacinamide (This is subjective. Some says you can mix by layering Vit C first)
- Can mix with BHA/AHA? (not sure on this)

Retinol
- Don't mix with Vit C
- Works very well with Niacinamide
- Don't mix with other Direct Acids (BHA/ACA, etc)

BHA/AHA
- Don't mix with retinol
- Can mix with Vit C (not sure on this)
- Can mix with Niacanimide (not sure on this)

Bha/aha cannot layer with vit c as is exfoliate, too strong for skin

 

[senpai4]

Vit c I using innisfree brightening clay mask

 

[Wishdom]

Do you use Peptide? I thought you would add this in your arsenal since its a good anti-aging. I'm considering if I should include it in my PM routine.
1. Toner
2. Peptide
3. Retinol
4. Niacinamide
5. Hyaluronic Acid 2% + B5
6. Moisturiser

Is this too much? I'm planning to switch out my Hyaluronic Acid 2% + B out when its finished to the Moisturiser +HA from Ordinary.

Another Qn is if I'm using Retinol on Day 1 and 2, is it too much to change it to BHA/AHA on Day 3 and 4?
On alternate nights, it will be,
1. Toner
2. BHA/AHA
3. Niacinamide
4. Hyaluronic Acid 2% + B5
5. Moisturiser

Am also considering if I shld make it easier and just use the AHA 30% + BHA 2% peeling solution as 10 mins masks, 1-2 times a week instead.

So far my skin can handle all of the chemicals. Maybe cos I have thick skin. Haha. Just trying o figure out the best combination.

PS. I tried the Shiseido Essence Milk Milk sunscreen you recommended. It works great! It doesn't have the oily feel that most sunscreen has and feels very powdery when its settled. Only minor issue I have is I feel my current mild face wash doesn't fully wash off the sunscreen at night and there's abit of residue. Will need to find a stronger face wash.

You shouldn't use more than 3 serums in one routine. That's too much for the skin to absorb. I am personally not a fan of toners and moisturisers; so that's also something I will cut.

A good guideline on layering is to use the product with lightest consistency to heavier consistency. You can workaround ph by waiting between application.

As for removing sunscreen, you can look at double cleansing with an oil before a water based cleanser. The act of cleansing is the most damaging thing you can do to your skin ; instead of using one stripping cleanser, it may be more gentle to use 2 cleansers of different bases.

Good idea on using the peeling solution, that's something I am also considering.

Sent from Ilovennp using GAGT

 

[Renzokukenz]

Do you use Peptide? I thought you would add this in your arsenal since its a good anti-aging. I'm considering if I should include it in my PM routine.
1. Toner
2. Peptide
3. Retinol
4. Niacinamide
5. Hyaluronic Acid 2% + B5
6. Moisturiser

Is this too much? I'm planning to switch out my Hyaluronic Acid 2% + B out when its finished to the Moisturiser +HA from Ordinary.

Another Qn is if I'm using Retinol on Day 1 and 2, is it too much to change it to BHA/AHA on Day 3 and 4?
On alternate nights, it will be,
1. Toner
2. BHA/AHA
3. Niacinamide
4. Hyaluronic Acid 2% + B5
5. Moisturiser

Am also considering if I shld make it easier and just use the AHA 30% + BHA 2% peeling solution as 10 mins masks, 1-2 times a week instead.

So far my skin can handle all of the chemicals. Maybe cos I have thick skin. Haha. Just trying o figure out the best combination.

PS. I tried the Shiseido Essence Milk Milk sunscreen you recommended. It works great! It doesn't have the oily feel that most sunscreen has and feels very powdery when its settled. Only minor issue I have is I feel my current mild face wash doesn't fully wash off the sunscreen at night and there's abit of residue. Will need to find a stronger face wash.

I do not yet understand the mechanics of action for peptides, but it is indeed recommended. The "No brainer" set by The Ordinary includes this product called "Buffet" which is basically a peptide serum. The reason why they included it because Vit A encourages Collagen production but doesn't provide the raw material for your skin to do so, that's why they include the "Buffet" peptide serum because it will supply the peptides your skin needs to make collagen.

Vit A stimulates cells to make collagen
The Buffet provides the raw ingredients needed to make collagen

The reason why I am not using The Buffet is because I have yet to finish another serum I bought on discount

Four Serums in one routine is too much though
The Ordinary's marketing team recommends only 3 toners in one routine.
I don't know why they make the recommendations of 3 serums only but I think we should stick to this recommendation. Why would the seller ask you not to use too many of their products? They must have good reason to instead of asking you to use more and make more sales.

