Stashaway discussion thread

[lovemyself123]

when is best time to divest from stashaway?

joke of a company

 

[Masters16]

I've been with SA since end 2018. Till date, my total returns are ard 3-4% annualised, though i'm not sure why the TWR is showing 30%..?? It's very mis-leading. Also my portfolio risk is at 22%, so the portfolio performance is terrible given it's ard 70% equities weighted over last 3 years. Gonna start looking outside..

 

[dappermen]

not sure why the TWR is showing 30%..??

cos u dca or u will every now& then wdrawn or topup your pf eg how could tht u invested a S$500 in March 2022 (u just placed it in compared to those u started 3yrs++) and another $1k at end 2021 be all counted as same treatmt when u do your annualization....

ref : https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...alanced-journal.6491191/page-3#post-134933354

Why TWR? - very difficult to understd though u need time-wt ret. esp if u Dca & wdraw some in betwn​

It can be so difficult to determine how much money was earned on a portfolio when there are multiple deposits and withdrawals made over time. Investors can't simply subtract the beginning balance, after the initial deposit, from the ending balance since the ending balance reflects both the rate of return on the investments and any deposits or withdrawals during the time invested in the fund. In other words, deposits and withdrawals distort the value of the return on the portfolio.
The TWR provides the rate of return for each sub-period or interval that had cash flow changes.

Examples of Using the TWR​

As noted, the time-weighted return eliminates the effects of portfolio cash flows on returns. To see this how it works, consider the following two investor scenarios:

Scenario 1 taken fr ivestopedia site​

Investor 1 invests $1 million into Mutual Fund A on December 31. On August 15 of the following year, his portfolio is valued at $1,162,484. At that point (August 15), he adds $100,000 to Mutual Fund A, bringing the total value to $1,262,484.


By the end of the year, the portfolio has decreased in value to $1,192,328. The holding-period return for the first period, from December 31 to August 15, would be calculated as:

• Return = ($1,162,484 - $1,000,000) / $1,000,000 = 16.25% but .....

The holding-period return for the second period, from August 15 to December 31, would be calculated as:

• Return = ($1,192,328 - ($1,162,484 + $100,000)) / ($1,162,484 + $100,000) = -5.56%

The second sub-period is created following the $100,000 deposit so that the rate of return is calculated reflecting that deposit with its new starting balance of $1,262,484 or ($1,162,484 + $100,000).


The time-weighted return for the two time periods is calculated by multiplying each subperiod's rate of return by each other. The first period is the period leading up to the deposit, and the second period is after the $100,000 deposit.

• Time-weighted return = (1 + 16.25%) x (1 + (-5.56%)) - 1 = 9.79%

Difference Between TWR and ROR($-wt ret)​

A rate of return (ROR) is the net gain or loss on an investment over a specified time period, expressed as a percentage of the investment’s initial cost. Gains on investments are defined as income received plus any capital gains realized on the sale of the investment.

However, the rate of return calculation does not account for the cash flow differences in the portfolio, whereas the TWR accounts for all deposits and withdrawals in determining the rate of return.

 

[x3nor_S]

Seriously their investment strategy sucks. Put in 1 year and I'm already -14% withdrawing from China Market is one of their worst decision

 

[sohguanh]

Seriously their investment strategy sucks. Put in 1 year and I'm already -14% withdrawing from China Market is one of their worst decision

Market correction come at a good time else investor dunno which robo is mediocre and which is really can make it. You are not alone. In Msia forum for which SA is available for Msians it is the same complaints as here.

 

[killachicken]

2-3 years in it and loss 10%. Luckily was just testing it out with smallish amounts

any other recommendations?

already have syfe, will probably try endow us

 

[EmPtYsOuLz]

2-3 years in it and loss 10%. Luckily was just testing it out with smallish amounts
any other recommendations?
already have syfe, will probably try endow us

I moved my remaining SA to Syfe (which I've already been on with their Eq100 and Reits portfolio)

Intending to use Syfe trade (5 free trades a month) to buy index ETFs and Berkshire

 

[Mephist0pheLes]

2-3 years in it and loss 10%. Luckily was just testing it out with smallish amounts

any other recommendations?

already have syfe, will probably try endow us

i started with SA, now im using endowus and pretty satisfied with it

 

[sohguanh]

2-3 years in it and loss 10%. Luckily was just testing it out with smallish amounts

any other recommendations?

already have syfe, will probably try endow us

Syfe are ETF and Endowus are UT. There is some differences although both is a basket of stocks represented as a single entity. Endowus funds are all dividends reinvested (if any). But their unique selling point is trailer fee rebate (used it for cash investment is good can think of this as kind of dividend if that is what you want to call) but trailer fee rebate should not be the only criteria to determine which fund is good as Dimensional funds are not bad and some funds although no trailer fee rebate their expense ratio below 1% so it is as good. Only disadvantages of Endowus is their fund selection is so little compared to FSM for e.g

 

[kelx01]

Sa shd announce last yr they have how much wdrawls!!!