While skincare personalities on YouTube won't stop you from using an exfoliant with Vitamin A on alternate days (In fact, you suggesting using them on alternate days shows that you understand them instead of using them randomly), personally I will advise against it.

Why? Because Vitamin A works by speeding up skincare renewal. Rephrase that, they make your skin shed faster, faster than its typical lifespan.

Exfoliants work the same, they speed up skin cell renewal by literally scraping the top layers off.

One makes your skin shed faster, the other literally scraps off your skin.
Personally, if you do not have any skin issues, I do not see why you need to do both of them. You might end up weakening your skin's thickness. If you really are adamant about exfoliating still, I think you should not exceed exfoliating once every fortnight. That is, to use the AHA/BHA once only every two weeks and not more than that.

It just sounds like a double whammy, (speed up shedding + scraping off your skin)
Again, skincare personalities on YouTube will recommend Retinols and Exfoliatiants on alternate days. Personally, if you ask me, I will tell you not to.

Finally, I would look at this positively. Because it would mean that the sunscreen is doing its work as advertised.
Rub-resistant + Water Resistant + Aqua Booster technology and not mentioning lasting the entire day.

I do not wear make-up but I do double cleansing.
Using Bioderma Micellar Water (make sure no alcohol) to wipe off the sunscreen and then cleaning my face with a facial soap when I shower.

Bioderma Micellar Water (pink bottle) is the CHEAPEST in Venus, don't buy them from Guardian/Watson/Fairprice, it retails for $20 for 400ml in Venus. I recommend it.

 

[Renzokukenz]

Bha/aha cannot layer with vit c as is exfoliate, too strong for skin

This is correct.

 

[Renzokukenz]

I'm compiling a list of products and their PH levels. The idea is that you should apply and layer the products from PH lowest to highest on your skin. And it can explain why some ingredients won't mix well with another because of their PH level. Do correct me if there's any mistakes, and I hope others can add on to the list for everyone's benefit.

Vitamin C: PH 3.5
AHA/BHA: PH 4.5-5.5
Peptide: PH 4.5-5.5
Retinoid: PH 5-6
Niacinamide: PH 5.5-6.5
Hyaluronic Acid: PH 6.5-7.5
*Different HA from different brands can vary.
Moisturisers: PH 6.5-7

Vitamin C
- Don't mix with retinol
- Don't mix with Niacinamide (This is subjective. Some says you can mix by layering Vit C first)
- Can mix with BHA/AHA? (not sure on this)

Retinol
- Don't mix with Vit C
- Works very well with Niacinamide
- Don't mix with other Direct Acids (BHA/ACA, etc)

BHA/AHA
- Don't mix with retinol
- Can mix with Vit C (not sure on this)
- Can mix with Niacanimide (not sure on this)

The above pH is only true for The Ordinary's product.

Do know that normally there are MANY ingredients in a single product made by other brands. In their formulation, they might add stabilizers or intentionally adding other agents to adjust the pH of their products. So do not get confused by the listing of pHs on The Ordinary's site versus say another product with the same active ingredient made by another brand.

(i.e. Vit C serum from The Ordinary might have a different pH when compared to Vit C serum made by Drunk Elephant)

Final Note, do not mix BHA/AHA with Niacinamide.
UNLESS a reputable manufacturer intentionally mixes both in one product.
Formulation Science is beyond the layman like us, but because The Ordinary is basically selling all these active ingredients on their own directly, we need to have a basic understanding of their possible contradictions and err on the side of caution when mixing. This is why I threw so many disclaimers about The Ordinary prior.

~

Also ThiamWan,
I think you might be too aggressive with your skin. While it is not the first time you are using VitA/VitC/AHA/BHA, I get the vibe that you are somewhat slightly being over-ambitious.

All of them (VitA/VitC/AHA/BHA) are tough and sensitizing for the skin, and while you have been exposed to them before, when switching to a new brand (The Ordinary, etc.) it is always good to be conservative first because The Ordinary really includes a very high concentration and potency of said key ingredients. Your skin might not be used to such intensity/formulation despite having been exposed to them prior.

Don't take this wrongly, but I will not be surprised if your skin gets an adverse reaction and breakout if you do follow through with the routine you mentioned.

 

[ThiamWan]

Bha/aha cannot layer with vit c as is exfoliate, too strong for skin

You shouldn't use more than 3 serums in one routine. That's too much for the skin to absorb. I am personally not a fan of toners and moisturisers; so that's also something I will cut.

A good guideline on layering is to use the product with lightest consistency to heavier consistency. You can workaround ph by waiting between application.

As for removing sunscreen, you can look at double cleansing with an oil before a water based cleanser. The act of cleansing is the most damaging thing you can do to your skin ; instead of using one stripping cleanser, it may be more gentle to use 2 cleansers of different bases.

Good idea on using the peeling solution, that's something I am also considering.

Sent from Ilovennp using GAGT

Thanks! I've amended my list in previous post.

 

[ThiamWan]

The above pH is only true for The Ordinary's product.

Do know that normally there are MANY ingredients in a single product made by other brands. In their formulation, they might add stabilizers or intentionally adding other agents to adjust the pH of their products. So do not get confused by the listing of pHs on The Ordinary's site versus say another product with the same active ingredient made by another brand.

(i.e. Vit C serum from The Ordinary might have a different pH when compared to Vit C serum made by Drunk Elephant)

Final Note, do not mix BHA/AHA with Niacinamide.
UNLESS a reputable manufacturer intentionally mixes both in one product.
Formulation Science is beyond the layman like us, but because The Ordinary is basically selling all these active ingredients on their own directly, we need to have a basic understanding of their possible contradictions and err on the side of caution when mixing. This is why I threw so many disclaimers about The Ordinary prior.

~

Also ThiamWan,
I think you might be too aggressive with your skin. While it is not the first time you are using VitA/VitC/AHA/BHA, I get the vibe that you are somewhat slightly being over-ambitious.

All of them (VitA/VitC/AHA/BHA) are tough and sensitizing for the skin, and while you have been exposed to them before, when switching to a new brand (The Ordinary, etc.) it is always good to be conservative first because The Ordinary really includes a very high concentration and potency of said key ingredients. Your skin might not be used to such intensity/formulation despite having been exposed to them prior.

Don't take this wrongly, but I will not be surprised if your skin gets an adverse reaction and breakout if you do follow through with the routine you mentioned.

Thanks! This is very insightful. You are right. I think I am over ambitious in my routine. I'll leave out the BHA/AHA and perhaps just do the 10 mins mask once every 2-3 weeks.

I'll stick to the retinol and will alternate it with the peptide on days I'm not on retinol. Really curious on the effects of the ''Buffet''. I'm gonna try the Bioderma Micellar Water you suggested. Lazada selling the 500ml for $22.

I'm cautious on introducing new products to my regime. Like you said, just in case if any one of them sets you off, you would know which is the one. I'm buffering about 2 weeks before I try anything new.

 

[ThiamWan]

What do you think about Clinique Facewash Vit C powder?
https://www.clinique.com/product/18...-renewing-powder-cleanser-with-pure-vitamin-c

any good?

 

[Renzokukenz]

Thanks! This is very insightful. You are right. I think I am over ambitious in my routine. I'll leave out the BHA/AHA and perhaps just do the 10 mins mask once every 2-3 weeks.

I'll stick to the retinol and will alternate it with the peptide on days I'm not on retinol. Really curious on the effects of the ''Buffet''. I'm gonna try the Bioderma Micellar Water you suggested. Lazada selling the 500ml for $22.

I'm cautious on introducing new products to my regime. Like you said, just in case if any one of them sets you off, you would know which is the one. I'm buffering about 2 weeks before I try anything new.

you can use peptides and retinol on the same setting (i.e. together at the same routine)

The Ordinary packages Peptides (Buffet) with Retinol, they work synergistically together

Bioderma Micellar Water is $20 at 500ml from Venus without discount. Sorry I know i mentioned 400ml previously, I was mistaken.
You need cotton pads for Micellar water, Watson having a massive sale now so do stock up

 

[Renzokukenz]

What do you think about Clinique Facewash Vit C powder?
https://www.clinique.com/product/18...-renewing-powder-cleanser-with-pure-vitamin-c

any good?

not tried before but p[roduct philosophy and approach sounds good

if money not a problem why not?
but looks just like a more atas version of what The Ordinary is selling

 

[feralslash]

sorry if i sound noob. But the ordinary products, which are serums, and which are water-based? The guide says some to apply after water-based, and not more than 3 serums. i'm a bit confused.

 

[ThiamWan]

Came across this. 90 SPF!
http://heliocare.com.sg/product/heliocare-gel-ultra-spf-90/

What do you guys think?

 

[ThiamWan]

Came across this. 90 SPF!
http://heliocare.com.sg/product/heliocare-gel-ultra-spf-90/

What do you guys think?

There’s even oral UV protection too
http://heliocare.com.sg/product/heliocare-oral-ultra/