They won’t dare revel such throw face numbers one la.

 

[dappermen]

Yes, just like no1 will b bothered with PFOF*, try suing them for it since some fussed so MUCH over it

if comfy, use it! if not, so be it!



* : Payment for order flow (PFOF) is the compensation and benefit a brokerage firm receives for directing orders to different parties for trade execution.

 

[reddevil0728]

Yes, just like no1 will b bothered with PFOF*, try suing them for it since some fussed so MUCH over it

if comfy, use it! if not, so be it!



* : Payment for order flow (PFOF) is the compensation and benefit a brokerage firm receives for directing orders to different parties for trade execution.

caveat emptor to everyone regarding PFOF.

Is not about suing... it's about being aware...

to people who aren't sure about PFOF.. here's some information...

layman way of putting the reason why some brokers can offer 0 commission is because instead of routing you to the demand with the best price, they route you to market makers who may sell you a share at a higher price than the best price possible, just so that they can pay the broker a fee for doing this.

maybe in small scale, it is not a biggie, but cumulatively, the effective "cost" of getting a share at a higher price despite the commission being free might just be as much as paying low commission but better fill price.

also if market maker quotes a higher price than the best price, and because ur limit price is lower than what the market maker is quoting, but higher than the best price out there. you might actually end up not filling your order

there is no free meal in this world. broker has to earn from somewhere. If there is really such thing as free meal in the world where there is no disadvantage to 0 commission brokers, then have you thought about how such broker make money?

they are for profit organisation, not a charity, if they don’t make money how would they survive?

if they can’t survive, as much as you are enjoying 0 commission trades, wouldn’t you be concern what will happen to your holdings?

i think this is something legitimate to consider about. And I’m not suggesting no to 0 commission broker. I’m suggesting, so long as you are aware of the advantages and disadvantages of each, and make a conscious decision why you wish to go for either, carry on.

If you say I have an agenda, my only agenda is to educate people by presenting the information pertaining to each.

Also, you must also understand, what you don’t see doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

It must feel good paying 0 for commission, but you might in fact be more than you should just that you don’t see it. Unless you want to live in denial?

Note that it is a SEC requirement that all orders be executed at or inside the NBBO (the national best bid / offer). The best bid is the highest bid displayed among all the exchanges and the best offer is the lowest offer displayed among all the exchanges in the U.S.

so there’s a reason why PFOF is controversial.

 

[reddevil0728]

Yawn zzzzz paper warriors writing thesis in hwz

actually what are you trying to hide? Why do you not want people to know the reason why there can be 0 commission broker is because of PFOF?

https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/syfe-trade.6672146/page-5#post-141071939
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/syfe-trade.6672146/page-5#post-141072618
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/syfe-trade.6672146/page-5#post-141073277

 

[dappermen]

There are many warriors setting up many diff accounts by the same person ,
They will only dare to stay in hwz to spam their caveat in tigers/moo thread and in all robo threads not sure for what??!
As though moo users only live in hwz??? Not fb or other social media?!!




Hi
Are u still holding to any sa pf?

They won’t dare revel such throw face numbers one la.

I think the most some still holding to their cash pf!

 

[heng_ah]

Saw the in-app SA referral banner. Dunno want to laugh or cry.

"Give the gift, share with your love one....." only do it if you hate them so much! LOL

 

[dappermen]

true!!!! I tot the banner was out sometime ago? which is why I hardly shared abt SA lately



there r many robos to choose from:

share these w frens and let them select impartially, and they are all adults too, if they need our professional advice
i alwys let the Hwz forummers, choose from a pool of competitors and they make their own judgement call

https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/robos-a-boon-or-a-bane.6444682/page-7#post-141215423

https://cdn-blog.seedly.sg/wp-conte...timate-Robo-Advisor-Comparison-Guide-2022.png

 

[Sambuca78]

My SA 36% now is -18.36% (-$574.98). Sian... How to exit like that.

 

[dappermen]

did u try qn their CIO etc in their Live youtube/sharing? what r they doing?

Dont exit for now but when exactly is the period u enter w them?

 

[Sambuca78]

did u try qn their CIO etc in their Live youtube/sharing? what r they doing?

Dont exit for now but when exactly is the period u enter w them?

Jan 2021

 

[dappermen]

ok lah now im at -3.80%, not say lose a lot.
Its only a small sum so i wanna just give it a longer time to see how it performs vs endowus (not that endowus is a lot better).

maybe another half yr n see how it does.

half yr gone, hope u r doing fine ?